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The Middle Ground
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Alehouse - that document looks great. Looking forward to pushing the reset button after doing this 10k and doing things properly! Why do you say 4x1k at most? When I was looking at 5k plans, most had 5k worth of distance in the speed sessions (or just shy, e.g.12x400, 6x800)- I can understand not doing 10x1k for a 10k, but why not more than 5?
Alehouse, I could open your attachment. Looks like a sensible structured build up.
Andrew, my first few half maras, my longest run in advance was 11 miles. My personal preference now is to train to 15 miles, but that is mainly to facilitate a more seamless step up to mara training.
Mussa, please don't get caught into the view that the only sessions that count are those that leave you on your arse. I quite often will have one of my weekly sessions as a progressive run of maybe 6m, where I start out at bottom end easy then work through the easy zone looking to perhaps finish with a mara pace then half mara pace mile. There is some benefit also in learning to simply be able to control and dial into certain paces and move through the gears.
The other session many find useful is to work at mara effort. In fact one of my sessions this week, as I am upping my mileage a little is 7m at mara pace. It's a decent pace to train at as you are working high end aerobic so still getting a workout, but you aren't pushing yourself like a session and don't in turn need the rest afterwards so much.
There are plenty of options to train differently and facilitate a reset of sorts.
Nice easy 14m yesterday, starting off very easy then slowly progressing it, with a slight pick up 2nd half. Managed to get the whole nearly 2 hours out in blue skies and sunshine.
Hmm, not so sure about that. 6m at threshold is pretty brutal. In fact the p and d mara schedules peak out at 7m at threshold. I think the most I've ever done at threshold is 5m. I start working at HMP and mp for longer sessions or break them up into a fartlek. A good one I occasionally do will be 1m on and 1m off alternating between threshold and mp over say 8m. You could do it for less of course. The mp bits just keep that stress on without ruining you. Or you could do 5m at tempo off 3mins at mp after each mile. Many ways of breaking it up. Or another session is switching it up and down between 10kp and hmp so working eitherside of threshold. Keep that one shorter though.
5m easy followed by 30mins very light on the turbo earlier.
Muss asked about why a max of 4 x 1k. A number of answers. In the late 70s I was involved in some research with an exercise physiologist and the short conclusion about the most effective reps for both 5k and 10k were:
1. Long reps up to 4 x 1k, with 50% recovery, running them faster than race pace by the end of the block. i.e. don't try to run them faster than race pace at the start of the block. Look at the bigger picture over time.
2. Short reps of around 200 metres i.e. approx 30 seconds. I have adapted this slightly to be on a gentle hill.
Another reason for only four is that you will be doing them on tired legs and four errs on the side of caution, not wanting to cross that line of fatigue, illness or injury.
30+ minutes banked here. A bit laboured! No rush!
Then I’m planning some base building in December and January- try to get weekly mileage to 30/32 without injury through lots of easy running and fewer sessions.
Anyway, 4 miles this evening to kick off the week.
Today, 4x1k - <span>3:43, 3:41, 3:39, 3:35. I was aiming for between 3:45-55, and didn't really mean to do the last one faster - I just really felt like I was tying up. It's funny how your perception of effort and return can be so different to the reality. Form felt smooth today, and legs felt good. First outing for my second pair of Saucony Kinvara 11s.</span>
Easy run today...but got absolutely soaked.
Yep, have been doing plenty of stretching, and did a good workout on Monday (squats, lunges, glute bridges etc.), plus 2/3 sets of clamshells every day before I run. I think I maybe got a little complacent about glute strength and that's what may have started to cause my niggles: I'm really feeling a difference now I've started doing the activation/strengthening exercises.
I've been quite enjoying running in the rain recently - it also means the only people you have to contend with are dog walkers or other runners!
Muss, when you say starting too quick, do you mean the session or the individual rep? Looking at your splits above, if they are the order in which they were run then they look nice and progressive.
Pretty much all my training is targeted to a strong finish, whether it's a tempo, a long run or other easy run. That doesn't mean smashing the back end of a long run, more to start very slow and as the body warms up just let it naturally move on so if I did a 14m run the first half might be 8.10 and the second half 7.45-7.50, so all still very much within my easy zone. It helps ingrain negative splitting for race day and it's always better to get the confidence of finishing a tempo strong, not suffering and dying in the last mile or 2.
That said, Andrew, you can afford to throw caution to the wind. It isn't t a race that you've invested time and money in, almost a parkrun on your terms. I don't see you've much to lose, but plenty to gain from smashing it. Go out at 6.40 mile 1 then let rip. If it goes wrong call it at 2m, walk away and go again next week. Sometimes we have to chance our arm to see what we really are capable of.
Did a session on Tuesday of 1m at 10kp (6.13 which is fast for my first rep in a session) followed by 6 x 800m off 1 min at 5k-10kp which were all just below 3 mins so just under 6mm pace so possibly a bit slow, however I had in the back of my mind that the round it off was a flat out mile which isn't within my comfort zone. That came out at 5.40. Never having done anything like that I didn't quite know what to expect. I had a humpback railway bridge to climb and two canal bridge to get up and over which weren't big hills by any means but trying to running at mile pace it was enough to rocket the hr. Be interested to see what I could on a track, in a race and not immediately after a session.
8m easy yesterday. Off out over lunch for 7m at mara pace. A bit reduced on my usual tempo run as I am having to run long this week on Saturday so it's all a bit truncated.
Sounds like a tough session, and a case in point for finishing strong!
Muss: I wouldn't reduce the recoveries, yet. I would try to get 4 consistently at around 3:35 before gradually reducing to say 1:45 then 90 seconds. No rush!
Pleasant 45 minutes this morning with my M75 neighbour. Big help running with someone else.
That's it, Andrew, case closed. It's eyeballs out for you! As I said, if it's going horribly wrong at say upto 2 miles there's no shame in bailing and save yourself for another day. If it starts to become a sufferfest into mile 3 then that's about right for 5k effort.
I do sometimes long to have a run with someone, Alehouse. I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I have done that in probably 3 years.
7m at 6.43mm average over lunch, so just a touch faster than my mara pb pace. Felt largely pedestrian, like I was out for an easy run which is positive.
I don't think I've hardly ever run with someone else, apart from a few months when I started running when I joined a running club (but I haven't been a member there since 2015) and did group runs.
Muss - I often set out too hard at the start of a rep too (and in races of course). Pacing does seem to be a skill that takes time to learn!
Doing a shortened threshold session tonight, as I'm on a cutback week.
It's a bit of a bummer, especially as there aren't any pools open for me to maintain fitness, and cycling will aggravate both. But it's an opportunity to get more of a consistent S&C routine going, and it could be much worse. Also it's reassuring to know that both injuries will be resolved quite straightforwardly and that I'll avoid it by managing my load better in future.
Just 2 threshold miles within my 4 miles today. First came in at 6:54 and felt like a dream, but the return of the out and back was suddenly into a headwind (which I hadn’t noticed as a tailwind in the first mile and which might explain why it felt so good!) and had some uphill sections so was a bit of a sufferfest for a 6:57 mile. Ended with a stitch and like I feel at the end of a 5k, so it was definitely harder than threshold effort.
I had a rest day yesterday and just 5 easy miles today. Came out at an 8:42 average pace and felt dead easy. Brings up 17 miles for the week, which is more of a cutback than I would normally do but I just wanted to give my knee a bit more rest this week.
Hips have been sore the last few days so have been cutting back as well. Had hoped to build a little this week but ended up with slightly less than last week. Which is sensible, also!
Muss, that's a shame. was it caused by the lunges (I don't tend to lunge as don't like them)??
Yes, hips are a complex area so always require some caution with them, Alehouse.
Ha, I get caught like that sometimes, Andrew. Cruising along thinking I must have suddenly had this massive boost in fitness to turn around and discover otherwise!!
14m easy Saturday morning then a 4m recovery sunday gave me 48 for last week. Started the week with a cold and misty 5m easy this morning.
Both groin and hip seem to be healing ok - the strengthening exercises are getting easier/less sore, and range of motion is improving slowly. Good news that pools will be open in December - some cross training could be just the thing.
Long walk for me today - 5.5 miles in about an hour and a half, with a bit of hill climbing too. It felt good to get out and about, I've really been missing the mental space I normally get from running.
Treatment seems to be rest (boo!), ice and exercises to strengthen quads and hamstrings.
I will mention to physio at next session - she had already said that if treatment didn't seem to be having an effect soon then she'd do me a referral to my doctor to get a scan or similar to check out the underlying problem.
This all seems like a groundhog day for me - every time I get a good few weeks of training at above 20 mpw in, I inevitably have some type of injury! Hence why I can never seem to progress beyond 25 mpw and why every time I get near pb fitness I can never manage to push on further.
Andrew, what routine s and c work do you do?
16 x 400m off 30s today. Started out fun, ended up savage! 30s goes very quickly when you don't want it to!