The Middle Ground

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  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: I think you may be fitter than you think! Probably the 48 or so short sprints wearing flannels! Time trial: 3k, same course? 

    Slightly tired legs here after doing what I always try not to: speedwork and longer run back to back. 2 x 3 minutes off 90 seconds was step 2 of my 16 step speedwork, followed by 70 minutes off road the next day. To be fair I could have done another rep and the 70 minutes was gentle. 

    And hills are good for you, DT. Or so they say.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Alehouse - yes, I'll do the same course as last time for a direct comparison. Hopefully we don't encounter another mini heatwave! I'm keeping my fingers crossed the weather stays fair for cricket tomorrow.

    Tired legs are not always a bad sign - just have an easy day today!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Yes, easy 6k already run with my M75 neighbour. Wild, wet and windy. Now to watch the test!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Hmm, one of my miles had over 200ft of elevation gain, which didn't feel good for me!

    An arduous 6.5 hr journey home friday meant I had to pretty much much get straight out for my session which was a pyramid of 5, 4, 3, 2, 3, 4, 5 mins off 90s. 5 and 4 min at hmp coming out mid 6.30s and 3 and 2 min at 10kp coming out around 6.15. I'll take that in the circumstances. 

    Up and out at 8.30 today for 12m. Came in 7.59mm for low 140s hr. Pleased with that as was kept very easy. It'll be even easier when I get round to losing the 9lb excess baggage I'm carrying. 

    Another 35m week banked which is decent given holidays. 

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    All sounds good, DT (weight apart!)! 

    Wonder if AD is cricketing? No chance of that here: pouring yet again and I actually shortened today's recovery run due to the precipitation! Yesterday saw 88 minutes easy running, largely off road; 80 minutes of the 88 were wet! Almost cross country under foot for a fair amount of the time, and certainly cross country weather. 

    55.5k for the week; 11 of the last 14 weeks have been over 50 km. Consistent consistency! And gradually being progressive with the quicker stuff. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Hi both.

    Yes, cricket on Saturday as we were lucky to dodge the showers.

    Long run yesterday evening of 6.5 miles, to bring weekly mileage to 21. Looking to have a quieter few days and then target a 3k TT later in the week, as mentioned a few days ago.

    It definitely felt very autumnal running last night - won't be long until the gloves and long sleeved tops have to come out again!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    I have had gloves and long-sleeved tops on most days, AD! And often a waterproof! 

    Step 3 (part 1) of my 16 part speedwork this morning: 5 x 30 secs uphill off one minute jog recovery; step 3 (part 2) hopefully later in the week which is 3 x 3 minutes off 2 mins walk/jog recovery.

    Look forward to hearing about the TT!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    I would have welcomed a waterproof during the last mile of my run last night!

    Due to other commitments and a poor weather forecast, I'm having to do my TT tonight rather than later in the week when I had originally planned. Did 13.21 last time in a heatwave, so hoping to knock 20-30 seconds off that tonight.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Keep us posted, AD!

    Another soaking this morning! Was going to do my step 3 part 2 of speedwork but it really wasn't appropriate in the conditions. No worries!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Nice consistency, Alehouse.

    I have so far avoided the worst of the weather. Monday was 4m recovery then spin in the evening. Yesterday was due to be my first proper interval session since March, 8 x 1k. However the weather forecast led to that moving to Friday and Fridays 7m progressive moving to yesterday. I fell lucky in that I got a load of work done first thing so was waiting on responses mid morning, then the weather briefly cleared around 11 so just went out then. I like this working from home business! Followed it with my first bodypump since March later in the day.

    Again today, I worked my calendar so that I went over and did a  spin class at 10.45 as today was a non run day. I am finding that without the accumulated fatigue of lots of running (and probably the 8 weeks sat in my garage on my turbo) I am really able to hit these spin sessions pretty hard.

    Off out tonight for food and drinks to get a little fatter. This eat out scheme needs to end!! Just an easy 6m run tomorrow.

    Good luck in the TT, Andrew.


  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Good planning DT, working from home does have its advantages!

    Time trial went significantly better than expected- 12.21, a whole minute quicker than a month ago! 

    Not sure the heat last time out would have added 20 seconds per km, but maybe it did? Anyway, it gives me food for thought and some drastically updated training paces!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited August 2020
    That's great, AD! In a race you should be looking at sub 21. Keep up the good work! Km splits?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    First mile 6:49, next 0.86 at 6:35 pace I think. 

    I’ve looked back and the last time I ran a 3k that quickly I had just done a 45 min 10k, so I think I’m in better shape than I realised.

    Not that I have the mileage or the longer tempo training runs to run anything like that pace for 10k at the moment.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Very good stuff, Andrew. There's the combination of the months extra training and it not being ridiculously hot. 


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    First session yesterday, 8 x 1k off 90s at hmp-10kp. 

    Started off with a 4.03 but after the first one I found my stride with the rest being 3.50s and 3 40s finishing with a 3.44. 

    The 90s rest was slightly generous but a session that substantially exceeded expectation with an average moving pace for the 5m of 6.12mm. 

    Easy 12 in the morning for just over 37m week. 
  • Nice session DT - diving straight back in with 8x1k sounds hard work, but you seemed to come through it well.

    I finished last week off with a couple of easy runs in an attempt to go into this week a bit fresher. Sadly our just turned one year old decided last night would be the perfect one to keep us awake from 3.30-5am so I am not feeling at all refreshed today!

    Got an intervals session planned for this evening. New training paces kick in this week, let's see how they feel!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    well I wouldn't say it was straight in, I've done quire a few fartlek type runs building to that where I've covered 20-25 mins at that sort of effort, albeit paces haven't hugely mattered. This was just a more defined session with a more direct gauge of performance than the fartlek type work.

    Lovely 12 on sunday, just bounced along. 4m recovery yesterday then 8m over lunch as a progression run.

    I'm so pleased my kids are beyond that age now where that sort of thing happens!

  • Yes, sleepless nights are still a real risk here for the next few years I fear …..

    Did a short intervals session - running 600m intervals off 3 minute jog recoveries. Short tempo session tonight.

    I've started looking to see if there are any races which take my fancy in October/November time - not found anything yet, but will keep looking.
  • Sleepless couple of nights here...and no children in the house! My one and only race has been binned (National Vets Relays at the end of October) and can't find anything either, AD

    Seem to be running very tired at present but still clocking 50km weeks and am on my 4th week of gradually introducing quicker stuff. Heart rate  is a bit strange though: steady running and the HR seems higher than it should be for the pace; faster running and I can't get the HR as high as I would like! Resting heart rate usually ok though, as is recovery. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Maybe you just need a few days off, or just doing shorter runs, Alehouse? Just to get some mojo back?

    Tempo run last night went ok - I stupidly ended up on quite a 'lumpy' course, so the paces were a bit all over the place within the two reps but the overall pace for each mile rep was pretty much spot on target around 7.17 pace.
  • In one way the lumpier the better, AD! Trouble is the paces then become harder to get quite right! 

    Mojo is fine here! Second part of step 4 today: 2 x 4 mins off 2 mins jog recovery (plus 15 mins warm up and down). Worked hard and not too concerned that I didn't quite hit the pace that I wanted. Would have been more worried if I had come fresh to it, which I know I'm not! Longer term picture! 

    48 short sprints tomorrow, AD?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Yes, penultimate game of the season tomorrow! Forecast is dry but fairly cold again.

    Just a shorter easy run this evening, then long on Sunday.

    Although cricket hasn’t interrupted training too much this year, it will certainly be easier to focus on running in 2 weeks time once the season finishes!

    Glad to hear the mojo is still alive and well!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    The one part of very young children I don't look back on with a sense of joy is the randomness of what night time bring. 

    Hope the cricket went well, andrew. A lumpy course is OK as long as you're prepared to look at effort not pace.  Now I'm not at the office and font have access to Worcester racecourse I think my tempos will give a more realistic race help as my sessions will be on lumpier routes. I just need to accept i eont hit same paces for effort. 

    That is quite odd, Alehouse with the paces and hr. One way or another when things go that way it usually suggests a viral situation. Hope that hasn't unfolded.

    Easy half today, furthest since March. Slighth trudge at end as went out mid morning and by 1pm at finish it was warm. 

    5 x 1m off 60s Friday came out very well also at 6.23, 6.19, 6.13, 6.13 and 6.23. 

    Fitness coming back fast now it feels. 
  • Eldest starts reception today, so we had an excited early morning start to add into the nighttime waking from the baby! Zzzzzzz

    6.5 miles yesterday, brings me to 21 for the week again. In addition, 8 overs at cricket which yielded 2/15 (but a narrow loss).

    Couple of good runs to report there DT.
  • Decent figures there, AD! And 48 sprints! And gradually increase that 6.5 to 7, 7.5 etc up to around 10. Take two or three months to do it. 

    All looking good, DT

    Seem to still be running tired here, and HR slightly high when running. Resting HR is normal though, so not particularly concerned. Just over 50k last week again including two short sessions. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Thanks Alehouse - last game on Saturday, so once that is done I'll look at increasing the long run further. As it is, I'm doing them on tired legs so feel a bit of caution is wise.

    Got another interval session tonight (week two of phase 3 of the Daniels 5/10k plan) - 1k reps off 400m jog. Only two reps at the moment due to my lower weekly mileage than the plan (ie. their plan is for those doing 50 miles per week and stipulates this session as 5x1k, so on my 20 mpw I've reduced to 2 reps). Target pace is 6.45mm.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    How did the intervals go, Andrew?

    Alehouse, any improvement on the fatigue?

    I've had a decent week so far, the highlight of which was my first go at a mp/effort tempo run. These were the bread and butter of my training pre injury and was routinely doing 8-10. I always aim for an average hr of 160 on these simply because my average HR over  a mara  a is usually around 165. During Feb/March thee were coming out over 10m at around6 .30 mm for just under 160.

    My expectations were that around 6.45mm average would be a decent outcome. Mile 1 came out 6.39 and was pretty low effort so pressed on with a 6.31, 6,32 and a 6.27 for 6.32 average and 160 bpm bang on. Obviously if that were 10m the HR would have moved too high, however it'll probably take 8 weeks of gradual build up to reach a 10m tempo and over that time i'll get gradually fitter so the theory is as each week comes and the distance creeps up the pace and effort ought to stay about the same, i'll just incrementally get fitter.


    Hope was to be fully back to where I was by end of year but at current rate end of October seems not too optimistic. I need at some point to take a punt on entering a race and just accept it's a risk and if it cancels it's money I am prepared to lose.

    There's the Derby 10m mid November which is of interest as I don't feel I've ever had a solid go at a 10m race, having beaten my pb a few times with half maras then further along, the Gloucs mara late January might be a good chance to back an early GFA at least as i'll have just become a v45.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited September 2020
    Yes, difficult to make race (or parkrun!) plans at present, DT! Decent tempo!

    Yes, feeling fresher: probably due to a few nights better sleep. Back in the university's fitness suite today for the first time since early March; quiet and safe, but that is because there are no students around as yet. Then it was 2.5k warm up, 3 x 3 mins with 90 secs jog recovery, warm down. Reasonably pleased especially as it was cool and blustery. Part 2 of step 5 completed! 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Intervals went fine thanks DT - pretty much spot on paces. This session next week progresses to 3 x 800m off 400m jog, so slightly shorter reps but overall more volume.

    Second session of the week was last night - a 1.5m tempo at 7.17mm pace, followed by some 200m reps at 6.08mm pace. Hit all the paces fine, apart from the last 200m rep which was slow as I had to negotiate a sharp corner onto a main road towards the end and I had to ease off for fear of slamming straight into someone as I turned the corner.

    My new watch has HR readouts which I occasionally look at, but not religiously. Sunday's LR was 6.5 miles at an average HR of 133 which seemed very low to me, but I take as a good sign. By comparison, max HR during intervals was 161, and HR at the end of my 3k TT the other week was 189! Not sure how much I trust the readings to be honest.

    Yep, good tempo DT, and pleased to hear you are feeling fresher Alehouse.

    Got an email yesterday for an event I ran a few years ago which is taking place on 27 September. Has a 5k option, but is a bit pricey at £16. Undecided on whether to give it a shot or not.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, have you seen that even the Wrexham elite mara that was created to be covid safe has now been postponed and probably cancelled. Yes in 2 hours time I'm off to a footy match locally with up to 600 allowed in. 

    Is that wrist or chest hr? I wouldn't say £16 was too much. Problem is there has yo be a base cost, so yes you get less value from a 5k compared to a 10k but much of the event running cost is the same regardless of distance. 

    Did 6x4 min yesterday with 90s jog recovery do more a fartlek. I was on a mildly undulating course so just worked hard. Spin then this morning. 

    Having just had agreement from lufthansa that they'll refund my berlin flights (£211)  I treated myself this morning to a pair of alphafly. Managed to get on at 8am and grab a pair before they were all gone at 8.05! 
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