P&D Spring Marathon 2021

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  • Jools - that made me laugh re the hammies.  On occasion, my back has been similar, I can recall struggling to bend to tie shoe laces then knocking out a reasonable tempo run.  Kind of dilutes any sympathy though.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 23
    Hamo - cracking long run, youve build a good engine to go with the steely legs. As a heavier runner ive avoided over distance, did it once and was still cramping on race day (i know to expect some % of hammy cramp on race day now though).....agreed, just need Runbritain to sign it off........i was still on for Dorney (id like to meet macca for a bit longer than the last meeting), but since my CV was booked for today, theres an expectant of it affecting me for a while as i tested positive for CV. They reiterated it to me this morning.....i was defo at the point of having dug myself into a hole training wise recently too, so ive tried to ease off esp on the long run efforts.....so yes Goodwood , i do like to settle a score, but ill probably regret it when im weaving through 5k runners.....at least it should guarantee macca some decent weather for dorney too.

    Macca - you're nicely placed to run well, as above looks like the Runbritain sign off should be soon.

    Jools - sounds like me at times, back and hammies are all related. Defo something in the tempo thing, i think its god to put your body through a range of paces. Im trying to but its a juggling act with all the niggles.

    Quick (12 hr) turnaround from my 13m for 9m inc 12x3mins today, wanted it done before my jab this morning, and i would like a long run session saturday, do didnt want reps on friday again.

    Jab gratefully received, thank you the scientists, govt and NHS.
  • TR - that’s a shame re Dorney but understandable, hopefully no or minimal side effects.  A SD tinnie or two in the car park afterwards would have been good (or at least better than it sounds typed).
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 23
    Macca - agreed, post race war stories with a beer have been missed for sure. Runbritain arnt exactly dynamic are they!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Think my back is a bulging disc pressing on the nerve as it’s a sharp pain rather than stiff/achey. Had it before but not for ages. Could have been shifting crates of vinyl Friday night after my run that caused the problem & I then aggravated it with the press-ups. The spasm has eased at least & the pain is abating gradually.
    3.4 miles with some easy (for me) grassy hills at lunch with the young lassies & then my new favourite 6M evening loop. Pleased to see the recovery pace getting quicker 😃
    Good luck with the post-jab period TR.
    Funnily enough sympathy is never very forthcoming whenever I mention injuries. Usually greeted with “time for a break” 😆
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Macca...Agreed, I am enjoying the confidence of knowing i have ran over the required distance and hopefully the time too :lol: Lovely 10k TT, and backed up well with a LR. I wouldn't worry too much about having a comparison from before, you are in good nick. Beer in the car park sounds like my kinda post race entertainment :lol:

    Jools...No, I'm not being coached, though have spoke to a few coaches and runners at the club and have decided to take some of their advice on board and try a few new things out in this block (i'm viewing it as a free hit if Wrexham happens), while staying close enough to the p&d prescribed runs and sessions. Nice track reps, glad the hammy is behaving, and recovery/easy running. Hope your back improves soon.

    TR...Hope you are not suffering too many after effects of the jab. At least you have made a decision now and can fully focus on exercising the Goodwood Demons. Lovely 3 min reps, that is a good session. What is your plan now, 1.5/2 more big weeks/sessions then taper down?


    9 mile with 6x800 (off 80) reps yesterday evening for me down the tow path. I'm really happy with how they came out, 2.29, 29, 29, 29, 28 and 30, even if i had to stop mid rep in the last one as i swallowed a whole family of flies and choked :flushed: :lol:

    I backed that up with a 15 mile MLR this morning, all at circa +10 pace, averaging 6.18 min miling and felt good despite the tired legs at the start, so more than happy with that too. I realised when i got home i only 1 more 15 miler left in this plan, must be getting close now :flushed:
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Jools- be careful with that back then, sounds like you know what you're doing.

    Hamo - nice reps, springtime must be coming if there are flies about. I had a heron go into vertical take off as i crossed a small stream in my reps yday, scared the shit out of me as i didnt know he was there......this weekemd will be 4 weeks out so will be easing dow after easter, id lke to do 13.1 mp at easter, to see where i am. Whilst i had minor cv symptoms i still dont think im back to where i was.

    Felt a bit ropey before bed last night, and in the night, slight raised RHR this morning so sacked off the planned commute run as a wtfp. Will review it tomorrow morning. A rest day 2 weeks in a row will lead to getting fit if im not careful.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Nice reps Hamo.
    How you feeling this evening TR? The day off will almost certainly do you more good than harm at this stage.
    So a 4.5M recovery at lunch with my DofE student & home in time for the 6M loop. Midweek session called for so decided on 1M wu into 3x1M hard with 0.5M float between efforts. Miles came out as 6:28/7:48/5:59 😆
    Not as erratic as it appears since 1st was undulating, 2nd was uphill all the way & 3rd was 90% DH. Effort was there so training benefit should be too.
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    TR...I am sure it did scare you, you've been spotting some wildlife lately. 13.1 at MP would be a good indicator, and you are fair enough out that recovery will be no issue. Sensible, a rest day will do you no harm at all. Hope you are feeling better today.

    Jools...Those rep times certainly look interesting with no disclaimer :lol: 100% you'll get training benefit from them, esp the uphill effort, class session.


    8 mile very easy pace this morning for me, needed it to be fair, my legs where like lead at the start but loosened up nicely.
  • Just seen the news that Dorney is on😃

    Now to nip out to get jabbed up 💉.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 25
    I thought blimey thats some erratic reps jools, then i read on. Makes my lumpy mp and rep runs seem pancake.

    Hamo - good that your legs respond to the easy miles

    Doubly great news Macca, a big part of me just wanted to run Dorney, however.....

    Felt ropey last night, and pretty sleepy, but HR was ok this morning so i set off for an easy 6m commute, toyed with going home after 1m, but it got a bit easier. One of those days when you wonder if you should be doing it, but it got a bit better.....remember thinking to myself, thank fck im not running Dorney in 9 or 10 days.......

    You should be fine day or 2 after the jab macca, as someone who has had  previous CV they said the jab might rough me up for a while. Whilst I'll regret missing Dorney, id regret turning up and having a shit day more. Hopefully im daisy fresh 3 weeks later, ready for the gales.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited March 25
    Hope you’re wrong about gales on the 25th TR as my marathon course is flat but also very exposed & vulnerable to a SouWesterly which is most probable.
    Did a 5K TT out & back along the canal with the Y10 lads today. Set off in 3 groups, 2 minutes apart, targeting 25’/23’/21’ I paced the 23’ group to half way in 11:26 into a stiff breeze. Then waited at the turn point for the 21’ group who arrived about a minute behind before blasting the return in 9:41.
    Interesting predictions from Garmin  :D

    I’ll take them with a healthy dose of salt. I expect I’d manage 5K at that Mara pace but suspect I’d’ve blown up by 10K 🤣
    Hilly 10K this evening got me to within 275m of March’s #nEverest.
  • I do wonder where those numbers come from Jools.  I’ll run an eyeballs out 5k and it will tell me I could have gone 2 mins quicker.  I’m sure consistent effort on the reps 🤣

    TR - probably a wise decision especially if you’re sitting on two entries.  Hopefully you’re feeling a bit better and a few extra weeks will zahelp.

    Hamo - super consistent reps and tidy 15m after.  I’m not sure what’s worse, flies in the mouth or the eyes.  It is nice to count down the 15m MLRs, I find that’s the one session that can be a bit of a squeeze to get in amongst real life.

    Plan had 6m RR yesterday so it was 3m to the vaccination centre, no more than a couple of minutes in side, super efficient, then 3 miles home.  Thus far I seem to be one of the fortunate ones that hasn’t had any side effects.  In fact, as I don’t look at needles, I’m wondering if it was all a big charade and they didn’t actually jab me. Like TR says, just grateful to all the people involved in getting it into my arm.

    5m RR today then a proper 5k hit out tomorrow.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Just dropping in - I'm still benched but it's hurting a bit less. Probably just as well I'm resting as Covid jab made me feel pretty poorly last week.
    Anyway, just been watching the Olympic trials and huge congrats to my (and Joe's) clubmate, Steph - she smashed it! Almost gave me a tear in the eye.
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    Macca...Brilliant news re Dorney, go and smash it now. And good news that you are side effect free so far, hopefully it stays that way. Agreed about the 15 milers, while i think they are the best/most beneficial sessions of the plan, they can be a grind to fit in and run sometimes. Best of luck with the 5k hit out, should be quick after a few easier days.

    TR...Yesterdays run probably cemented the fact that you've made the right decision in targeting Goodwood then. You'll be fresh and ready to smash it in a few weeks, and hopefully the gales stay well clear this time, you cant be that unlucky :lol:

    Jools...Lovely 5k TT running, it will have done you a world of good to have that change of pace in the middle of it, and massively negative split the time. Backed up well with a hilly 10k, class work.

    Cal...Glad to hear from you, keep checking in. Sorry that you suffered from the jab, but good news you got it, and that the body is hurting a bit less after resting. 100%, the Olympic trials where brilliant to watch, and Steph done awesome, that is some run for her, you must be very proud. And as for Chris Thompson...wow, and thoroughly deserved, delighted for him... determination and grit pays off.


    10 miles with 10x100 strides this morning for me. Hopefully the strides will have helped waken the legs up a bit, as they usually do, as i am replacing the tune up 10k scheduled for tomorrow with 10k @ MP.


  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Jools- mine hovers around a prediction of 3.13, but its due to crap wrist HR data, that algorithm likes to see reps and sessions too......at least you are in a different location to me on apr 25th, that should help you....

    Steely immune system too Macca!

    Cal - hope to see you back to it soon.

    Hamo - agreed re Thompson, his interview (4h 43m into the 5hr youtube coverage), is one of the best things ive seen in ages. That's why folks run maras.

    Pretty tiredagain last night (hopefully its the vaccine doing its thing), 8m easy today was better than ydays run. Will play it by ear tomorrow re a long run, might have to do a few laps.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    He had a brilliant run - storming last lap. 

    TR, I was tired after the vaccine but I did have a rough night. At least my symptoms only lasted a day (a bit less really). My HR was definitely higher so perhaps it's just as well I couldn't run.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Cal - your body reacted pretty well then. But you hadnt had cv?

    I wanted to do 22 inc some effort today, but that was never going to happen as i still feel off the boil. So aimed for 14ish with a view to keep tagging on for as long as i could. Managed to grind out 20. Hopefully i can get rattling for a few sessions soon.
  • Cal - hurting a bit less sounds like progress, keep at it.  I only caught snippets of the marathon but it looked like a good event.  Exciting to have a club mate going to the olympics.

    TR - turning a 14 into 20 sounds like a good effort.  I don’t really understand what’s involved in the body mounting an immune response but hopefully you are over the worst of it.

    Hamo - Hope the 10k @MP went well, it looked good on Strava.

    A 5k solo TT for me yesterday.  Without training specifically for a 5k I think a week before the marathon is probably the best shape I’m likely to be in for one.  I went back to my usual course, donned a new pair of Nikes finest, set the watch to Kms and off I went. I’ve averaged 18:10 to 18:20
    over the last 45 efforts with a 17:59 best so target was a 17:xx.  Long story short, reps came in at 3:30, 3:32, 3:28, 3:34 and 3:31
    for a 17:38, according to Strava (which doesn’t quite add up).  With the caveat it’s a garmin based time, it’s only 7s off my Pb from a park race and 20-30s quicker than anything in the last year so happy with that.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Macca - ooh nice, that leg speed bodes well. Did nike replace yr 4% in the end ?....i had the initial response with mild flu symptoms as expected, but have had muscle aches an fatigue which is more CV symptoms, the vaccine gave my wife the CV migraine again.........

    However, legs we'rent as battered today as i thought they might be, and 4 weeks out is a good weekend to put some miles in so applied the same tactics as yday with keep tagging on and ended up with 15m more, so just over 2 hrs of time on feet to back up ydays 20m.
  • TR - yes Nike were very good with a full credit note.  The shoes were over 12 months old but had a genuine 125 miles in them so they honoured the 2 year guarantee.  My new Next% don’t look or sound right but they just feel fast.

    Thats a solid weekend, sounds like the endurance is there, hopefully a few weeks of sharpening and you’ll feel better.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Macca - fair play to Nike then. I note they have just launched a next %2 at £210 which is supposed to be as good, bet they dont release many or they'll have a glut of version 1......yep, hope to crack on a bit for 10days.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    No doubts about those Next% judging by your Fly(ing) 5K Macca.
    Huge weekend TR, especially given your jab response.
    Disappointing (not)parkrun yesterday for me. HR averaged MP effort which was matched by my pace. Legs were leaden: felt like wading through treacle. 26hrs recovery did me no favours - or wasn’t enough after 3 days of faster efforts including rather a lot of downhill quad battering.
    Much better run this afternoon: [email protected]:44 on undulating forest trails. Legs felt achey & stiff first thing but after a slow mile wu I was bouncing along at 7:xx pace. After 8M I upped the effort slightly & the pace dropped to 7:34 for 10M before slipping in mile 19 due to the 130’ climb 😆 Maintained the effort through to the finish though. Real confidence boosting run 4 weeks out: first 20M of ‘21

  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Marathoning with the buggy has crossed my mind, Macca, but I definitely won’t. I’d always stop a run if he got upset/woke, and time it for nap/feeding/pooing (all the good things). Don’t think the organisers would be too happy with me delaying the start 😆. 

    Sorry to hear you are still on the bench, Cal. Amazing running for your club mate. She really has gone next level. 

    That is outstanding, Macca! What a 5k! Really reckon you will go very well next week. 

    That’s a great long run, Jools. And on a beautiful route. Target for Shepperdine? 


    Solid week of 72M. Taking the easy runs easier than in the past (8m/m+ rather than 7:15s).

    After Monday’s intervals, felt recovered enough by Wednesday afternoon for a tempo session. The book called for 16 mins, 12, 10. Having enjoyed progressing the two mile laps of the racecourse a couple of weeks ago, decided to replace the planned time with 3 x two-miles. 6:20 pace, 6:15 then a 6:30. Horrifically low blood sugar on the final, which is very rare. Took the gamble of having some insulin before the run as a hard session usually pushes blood sugar level skywards. Evidently got things wrong... I think that plan worked well when running first thing in the morning and there was no insulin on board, but for afternoon sessions there is still enough kicking about from lunchtime. Lesson hopefully learned and a good session nonetheless: all in 12.2M at 7:12 pace.

    In spite of a return of the westerly winds of a couple of weeks ago, planned on going buggy long yesterday. The lad had a very solid nap, and enabled our first (probably only 😆) 20M. 7:45 pace for my first twenty since mid August. I think down under they consider 30k the magic distance, but 20M certainly has a nice ring to it.

    Saw the usual very friendly farmer shifting his sheep about - giving waves and going out of his way to pull over for me. Then noticed a Range Rover coming towards us at speed. It is a very straight road so probably had about 600m or more of warning. He had a strangely determined look on his face - slightly weird I thought. Then noticed the undercover Police BMW following behind, swiftly trailed by a marked up 4x4. I know such pursuits must happen all the time, but not on the quiet buggy lanes. Found myself wondering about the headspace of the driver determinedly trying to escape the cops.

    My friend has finally pushed the button and entered Peterborough marathon. I have written him a loose plan and am looking forward to pacing him. Really exciting having a vicarious relationship with running as well! 

    Four weeks until the Shepperdine Half marathon (see you there, Jools!). After yesterday’s run, the devil on my should is wondering if I could restamp the sub-3 marathon card... 

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Probably 3:10 SQ.
    That’s a cracking LBR although sounds like an you got an unwelcome adrenaline shot! Be good to have you in the Mara. Do you feel in with a shout of a PB on the half? If not then nothing to lose by switching. You’re at least as ready as me. My 1st 20 got me to 74M this week.
    It’d make pacing duties at Peterborough a lot easier too
  • JohnOzJohnOz ✭✭✭
    Cal - hope your recovery goes well, you're doing the right things and still getting outside so once you can start building up your running I'm sure you'll be back and stronger for it. Must be exciting to have an Olympian clubmate, she was head and shoulders above the field.

    TR - great long running and now that you've settled on Goodwood you should be able to manage the load sensibly in the remaining few weeks. Good news about the vaccine but take it easy until you feel close to normal!

    Macca - fantastic 5k and shows you're in top marathon shape. Weather permitting I think you've got a great shot at a PB. Are they the Next% v2 or v1?

    Jools - you seem to make a rapid recovery from niggles, great LR effort. Those predicted times are impressive!

    Hamo - looking good now that you're nailing the longer sessions. Although you say Wrexham is a free hit I'd be surprised if you don't give your PB a scare. Hope you manage to get into a group at sub 2:30 pace.

    SQ - nice buggy LR, I can't imagine going that far pushing one! Sub 3 sounds eminently doable with your base and growing fitness. And you're right about 30k being the standard marathon distance LR down here, string a few of those together and you'll be fine. You'll enjoy the pacing gig as well, it's a very different experience when you're consciously having to control your pace to not make your friend blow up! That car chase sounds dramatic, was it dangerous at all along the country lane?

    I've been taking it easy and watching my RHR over the last couple of weeks before building back up. Seems to be 3-5bpm higher since the race which I guess is normal. Next race is a 10k at the start of May so tried out a P&L session last week: 2x(1600,1200,1000,800) at around 10k pace. Started off too quickly and the first set came out  at 6:03m/m but the recoveries became walks and the second set was slower (6:08m/m). Happy to get in 9.2km of intensity though and not too far off PB pace. Great weather at the weekend for being outdoors (after torrential rain last week which flooded major parts of the state) and enjoying the cooler temps. Easy pace is still quite a bit slower than before so probably need another week of taking it easy.

     
  • hamo44gfchamo44gfc ✭✭✭
    TR...100%, Chris' interview(s) after the race sum up the feelings of running a marathon well. Running 20 miles after aiming for 14 is good going, and shows some amount of mental toughness/grit, and then to back it up with a 15 miler is very good work. Few sharpener sessions and you'll be good to go for Goodwood.

    Cal..Good that you didn't suffer too long with the after effects of the jab.

    Macca...That is a cracking 5k TT. To run that time, especially on your own is some going, and is bound to have boosted your confidence no end. Some jump from your 5k averages this year too, class running, the taper is obviously working.

    Jools...That is a cracking long run, I can understand the confidence boost and it will have wiped away any negative thoughts about the (not) parkrun, excellent work. Nice long run and big week.

    SQ...Big week, sensible dropping the pace a bit for the easy running. Lovely 2 mile tempos, especially with the blood sugar dropping, as long as the lesson is learned and no harm was done, that is a good session. Fair play to you buggy running for 20 mile, that must take some strength, and not a shabby pace at all, class work, and you even got a bit of "entertainment" with the high speed chase, that is madness. For what its worth, my thoughts would be, you would have no bother stamping the sub 3 card if you choose to upgrade.

    John...Sensible taking it easy and giving yourself the time to recover fully after your race. That is a very good session for a tester for your 10k, nice to get the legs moving again after the easy running i am sure. Plenty of time to build up to a 10k at the start of May.


    I was meant to do a 10k tune up race on Saturday, but swapped that out for 10k at MP in the middle of the total called for distance (WU, 10k, CD). So 13 miles all in, with the 10k averaging 5.38 min miling for the MP effort. A bit quick in fairness, but i felt good, so stayed with it. Very pleasing morning, even if i won't set out at that pace on race day (in hindsight it was probably in the space between HMP and MP that feels doable over 10k but not over 42 if that makes sense), as it was in control, I didn't feel over stretched or pushing it, and it was at the end of a 118.5 mile rolling week.

    I backed that up with a 22 mile long run at a steady enough pace, averaging 6.38's, on Sunday to finish my week at 112 miles. One more big week (circa 112/3 miles) to go then it's taper time, which i am looking forward to as the last 4 weeks have been 113, 110, 111, 112 miles, so the legs will appreciate the drop in mileage of the taper.

    Double 6 recoveries this morning and after work to start this week off. 

    Bit of an update from "Wrexham" on Friday, they have abandoned holding the race in Wales, and are focusing on the English course (in Pulford, which is just over the English/Welsh border) that they had measured now. Apparently they have the traffic management plan and route cert confirmed with the council, and are just waiting on the go ahead from English Athletics which they are confident on getting. I'm still waiting on a concrete confirmation before i book anything/look too far ahead but a bit more encouraging i'd say.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 29
    SQ - you're in good shape, a couple more 20s and youd be able to sub 3. Good to get a gfa banked, the window of opportunity is smaller now.

    John - good change of focus with the 10k, youve run a lot of maras recently.

    Hamo - top stuff, you're going well too. Top mileage. Those wrexham (or not) folks are good eggs, they are trying hard to put a race on. They have a lot of quick runners hoping they can get a race on.

    10m easy, did my monday mlr yday.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Good question, Jools. I definitely won’t PB (high 78s), but would get satisfaction from smashing myself in say 82 mins. Don’t really have a proper gauge on what might be possible. 

    I’d say you are more ready - given some of you very long trail runs on the coast a while ago. Will see what I do next couple of weekends - this will probably decide it for me. 

    Cheers, John. Yes - really looking forward to the pacing. I have enjoyed it officially at a biggish half marathon, less-officially at parkrun and completely unofficially with the same mate over a 10M a few years ago. 

    The country lanes are really quiet and safe - one reason for using them so much for the buggy running. I can also see a long way ahead as the hedgerows are quite low. So always loads of time to pull over if necessary. That is a good assign from you - shows you banked a lot of fitness from 6-foot. 

    Really excited for you with the imminent race, hamo. Hope the English is as fast. Super running in recent weeks.


    Windy grassy reps today, donning the Adios for the first time since the grumbly Achilles. Not fast, but a solid session: 3 x 4:30 (3:00 jogs), 2 x 3:45 (2:30). 9.9M all in at 7:45 pace. 

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited March 29
    Those coastal 20s were a long time ago now SQ but I have done a couple of back-back hilly 3hr runs/MLR weekends so I’ve plenty of endurance but not so much speed endurance. I’ll do 20-22 next weekend but that’ll be it as I doubt doing 20 a fortnight out will be more beneficial than fatiguing.
    Nice grass reps.
    Sounds like another exhausting weekend Hamo. Hope you get to Wrexham.
    Good to hear from you John. Good to shift the focus back to speed.
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