Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I suppose i'm usually spoilt in having an empty track, and don't need to worry about mass meets where lane 2 or beyond come in. Especially if you don't have the line painted on showing the indented start point!

    200s are much more enjoyable than 400s aren't they!
  • I will parkrun if it comes back. Scanning is essential for the Track & Trace element so I can't see them abandoning timing. I've done a couple of larger ones which had pens for expected finish time already. The (upto) 500m tolerance was always there whenever a course had to be adjusted. The crucial thing was to ensure it wasn't shorter - else too many folk get unrepeatable PBs which is demotivating. I agree that having 2nd & 3rd waves 5 minutes later with separate finish funnels would be safer & fairer for the slower runners aiming for PBs.
    I did 10K easy in to work yesterday, cycled back then got up the club for the 1st time. 2K/3x800m/2x400m with 400m walk-jog recoveries (200m between the 400's) Funny old game the 2K was slower than my recent parkrun pace & the 800s were about the same. I got a new watch (FR645M) for my birthday & this was the 1st speed session since then so it calculated my LT & also upped my VO2. Says I should be on for 39:01 for 10K! Not going to happen at Farndon which looks to be pretty undulating. The other thing it's told me is I have a very low cadence: usually 150. I imagine if I could increase leg turnover I'd be significantly quicker.
    Today I biked the 6M in then ran home the long way.  First 9.5M trotting along easily at 8:00s then 10x200m off 90s for a 1:41 HM. I was busting a gut during the efforts & almost quit after 8 so the last 2 were a bit lacklustre - albeit slightly uphill too.
  • Jooligan said:
    The other thing it's told me is I have a very low cadence: usually 150. I imagine if I could increase leg turnover I'd be significantly quicker.
    That is low but I don't buy into the cadence debate.

    My cadence is pretty much 180 and it doesn't really matter if that is flat or hilly or pretty much anything else, I just run at that cadence and if I am running fast I have a longer stride and if I am running slow I have a shorter stride. 




  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    My cadence is/was 170 spm when plodding, 180 spm when awake, 200 spm when racing at peak and 185 spm when attempting to race when clearly not up to it.

    Fastest 5000m track race (videoed) indicated 200 spm with a 5 foot stride length. Pathetic really!

    Drop to sub 200 spm with a shorter stride length and do the math. On the bike at the moment - or not depending on how long the whip lash injury takes to heal up. 

    Will be ordering a Gravel Bike later. I won't be buying the top of the range. Mid range is enough. 

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    The great news is that the latest government restrictions DO NOT affect running clubs and these new form of races we've been doing

    https://www.englandathletics.org/athletics-and-running/news/update-athletics-and-running-activity-will-not-be-affected-by-the-new-restrictions/


    I follow Nice Work who put on 100s of events, and in their covid rules, like with other organisers, with the waves etc, they also take temperatures of people.
    If you come out high, even if you're not particularly feeling ill - they'll ask you to go home!

    That definitely needs factoring in if planning one of their events a long way from home!

    Although they're battling to work out what they can put on and what they can't at the mo - must be an absolute menace of a task.
    They're talking about Sep-Nov piecing what they can together, and hoping December sees the full schedule. Fingers crossed for no further increase of issues then!


    ps first day back properly in the office, 6&4 with the latter a lunchtime, first time in 6months for that format of a double.
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    we have a  full body temp scanner that we have to walk through on the way in to the office every day. I came in fairly rinsed after a warm trail run the other day and had to go straight through. I was still well under, I think you have to be ill-ill to fail.

    be careful not to confuse your Fahrenheit and Celsius though SG  :D
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Same set up here, but the guy said go round the other entrance so my blazing post run temp doesn't set it off.
    Apparently it links to an email to some geezers who come and wander you off the premises :O

    Ahem yes.
    I'd made the presumption based off a guy I know who lives in California somewhere, often sneering at our freak heatwave recently up to 34 degrees C as not that hot, and the guy on that thread posing the question of whether he should run early when it's "cool for that area" or later when it's not so cool, but highly humid. Obvs posting a screenshot of "50" and me thinking, wow that is scorching - thinking this is why he's asking.

    It turns out it was an utterly pointless question, bearing in mind the Celsius temperature range he was agonising over was about 10-12!!

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Run cheshire who are putting on the wrexham elite race said last night that races with a valud covid approved plan would be able to carry on, that was confirmed today.
    It might be harder to get a plan signed off now, so it might still be closed off races like dorney and goodwood for a while longer.
  • Temperature scanners: we have had a face temp scanner since June. I came in at 10am having run 10M in the sun & although I was dripping in sweat I passed easily - homeostasis works well.
    Interesting PMJ but notice your cadence is around 180 so 20% higher than mine & from what you've said your speed was significantly faster than mine back in your racing days.
    Fingers crossed for the racing - If Run Cheshire can put an event on in Wrexham, which has a relatively high proportion of CoViD cases, then IoW, Dorney & Goodwood should be OK. Nothing in my inbox to suggest otherwise yet :)
    Easy double today. 6.5M commute this morning which came in sub 8 for MAF HR. I was experimenting with trying to up the cadence & it worked well. I averaged 156 but was close to 160 for the first half. It was a different kind of effort & I had to focus on turning the legs over rather than my usual lolloping style.
    This run also made my watch recalibrate race predictor again - I am in PB shape apparently B) Just need to match it's predictions which seem highly fanciful given my recent attempts at speed. I have plenty of endurance but not so much speed or speed-endurance :(
    I then cycled 10M back from work before trotting an easy 5M in the woods.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited September 2020
    Wrexham hasnt had apptoval yet, they have other races beforehand which they said they expect to continue. Would be a shame if they dont get the approval for Wrexham.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2020
    Jools - I don't put any real thought or measurement into my cadence, but like many I've heard about the figure of 180 that they class as ideal.

    So 150 sounds low for sure. I have the image of you with almost Neil Armstrong length leaps, you have so low a number :D 

    I'd be wary of artificially trying to change the way you run to increase it though.
    I remember reading a chap on another thread tried to up his cadence and promptly ended up injured.

    This does however require the background info that he was a lot more injury prone than your incredible iron man nature - with your huge length runs, back to back races, and eyewatering elevations.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    TR - the sudden change in the restrictions and then relief at things not yet changing for runners I think is a wakeup call of get races in while you can, and probably don't risk entering stuff even a month away, that doesn't have a firm refund policy.
  • I shan't be doing all my running at an increased cadence SG but I'm going to continue experimenting. Like all adjustments build it in slowly.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Ok, another 200s sesh today, as per the plan it's 10x200 but at 800 pace (as opposed to 1500 with the 16 on Tuesday)

    16 came out as 13 at 34xx and 3 at 35xx
    10 today came out the first 6 at 33xx and the last 4 at 34xx

    So that's probably what should happen - 1 second quicker for the lower rep, higher effort ones. As we all know, 1 second for a 200m can feel a real difference :D 

    In fairness, there's not a huge difference between say a 33:85 and a 34:02 for instance, but like Bus once said, you can't be "too" precise when you're relying on your eye to hand split taking type co-ordination for such a short distance, so the leading seconds is accurate enough for the purpose.

    One thing for sure, late on I certainly felt that the muscles were working - it's just a different game entirely, goodness knows how people boot 30sec 200s as reps etc.
  • Jooligan said:

    Interesting PMJ but notice your cadence is around 180 so 20% higher than mine & from what you've said your speed was significantly faster than mine back in your racing days.

    So you are saying I'm now a slow coffin dodger ;)
  • Quite swift 200's SG - I wouldn't find those easy. I do about 36's when I do my 30 x 200's - the first ten off ten secs is the hardest section!

    10 x 600 last night, out and back on path and grass over at Luton off 80. About 1.50's and felt pretty strong.

    No surprise the government haven't restricted organised sport again. I think they know quite a few would just carry on as normal anyway. Its outdoors FFS..you ain't going to catch it, lets be honest.

  • I dare say you’d still be able to run me ragged Phil.😂
    Is 10s! really worthwhile as a recovery Simon?
    Good reps SG.
    Easy day today with just 5M at lunch between the bike commute.
    Good news from Run Cheshire: the 10K is still on😃
  • Jools - Just the first 10. Then you get 20 secs for the middle ten, then a whole 30 secs for the last set!!!.
  • There's some racing going on here:

    https://activetrainingworld.co.uk/project/run-fest-at-lee-valley-27th-september-2020/

    Don't know anything about it, other than I got an email from them!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Simon - just totally different types of emphasis really. If you're doing 36s for that mad 30 sesh, I'd probably, no definitely be in the 38-40mixer.
    And vice versa, if you were doing 10-16 off 60, you'd be drilling them.

    Bus - looks like a similar style to all the races at the moment. Private/wide land, non run club organising, multiple distances. Probably fairly expensive too, £17-24 sort of mix for a mere 5k etc.

    Coped relatively well with a first full week at work for 6 months, including an actual day on site.
    Until I was due to run tonight, couldn't find my little wrist band with ICE details. So had a quick drive to the track to see if I'd lost it.
    No sign, and then found it at home under a seat - 30mins later :D  DOH!!

    Gears didn't quite feel right on the car either - so will test those properly in a couple of days, no doubt when more relaxed and hope it was something I was doing wrong!

    Still.. SAT OFF tomorrow, and Wycombe live on sky at 12.30. Good times :)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    *ifollow not sky... the sky game is in 2 weeks time.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Speed of sessions for them to promote some improvement need to be first, pitched at the correct speed.

    That said, the correct speed doesn't actually equate to an intensity where a shed load of pain or discomfort is the test that the session is deemed to be successfully executed. That's on account of the bodies ability to flood itself with natural painkilling endorphins. Pushing the effort to the extent that it hurts is pretty well the sign that the micro damage that stimulates adaptation has been over-ridden and is just damage full stop.

    A repeat performance at the same level indicates the damage is fixed. But no improvement on the session shows whatever it was, it hasn't worked.

    The session also has to be appropriate to race pace. Running hard but slower than wished for race pace doesn't work. And running way faster than race pace doesn't work either except for maybe a fast finish or most likely, surviving the too fast start.

    The hardest sessions are running faster than race pace but for distances short enough and recoveries sufficiently long enough to give the impression that next to no more physical effort is being expended than a steady run lasting an hour.

    So Simon's session of 30 x 200m is appropriate, and it works. 

    🙂

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Currently I've put running to one side for a while and put the training emphasis on the bike. That'll will have a beneficial effect. Ian Stewart after getting a bronze medal in the '76' Olympic 1500m, did a couple of years on the bike and returned to break the ten mile world record on the road, on foot.

    With a power meter on the bike I can measure exactly any improvement I now make. For the past two weeks I've been off the road with a torn shoulder/neck muscle. So instead of dealing with traffic, I've been spinning away on the indoor bike. No maximal efforts at all. Peak HR 153 bpm and usually in the 130/140 bpm range.

    First ride out yesterday, the power was right there from the off. Rode on threshold, hardly ever into oxygen debt. HR averaged 154 bpm and peaked at 173 bpm! Record average Wattage for a standard ride and easily over 3 Watts/kg bodyweight. Time around 54 minutes.

    So proves the point. You don't have to go constantly applying race efforts in training to make a performance gain. 

    Results=Proof=Results

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2020
    Quiet on here this weekend.

    Spent yesterday sneezing like mad. Probably a bit caused by having some work done at home meaning a 24hour industrial heater having been on for a whole week, and the carpets being up . A mix of dust and heat is not a superb combo for an affleeet such as I ;)

    Therefore, went off for a run with no set mileage.
    15s for last few months aren't critical with any racing to be short distances, so set off for 8-10 and see how it'd go

    Felt good, so knew I couldn't justify so little, so 13 at 7.15 felt solid in the end.


    ps SQ - you alright out there - haven't heard much for a while from you
  • Ric - The 30  x 200 was stolen from Alec Stanton (Paula's coach) at Bedford, so knew it would be a good one.

    Nice little run SG

    So Saturday = Parkrun with the kid = 32 mins, then a  3k TT, round a loop near my house. Being good, I didn't do the slope twice as that would be cheating. 9.32 in the end - possibly a little down on what I had hoped, but not too bad. 3.08,3.11,3.13 I think.

    Long run today - to 'lads and dads cricket' 15.8m, 6.49's. Felt strong, hammy and hip flexors felt great too.

    Entered the Wimbledon 3000m on 23/9 weds night, on opentrack now if anyone interested

  • I did start writing a report for my Epic bike ride but never finished it so I will jump in here with current goings on and maybe drop it in later, not that it's worth waiting for.

    Also need a read back.

    Anyway last few weeks have been really busy and I've not done much in the way of anything training wise. I did however do a triathlon at Dorney yesterday. It was nice actually, the time trial format meant swimming alone as we left 30 seconds apart so no washing machine action. Just a sprint for a bit of fun but there was some kind of u20 championship so the standard was very high, normally I'd expect to be in the first few in these mickey mouse events.

    I've barely swum this year so pootled out a 14:xx minute swim which was slower than my last Ironman swim pace by some way over 5 times the distance! Fumbled my way through transition, trying to get a new wetsuit off, I had no idea how to get the velcro stuff off! I'd bought it in the Black Friday sales and it's been in the box ever since.

    On to the bike and I was struggling big time, I've not been that well (Not Covid) so that might explain a complete lack of power on the bike, barely managed 270 watts whereas normally I'd do 330 odd for a sprint. Average speed only 24 mph again Dorney sprint normally 25-26 mph, although it's flat there's a fair few sharp turns to slow you down. Still it was one of the faster splits of the day. 

    I'd decided on the old Vaporfly 4% for the run and I'd hurriedly inserted elastic laces to save a few seconds but ironically they both came undone in the first few hundred metres so 20 seconds down the toiled there. First mile was pretty slow, partly due to the two stops but 6:07 wasn't a disaster. Haven't done much running and no brick runs so it was taking a while to warm into it and 5:55 for mile 2. Picked it up for the last mile back to the club house, the course was short but the last 0.93 of a mile was at 5:45 pace so finally got into my running. Finished 17:47 with a moving time of 17:31 so 5:58 pace. Bit crap really but good fun to have a race.

    Finished down in a lowly 16th or so with almost all of them above u20s and mostly 9-10 minute swimmers so 4-5 minute headstarts for them :-) I was the first old 40-49 bastard though.


  • Good work Reg. Yes the masters age groups are doing me no favours now, especially the v35-49 masters track age group!
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Age groups eh!

    I'll be sixty in a couple of months, which for me is incentive enough to just keep going.

    The concept of Age Grades, Good for Age and performance issues may be to the forethought of many. But how many of those simply take their ability so much for granted, that they barely recognise that for many as they get older, being able to run about or be active are impossibilities? 

    I recently had the news of the passing of an acquaintance who has just died aged 57! He'd had emphysema for some time. More incentive to look after your health.



    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    That's a harsh age range Simon! Reg, i'm sure you'll absolute annihilate it when you creep up to 50!

    Brief surprise at seeing some bloke wandering around the track who I feared was Mr kick you off the track from a few weeks ago, but it was just some geezer out for a morning walk. Why it needed to be on a track I don't know, but said hello!

    Pyramid sesh this morn
    200-400-600-800-1k and down.

    Splits as per pop up on the watch (ie no roundings)

    35-1.15-1.57-2.42-3.28-2.42-.1.57-1.13-35

    Felt the right effort level all the way through, not pushing too hard but seeing some nice reps.
    Always good to bank a sesh early mornings.
  • Stevie G said:
    That's a harsh age range Simon! Reg, i'm sure you'll absolute annihilate it when you creep up to 50!


    I've not even got to 45 yet! think I will try and pick up some M45 stuff for a couple of years first :-)

    What's that all about Si, Covid age groups for smaller fields?
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