Shades Marathon Training

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  • Rcouture - Chase the Moon.
    If you feel you can run 1:40 then go for it - even if you don't get it, you'll likely get under your previous best. I'll be a way behind you, I think.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-Good luck for tonight.
    Rcouture- Is your half this weekend or next? Reading a lot about London potentially fo8ing in to tier 3 so hope not for your sake of its next week.
    Big G-Sounds like you're getting well in to Zwift,it is free for runners so might well get it myself when we get the treadmill.
    Survey done yesterday and all good for the mortgage so another hurdle done,just waiting for the full report to see if there is anything we need to look at. 
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Shades - Yes that’s exactly what I like. I am now looking for other higher heel drop shoes to rotate in with the Arahis as the ASICS gel kayanos are too firm for me. Which NB stability shoes are those? Re the race, on paper based on my training paces, mileage, heart rate etc I should be able to hit <1:40 but my concern is that I’m not sure I’m that used to suffering if that makes sense! I haven’t really pushed things on my very few races so unknown territory for me really and obviously my mainly MAF training and minimal speedier stuff doesn’t really prepare for that. 

    Ian - Yes that’s a possibility but I thought the EA rules allowed outdoor races even in Tier 3? Half is next weekend. Good news on the house moving along. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Rcouture- My mistake,yes races are allowed in Tier 3,I got confused as tier 3 competitors got told not to travel to tier 2 to race last week.
    https://www.englandathletics.org/athletics-and-running/news/guidance-update-27-november-2020/#tieroutdoor9
    I don't run to MAF but I have done very little speed training and got well under 1:40 by nearly all easy running so you can do it.If you haven't really hurt in a race then you've got even more of an upside,if it starts hurting just remember that's only your brain telling you that,your body is capable of more.Have you heard of the central governor? It explains why you feel pain before it is actually a problem,it has helped me massively in races.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Got out tonight, not sure how far but 57 minutes and it felt good, think because I wasn't trying to run through mud. 
  • Ian - That’s very encouraging to hear. I’d like to hit 1:40 as that would make it a nice round 30minute gain since my first half a year ago. Yes I have heard of the central governor principle. It does feel like one of those things you have to experience and get used to managing. I can’t wait to find out!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture- That would be a great improvement in a year,it took me 2 years to improve that much.I find the going gets tough about 8 miles in a half,but there's lots of psychological tricks to help"oh great I've only got 5 miles left,that's a short training run" or "2 miles then just a parkrun" I find saying little things like that to myself really helps me crack on.
  • Speaking of racing, I'm back from mine. My ham's been a bit testy so, what with that and my recent loss of speed, I decided I'd try to run around HMP and not worry about PBs.
    It was pretty cold and while I was waiting to start, I was regretting my decision to go with vest and arm sleeves rather than a long sleeved top (I did wear leggings - I don't crack out the shorts until it's around 10 degrees) but I was OK once I got going.
    It's a four lap course but it's better than the one they use for their weekend, daytime races. It goes around the stadium then out on a longish dogleg before coming back along the river. Like last time, I had some issues on the darker parts of the course but at least it wasn't windy - last time the path that is lit by decorative lanterns was a nightmare as they were moving around and casting shadows which made it seem the ground was moving. It was like running through a funhouse.
    I didn't really look at my watch after the first two miles and my pace did drop a bit but I'm OK with the time - 53:26. I pushed myself without rinsing myself so it was like a good LT session.
    One weird thing was my left toes got quite sore. I wore my Zoom Flys (decided as I wasn't going to be running a very fast time, I didn't need my 4%) and thicker socks than I usually wear with them, which might have been the issue, but it could also be that the shoes are getting a little old now. They've got 438 miles on them so I think I will just use them for training in future.
    Anyway, that's that...let's see how I go on Saturday at the 5K.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Ian - good news on the survey, when are you hoping to move?

    You had me confused there about the Tiers.   I read the same about London, would be catastrophic for the hospitality businesses if they are moved up to Tier 3 next week.   Of course it's not just the number of cases but NHS availability .   Our cases are down to 35-50/100k, higher in other parts of Devon but still hospitals are busy with Covid cases so I hope we stay in Tier 2.

    Rcouture - both of my NB shoes are neutral so you'll need to do some research.   If the NB shoe has a number this is what they mean
    80 = neutral
    40 = control
    60 = stability
    70 = light stability
    90 = speed

    But there are other brands too, any chance you can get to a running shop and try a few on?

    Don't buy from the manufacturer, you'll get a better deal from a good online retailer, I use Sportsshoes, Start Fitness, Wiggle and even Sports Direct (for price, not for info).   And don't be tempted by the latest model if they have last year's model or even the year before that you'll get a much better deal.  Use this website for reviews Reviews of athletic shoes | RunRepeat   You can put your current model in and at the foot of the review it will show similar shoes.

    I've got a pair of Saucony Hurricane, which are my most stable shoe, I would think similar to Kayano.   Stability shoes do tend to be heavier than neutral shoes but there are more lightweight models available now than there used to be.   I find the Hurricanes quite heavy but I think I could run miles and miles in them as they are very comfortable.

    You've done perfect training for a half marathon, it's an endurance event not a speed event so you should be able to run comfortably without discomfort at least until you get to 10 miles, then you might have to dig a bit deeper.

    Jelly - you're getting some good consistent training done.

    Cal - that's a great result, you must be pleased with that.   I shivered reading about the vest, even with the arm warmers, it's so hard to decide what to wear for a race at this time of year.
    Hope the hammy isn't too sore today.


    I'm so happy, no ice  :) had a lovely 7 mile run, chilly and foggy, but it felt so good being able to run without any concern about ice.   
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-With xmas approaching we think it will be Feb by time we actually move,it is a small chain though and looks like the survey on our house went well as they have had it for 2 weeks and nothing had come back so may sneak January,just solicitors will go off soon for xmas so that will slow it.
    Cal-Good result last night,definitely harder racing in the dark.
    Our cases are low 50's now,so pretty certain to stay in Tier 2 as hospitals seem to be fine as I know a few people who have had ops brought forward.
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    I've got an unexpected day off today, ran everyday this week so feel like a rest day and last holiday wasn't fab so didn't get out for our far away walks, not sure where to go. thinking about John Musgrove trail but not sure where it start or goes to, know some of my friends have done Totnes to Brixham or Plym trail but don't fancy drive to plymouth. I'm going to have another cup of tea and see if I can find a good map on line. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - yes, everything stops for Christmas/New Year and you'd never get a solicitor to do anything in a holiday season.  ;)

    I hope they don't move any areas to Tier 1 as last time cases increased in Tier 1 areas and Christmas is in itself going to increase cases especially as I can't imagine that those that should be self isolating over Christmas will do so.   I see Germany are having a tough 2nd wave now and USA >3k deaths yesterday.

    Jelly - have you used the newish path from Bovey to Moretonhampstead, think it's called the Wray Trail
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well done Cal, good to read about a race after so long without one!

    Ian, sounds like the house move is progressing - fingers crossed you're moved by when you're hoping for then.

    RCouture, sounds like you've got a plan coming together for your race.

    As for me, I did another 90mins on the turbo yesterday afternoon.  I got into a group at a comfortable pace, and enjoyed that.  I went out for a 6-mile run this morning as well.  I was up on time but ended up faffing so had to delay the start of my run until the kids had gone (as most of my runs are on the flat at the moment, I run past two primary schools to get to the sea front, and it's busy before 9am), but the run itself went well again once I'd got out the door.  One of those ones where I was marginally too warm in a long-sleeved top, but would have been too cold in just a shirt.  Lots of surfers out there this morning too.

    I won't be going on about Zwift all the time, but they've got a New York City map as part of their rotation of maps, and on 18-20 Dec they have a special Tour of New York series, so I've marked those in my diary.  It's 3 routes and I think with new/improved graphics for those, so I'll do each route over the 3 days.
  • Shades, glad you a got a lovely ice-free run!
    Enjoy your day, Jelly.
    Big G, I must say that sounds fun. Do you access Zwift using a phone?

    Probably the shortest training run I've done for a while - just three miles (well, 5K actually) recovery. Was intending to go further but I was tired and hammy's grumpy so I decided 3 would have to do. Cold, grey weather, too, so wasn't inspired to stay out longer.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, I use a laptop for the main app.  I.E., there is a Zwift app on my laptop, which has bluetooth, and the bluetooth speed/cadence sensor on the bike communicate with the Zwift app.  I also have my HR strap and an Ant+ USB stick plugged into the laptop, which the Zwift app picks up.  There is a Zwift Companion phone app as well, and you can use that to do things like chat with riders, change direction, navigate junctions if you want to go a different direction to the default route.  But basically, once I'm riding I'm looking at the Zwift app on the laptop.  It is really good as on the maps there are designated sprint sections, hills etc.  My set up is basic so mine doesn't automatically change resistance on a hill, but I'm fine with it....I just use the gears on the bike, or the manual resistance lever on the turbo, to make it harder.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2020
    Big G - the school kids will be breaking up soon, then they'll be in bed until noon so won't interfere with your morning run.   They are so annoying, I used to have to walk with them when going to the leisure centre, fortunately my class times have changed.

    Another good run from you today.

    You might need to cycle across NY if you start eating a box of mince pies a day 😉


    Cal - that's pretty good recovery from you as the race was only last night.


    Been for my flu jab this morning, all very well organised with our 2 minutes each appointments.   Portacabin set up in the car park, no waiting, they were ahead of schedule and only one person ahead of me.  Didn't even sit down, couple of questions, data sheet link had been texted to us a couple of days ago.  Why do they say 'sharp scratch' when it actually feels like a needle being stuck in your arm.   😄
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    I'm back from our adventures. We did John Musgrove trail but I had to abandon it, as I couldn't work out if the ferry was working, found out after I just had to ring the big bell, but i had phoned Hubby by this point and he came to pick me up. I'm defently going to.do it again as I really enjoyed it. Think it was about 7 miles, I know the whole trail is 16. Would say it's a technical trail run. Back to  work tomorrow. I will go run in the morning with Milo.  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Jelly - I haven't heard of the John Musgrove trail, where does that go?


    7 miles this morning, a little milder than yesterday and I missed the rain.

    Gym later.  :)
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Jelly, I've done all of the John Musgrave trail, not all in one go though.  It's about 35 miles in total.

    Shades, it goes from Brixham, Totnes, Marldon, Cockington, Torquay, Maidencombe.  The Marldon, Cockington, Torquay bit is part of my 7 and 10-mile hilly loops I was doing in the summer.   I've done the section from Totnes to Marldon, and then dropped down the hill to home in Paignton a few times and it's *much* easier doing that section the other way around!
    https://ldwa.org.uk/ldp/members/show_path.php?path_name=John+Musgrave+Heritage+Trail

    I've come up with a negative for Zwift - as it's always there and easy to set up, it's very tempting to say "Oh, I'll just do an hour....".  I did another 90-mins last night, nice and easy in a large group around London.  Probably I'll do similar a bit later, and then aim to do about 6 miles for a run tomorrow.  If that goes well, I'll aim for about 8-9ish on Monday. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Big G, I'd never heard of it.   Not that I will be going anywhere near it.   ;)

    I expect when you're back running fully you won't have the energy just to 'do another hour' on Zwift so you'll settle into a routine.   Be careful you don't pick up another injury though from doing so much cycling so soon.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, I need to be careful still.  Once I get running 5 or 6 days a week again, which fingers crossed I'll be doing in January/February, I won't do as much as cycling.  I suppose if I can do a couple of bike sessions a week that would be great, but I'll just have to see how it all goes.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    But it's good for you right now and helps with the frustration of not being able to run as much and as often as you were before being injured.

  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Thanks Big G, I hope to do all of the trail as it's nice to have somewhere different to walk with Milo. We did our little route around Mamhead this morning, was out for about an hour, found a new path which avoids a road which i was chuffed with.  Legs felt tired today so I'm going to do a you tube yoga later and have rest day tomorrow, will still do easy walk with Milo. My friend is running City to Sea in reverse and I'm planning on parking in Exeter and running out to meet them and back again. Big G, when I had shin splints cycling kept my sane and held my fitness at reasonable level, found it easier to come back to running once I was over the shin splints. 
  • Sounds like a fun trail.

    I had originally planned to rest today but as I only managed three slow miles yesterday, I went out early and did five more at recovery pace. I knew with it being dark, it'd keep my pace down and I was just under 12 minute miling again. While it's probably quite beneficial to do really slow runs on occassion, I can't help but be a bit horrified by my stride length and cadence when I look at the stats after. Eh well.

    A bit later I went to the gym and did some upper body stuff - more power cleans, bench, dumbell rows and stuff. Back up to the weights I was using before the lockdown, although a bit lower on reps.
    Walked home via the Streatham Lidl as the small one in Balham didn't have the cheap oats I usually buy, and that turned out to be rather dangerous as I also came home with two boxes of macarons and a tub of gingerbread ice cream. (Still, it was a 2 mile walk, and I was carrying 4kg oats, two litres of milk and a bottle of olive oil and the aforementioned treats for the last mile of that, so I guess that counts as training).
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Jelly - you've done a fair bit of training and gym over the last few days, not surprised the legs are a bit tired.


    Cal - best to ignore cadence and stride length for slower runs, they should be less than when you run faster.

    You've done well to get back to pre lockdown weights in the gym.  I'm nowhere near yet but I'm still doing a mix of upper and lower body in each session so would expect slower improvements.

    That's a weighty shop.   Stocking up on the oats, that should last you a while. 🙂

    Gingerbread ice cream sounds yummy.


    Just seen a place going for Plym Trail marathon at the weekend, I've resisted although I was briefly tempted.
  • Cal - Belated well done on the 10k. Good luck on tomorrow’s!

    Shades - I also got my flu jab a couple of weeks ago and it was in and out in 3 minutes with barely a word spoken. I have had a look at some NBs and like the look of the fuelcell prism. Light without overly firm stability features. Problem is the heel drop is 6mm so not sure enough of a difference to the Arahis to rotate to keep pressure of my lower legs. 

    Went out for 6 miles after rest day yesterday. Felt heavy legged and frankly, crap. Think a combo of too many (socially distanced) drinks for my best mate’s birthday on Wednesday night and bad sleep. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Think those apps are great,cant imagine youd fancy 90mins on a turbo with nothing to distract you.I'm defo getting some when we get our treadmill.
    One of my staffs husband does garage conversions to gyms etc so we are giving him the measurements and getting a quote,hopefully get mates rates.
    Back running again tonight,did 6.5.The foot hasn't been bothering me all week so I'm hoping for good news in the morning but hopefully it's looking good.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - that's a decent distance, hope foot is OK tomorrow.
    I guess the house move is distracting you from noticing that you aren't able to run as often as usual.


    Rcouture - I had a quick look too at the NB shoes.   Did you look at the Fresh  Foam 860's, they are a 10 or 12 mm drop and get good reviews.  6mm maybe isn't high enough.

    Tut tut at the hangover, but you'll be fine by Sunday.  ;)   Please don't do that in the week before your marathon as will upset your hydration levels.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I seen a half on Sunday that I briefly considered,any thoughts were wiped away when I seen the weather.
    Zach Bitter is having a go at the 24hr record this weekend,I think he has a better chance than Killian but still won't get near it,he is an exceptional 12hr runner but hard to see how he can break it at his first attempt.
    https://www.aravaiparunning.com/desert-solstice/
  • Shades - Thanks I’ll have a look at those. The half is actually a week on Sunday, I’m not that daft 😀. I’m not a big drinker so takes me a while to recover. 
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