Overdone it?

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  • Some incredible training posted DT - far in excess of anything I ever did at peak fitness. I can see I'll have to make a serious effort for Manchester now, you fit bastard ;) !

    Glad to see you're back in the swing Skinny posting good mileages, and you too Mace - I've had a similar thing of yo-yo-ing recovery since being ill before Christmas and trying to get back to running. Posted several big fat zero weeks, but hopeful I can get some consistency going especially now home schooling is at an end. Aerobic fitness as measured by v02max on the watch is at the lowest it's been for a couple of years so there is some way for me to go to get back - think I need 2-3 months of good aerobic mileage before starting something more concerted. I managed about 37 miles last week and a chunk of walking. A long run of about an hour yesterday seemed impossibly long - but hope to get to 2 hours on my feet long runs by end of May so I can see how I feel about marathon training.

    Waves to Kevin, Pete and David returning to the fray.
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    DT - I'm hugely enjoying watching your progress. Funny old thing running isnt it. Who would have thought you would have such a big breakthrough 10 years after you started (and 10 years older too!)

    Skinny - Great to see you continue to build up that mileage.

    Muddy - Good to see you back at it. I bet the fitness returns quicker than you expect.

    A bit of a poor week for me last week with 35 miles done. But shows progress that I'm now considering that disappointing.

    Hoping to see a fitness improvement soon as I'm currently slower than I was when I started upping the mileage at the start of the year. I suppose the last few years of low mileage have killed my base fitness and progress will just be a slower than it was in the past.
  • kevin70kevin70 ✭✭✭
    DT, smashing it on all runs and great mileage and brilliant to read of your progress

    Mace hopefully you can now start getting some more mileage in, 

    Skinny, knocking out some decent mileage, great to see

    Tommy, good session off little training, 

    Muddy, good to see you back out

    Mr V progress on miles

    Managed just over 40mile weeks lately and happy with progress
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Thanks all, it makes the desire to get out the door and train much stronger knowing that things are happening.

    Nice consistency, Kevin.

    I'm sure it'll come back, Mr V as you develop some consistency.

    A case in point with todays session. It was 12k alternating between hmp and mp. Overall it came out 6.15mm and 158bpm. Same session on 02 Feb (using same loop) was 6.22mm and 158bpm. So today was further and faster for the same effort based on HR.

    Still waiting for an unconditional greenlight from Dorney. I've 2 more long runs left and 2 more sessions, albeit, I am doing a combo long run/session on Saturday.

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Afternoon all.

    Mace, good to see you back in to it, sounds like a long old drag of a recovery though.

    Muddy, sounds like you've had a similar drag of a recovery, have noticed you ramping things up a bit recently on strava. 

    Skinny, great consistency on the mileage. Do you feel like you're getting back to former fitness levels? 

    Kevin and Mr V following Skinny with good consistent mileage, I reckon we're all in a similar boat where we could do with a parkrun or something to see where our fitness is at. 

    DT - more excellent sessions. Look after those aches and pains! Fingers crossed for you on Dorney. 

    Still ticking along ok with about 25 miles last week again. Enjoying the lighter evenings and managing to get out into the lanes around the edge of the moors which is nice if a bit lung busting in places (~700ft in the first couple of miles on one run, but amazing views from the top made it worth while).   
     

  • Tommy2D said:

    Skinny, great consistency on the mileage. Do you feel like you're getting back to former fitness levels? 

    Kevin and Mr V following Skinny with good consistent mileage, I reckon we're all in a similar boat where we could do with a parkrun or something to see where our fitness is at. 
    Not yet - I ran the last 3 miles last night of a 4 miler a bit faster (av 7:15) but my heart was pumping by the end - I think I'm probably 4 or 6 weeks off getting the benefit of the mileage.

    I'm planning to run a 5k race on 4th April but it will be one of the staggered start things but at least it will give me an idea what pace I can go with a number on.

    I've always found it easier running longer when there is an element of exploring in it so those runs around the edge of the moors sound like fun Tommy, worth the extra effort!
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Yes definitely, I've enjoyed exploring new footpaths etc. We're pretty lucky here, the edge of the moors are only a couple a miles away and in the other direction I can get onto the coast path within about 6 miles. Plenty of elevation in either case. 

    Another 4-6 weeks of that mileage will certainly help I'm sure. The 10k I was eyeing up is also on 4th April, they've recently said they're still waiting for final clearance from EA, along with the council and land owner but if they get all that then it will be good to go with waved starts. I am tempted but will probably wait another couple of weeks before committing to an entry. Can't believe it's now a full 12 months since my last race. 
  • macemace ✭✭✭
    Tommy2D said:
    Yes definitely, I've enjoyed exploring new footpaths etc. We're pretty lucky here, the edge of the moors are only a couple a miles away and in the other direction I can get onto the coast path within about 6 miles. Plenty of elevation in either case. 

    Can't believe it's now a full 12 months since my last race. 

    I’ll raise you with ‘nearly 5 years’

    To be honest the idea of racing doesn’t appeal to me at all. I guess it’s the acceptance that, at age 55 this year, I won’t be getting near my pb’s now and will be happy to run for pleasure and well-being 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2021

    I raced a few times last year pre lockdown and once inbetween lockdowns in one of those phased starts. It was okay but when the chips are really down it's hard to keep squeezing when you're minutes off a PB.

    I still have some outlandish expectations that 12 months of solid training could leave me in 10m PB shape (63:19) but I'm 53 in a couple of months and it's now nearly 5 years since I ran most of my PBs.

    In fact my (not quite a) marathon PB is 7:19mm pace - if I could actually get fit enough to run a marathon that might be achievable too. At the moment that's 10m pace I would guess.

    Anyway after 7 and a half weeks of solid base training this is all pie in the sky. I'll maybe revisit this conversation in June if I'm not on the injury bench by then.
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Wow, 5 years! Time flies. I've just had a look back at the start of the thread, can't believe it's coming up to 9 years since it started. 

    I guess I've always had a bit of a different relationship with running and racing to most people; the most important thing to me is to enjoy doing it and for the health benefits (both physical and mental). Getting a PB is great and I enjoy a track or tempo session etc to keep things interesting / see what sort of fitness I'm at. If I can get back to a similar level to 3-4 years ago when most of my best times are from that would be great but if I don't then I'm fine with that. Guess that's why I've always enjoyed the challenge of XC and fell races as pace/time is pretty much irrelevant. 

    Talking of  XC, I went out over the trails and footpaths last night thinking they wouldn't be too bad, I was wrong, it was a complete mud bath. Good fun though!
  • I think I've still got a bit of improvement in me though not sure it's worth the aggro. I would like to train for a marathon and feel happy about it, but this is perhaps a fundamental incompatibility. Fairly sure that getting in tip top marathon shape would yield improvements everywhere.

    7+4 so far this week, and 7.5 walking. Off out for 7-8ish at lunchtime in the blustery wind and rain.
  • Tommy2D said:
     Getting a PB is great and I enjoy a track or tempo session etc to keep things interesting / see what sort of fitness I'm at. 
    That comment has made me think a little Tommy - because nearly all my running is just running (no sessions) I enjoy the running but I don't really get the runner's high which I do think you get from knocking out a 6*800 (or whatever).

    I need to remind myself as well, now that I do seem to be able to run again, that I had always planned to do Lakeland trail races once the PBs had dried up just for enjoyment but I don't see myself fell running (feels like my muscles are going to explode on the way up and explode on the way down!).


    Muddy - I would like to train for a marathon and actually make it to the start line.
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    I'm definitely in the 'run mainly for fitness and wellbeing' bracket these days. I do still enjoy parkruns and some faster training but proper races generally dont hold much appeal anymore.

    I still think the competitive spirit could be rekindled if my paces came down far enough but I'm well aware my best times are from 2014 and are probably a distant memory.

    One thing I regret is never doing a marathon when I was fit. I always wanted to do London and assumed a GFA place would be fairly easy for me to get. I feel I've definitely missed the boat on that one now.

  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Yes, there is that. I was saying to my mate last night that I'd often struggle to get to sleep after an evening race or track session. Whilst not exactly the same, when I run in scenic /picturesque places it does give me a similar high.

    Fell races in your neck of the woods are another level to most of those I'm used to in the Peak District, although that feeling of imminent muscle explosion sounds very familiar!

    What about the Cross Bay Challenge that you ran back in the very early days of the thread as a low key / no pressure return to racing?
  • Tommy2D said:
    What about the Cross Bay Challenge that you ran back in the very early days of the thread as a low key / no pressure return to racing?
    Can't find any sign of it with a google - involves a bus journey with all the other runners so probably a non starter at the moment.

    I've got plans though but just seeing how things go at the moment.

    Today's run will be day 50 of running every day - goes back to 22nd January and by the time I've done today's 4 miles it will be a total of 266 miles in those 50 days. (last year when I did 56 days I only covered 254 miles so my daily average is higher this time).
  • 3,4,7, 4,4,16,7.5 for a 45.5 mile week.

    The 16 was supposed to be 14 but my friend missed a turn whilst we were chatting.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Just noted, there's been about 10 posts since my last one. That's not happened in a while. 

    Solid miles coming in now Skinny and a bit long run there. 

    I think at your age particularly, Mr v, you'd be more than capable of getting back there. 

    I recall even at your peak, Mace we were urging you to race a 10k at least. There's a lot to be said though if training for a mara to keep the miles up and not keep stopping and starting for other races too often. 

    Following Tuesdays session I did a 12m mlr wed, 8m easy Thursday then 5m recovery and bike Friday.

    Yesterday was a peak session, 20m with 6m easy then 2 x 6m at mp off 1m easy then 1m cd. Conditions weren't great with a cool strong wind and intermittent showers. I tried to keep the mp sections genuinely how I'd want to feel first half. First set came out 6.34mm and were really comfortable. An 8mm filler then it was a bit of an effort to get going again but first Mile came in 6.24 and I then pulled it back and that made it feel nice and comfortable. The next 5 all came in 6.31/6.32. Of course I then spied an opportunity to run a reasonable half time and added on the .11 and put in a bit of a sprint last 200 to come in 1.26.59. Average hr was 154 so probably lower than I'd want at half way. Average pace for the half was 6.38. 

    I was expecting to maybe have some leg soreness or tiredness today but absolutely nothing. So did an interval session on bike. 

    Moving my long to yesterday meant in those 7 days I'd run 83m. Was 10,4 dead on this morning. Wore jeans earlier for first time since late January. My one belt needs new holes, my other the lowest hole just did enough but jeans were hanging off me. 

    1 more big week then taper. 
  • 1:26:59 in a training run for a half is just taking the piss DT :D 

    Does that mean you'd be looking at a 2:54 marathon as a little bit shit now?
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    Skinny - looking good. You've got to be tempted to start thinking about the odd faster session now?

    DT - I'm guessing that deciding on target pace is going to be quite the challenge! 

    41 for me this week. Think the miles are starting to feel a little easier now.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2021
    In my head it's running first half a touch faster than 6.40 so coming through between 1.27 and 1.27.30 then slowly letting things progress through second half. 

    Skinny, sub 2.55 (it's Berlin gfa) is the target but I think I could be pushing closer to 2.50. Factor in the fact that when I get to race day I will have tapered and won't have run 60 mpw for the 12 weeks prior, will have raceday magic and dare I say my alphaflys. It may take me this mara to learn to be brave enough to have a right good go at sub 2.50 in London. 

    One last 20 to go next Friday. I'm combining it with an entry to a virtual version of the 20m race I usually do pre mara simply because it was only £20 and every year they do a bespoke hoody. I'm just going to run it easy in my 'lunch break'. I needed a new hoody and £20 seemed decent value. 
  • Mr V said:
    Skinny - looking good. You've got to be tempted to start thinking about the odd faster session now?

    41 for me this week. Think the miles are starting to feel a little easier now.
    I'm thinking creep up to 50 over next 3 weeks and then drop back a bit and bring in some light quality.

    I'm the same - the 7 milers are just a run now rather than being like a survival expedition.
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Sknniy - shame about the Cross Bay Challenge, sounds like a good event. Another good week for you, 16 mile LR looks like the start of marathon training!

    Mr V - sounds good. I agree with DT, I reckon you'll fairly easily be able to get back to where you've been previously. 

    DT - Another quality session, sub 2:50 is definitely on! 

    30 miles for me last week inc 11 muddy miles yesterday over the edge of the moors with about 1300ft of elevation gain. Starting to feel stronger and with the weather improving I'll be more confident going further and to more remote parts of Dartmoor.   
  • kevin70kevin70 ✭✭✭
    DT, smashing out times and big mileage, delighted for you.

    Good miles Skinny and Mr V, getting back into the grove

    Tommy big elevation in the mud

    40mls last week mostly all easy pace, happy with how things are going.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a decent plan, Skinny. I've always got the impression that you have very much unfinished business with the marathon after the Manchester debacle then getting injured building to London.

    That sounds horrific, Tommy, though I appreciate that you enjoy that stuff more than I ever would. I think if I were near that shape I wouldn't know it until too far into the race to have enough distance left to achieve it. Which goes back to my point that I think i'll need two goes at the distance to really get the best of me.

    A lot is achieved through consistency, Kevin so don't worry too much about the effort level.

    5m recovery over lunchtime at 8.12mm for me. I think it's helped me manage all this a lot   more easily that I am happy to go out on these runs and let them come in the same pace they did when I was 30s per mile slower as opposed to pushing 7.30s as many seem to at or around the same level .


  • If any of the thread ladies are out there I'm interested in your views.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/56392440

    So I have in the past caught up with a lady who was running in front of me and started chatting to her. I didn't think anything about it but am now wondering where the line is and what is okay and what's not. It was the middle of the day on a Sunday afternoon and we were running at the same pace but she was about 20 yards ahead of me so I put a bit of a spurt on to catch her up.

    She chatted back and we ran together for a couple of miles and I've never thought any more about it until reading these articles.

     I may have done the same with a man and I've definitely been caught by a man mid easy run and sped up to run along with them and chatted.

    When is it okay and when isn't it or is it never okay?

    PS As men go I'm definitely at the non threatening end of the spectrum! 
    :D
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    Hello Skinny! By amazing coincidence I just popped into the thread, and I've nothing much to say as I've been doing very little running, so it's nice to have something to contribute!

    I think it's complicated and very context-dependent, so the answer has to be 'if in doubt, don't'. But what you're describing doesn't really sound like anything the two athletes in the article mention, i.e. you're not the kind of twat who couldn't stand to let a woman pass just because she's a woman, and keep trying to catch up (esp without even saying anything), like Mara Yamauchi is describing. Having said that, I've also had that experience and, although it has never made me feel unsafe, I do think it is pretty sexist and annoying (and I would feel unsafe if it was at night, I think). This is because if you are a man and you are generally decent, if a little bit twatty, you're likely to think twice about latching onto female runners in dark and deserted places, so if it happens anywhere other than in broad daylight on a popular running route, you'd assume that the man is not entirely benign. And I did once when running along the canal towpath in Nottingham have this one man keep trying to catch up to me, making me feel mildly uncomfortable (even though it was in the daytime). By contrast, quite recently I was out running where I live now one morning and a man was obviously trying to keep pace and it didn't even occur to me to feel threatened - it turned out he lived on the same street as me (we passed his house first) and we had a chat and a joke about it.

    ...which brings me to your case specifically, Skinny: I reckon that, like me, you probably live in the sort of area where it's normal for strangers to stop and have friendly chats with each other whatever they happen to be doing. In which case catching up to a runner of either sex and having a chat could also feel pretty normal - especially if you are running at the same pace (which in your case would mean that she was a reasonably good and experienced runner). But you'd obviously want to be sensitive to any signals that the female runner was not keen to engage and leave her alone if so. When I lived in Paris, by contrast, where you couldn't even sit on a park bench as a solo woman without horrible slimy men coming up to you and insisting on chatting, I'd have probably also felt more threatened by men coming up to me when I was running.

    Sabrina Sinha's comments in that article make it sound like she lives in a city, where pervy men are more likely to be hanging around, but they're not necessarily runners. She may well mostly also be (physically) safer than she feels, but that doesn't make the harrassment and abuse any easier to take.
  • Hi Lit!

    I remember you mentioning the Nottingham incident on here I think.

    Thanks for the reply - I think from reading what you've written if I judge myself a reasonably normal man then I read the situation and apologise if I ever read a defensive reaction and otherwise it's okay - I would never approach another runner in the dark other than to pass them.

    The whole situation is very difficult and I kept this narrow to the running theme. It's really sad if no women feel safe outside their own home apart from on busy streets in broad daylight but so many bad things are done by bad people to all walks of society none of which I can really influence - women being attacked is just one of many.

    In other news I hope everything is going well with the baby - please remind me the due date again?

    Lovely to hear from you even if you are semi retired now! (I bet you could still beat mace in a race to the ice cream van!)
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    Mainly I'm just very busy! I shall resume running next year when I am on maternity leave and have loads and loads of free time (she said, naively). Baby is due mid May and I have been doing some top quality nesting - we've been very lucky to be given most of the main expensive items we'd need by friends and colleagues with older children, so have hardly had to buy anything (except a new cot mattress and 1 million reusable nappies), but have been busily cleaning and refurbishing preloved items.
  • Mid May - not long now then. Yes loads of time - they just sleep and make cute cooing noises.

    Following Mr V's advice (not really I was just a bit later than I meant to be) I ran my 9 miles this morning as 3 normal, 3 a bit faster and 3 a bit faster still.

    Came out 7:52, 7:34, 7:19 averages for each group of 3 miles. Didn't feel like I was really pushing it so the legs are coming back which is good. 7:20 would do me as MP so I suppose a light session of sorts.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2021

    I think the speeding up thing is just ego and happens whatever sex. I have had runs where over the course of 1k have pulled someone that was a good 500m ahead of me but suddenly as I pass them they find a new gear, usually for about another 200m or so. I think it would be harsh for a women to stop and confront there.

    I had a friend post on weekend that he run was ruined by two incidences of male intimidation. Didn't read too deeply as to what occurred but I imagine similar to the first case study in the article.

    Lit, good to hear things are going well and you are all set, in the thriftiest of manners as well!

    Skinny, nice to see a little bit of speeding there.

    I just had the most spectacular of sessions yesterday to the extent I've no idea where it came from. Following a wu it started off with 3m at normal tempo pace. They came in at 6.09, 6.13 and 6.14. I thought that was a bit sharp but effort was fine. Then 3 min easy followed by 5 x 1m at HMP off 45s slow jog or walk. They came in 5.49, 5.46, 5.46, 5.46 and 5.53. I just kept going for the 45s at about 7.30 pace as didn't feel I needed to stop etc. It was bizarre as the gps was essentially giving me paces that were too fast but I just felt great, full of power and HR was fine. Overall 8.80m at an average pace of 6.06mm for the session, including all the slow running.

    Strava tells me somewhere in there I ran a 37.37 10k (3s short of my actual pb) and 18.17 5k, 3s faster than my pb. I wore my new Soar running shorts and wondered if it was down to those, but that seems improbable on its own. That's the biggest Tuesday session I've ever done and of course the biggest of the block as I taper soon.

    I said to Lewis last night, people are going to start thinking i'm on EPO or something to suddenly at my age after so long, be on such a curve.

    10m MLR over lunch now. Legs feel fine following that yesterday.

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