Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie G said:
    I think I remember the name, pretty fast.

    Talking about pretty fast, one of my segs from the morning lasted...until this evening!

    The kid took the 400m residential loop down from my 1.12 to 1.08.
    Apologising to me in the title of the run!

    Wished him well and said I think i'm done as taking that down would be a ruining effort. Got to learnt when to call it a day on some segs!


    You're getting soft. The segment is 0.24 miles so under a lap and that means a decent time is under 60 seconds. Anything over 60 seconds is a gentle tempo run. The guy isn't even a  dedicated runner, plays round with bikes and footballs as well. 
  • Did the mile this morning at the track. Was surprised to see the gate open so I didn't have to climb over the fence but I got just before the start of a Wycombe Phoenix track session. Pretty pleased with 6:15 for the mile: would have liked sub-6 but I was told "do it and get off" so I couldn't do a proper warm-up. I need to get a few more track sessions in to get the pacing sorted out as I am not used to flat and fast these days. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    I think I remember the name, pretty fast.

    Talking about pretty fast, one of my segs from the morning lasted...until this evening!

    The kid took the 400m residential loop down from my 1.12 to 1.08.
    Apologising to me in the title of the run!

    Wished him well and said I think i'm done as taking that down would be a ruining effort. Got to learnt when to call it a day on some segs!


    You're getting soft. The segment is 0.24 miles so under a lap and that means a decent time is under 60 seconds. Anything over 60 seconds is a gentle tempo run. The guy isn't even a  dedicated runner, plays round with bikes and footballs as well. 
    Feel free to get down there and show me how it's done son  :D
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Did the mile this morning at the track. Was surprised to see the gate open so I didn't have to climb over the fence but I got just before the start of a Wycombe Phoenix track session. Pretty pleased with 6:15 for the mile: would have liked sub-6 but I was told "do it and get off" so I couldn't do a proper warm-up. I need to get a few more track sessions in to get the pacing sorted out as I am not used to flat and fast these days. 

    You've got to get there early to be safe really. The few times I've had a similar "encouragement" from some stern coach, it normally makes the first rep or 2 turbo charged through stressiness, so I expect your first lap was 1.15 then reality hit home :D 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    It strikes me that the coaches at the Marlow track need to remember who paid for it in the first place!

    Decent enough mile Philip off no warm up.

    After ten days of not running I did a little hamstring tester today. Kept it short, easy and as flat as possible. It was OK, though not yet out of the woods.  Proof of the pudding will be how it is later today, but certainly no intention of running again until at least Monday.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 10
    I think it's like when cows have their young around, when coaches have u18s in their group, they absolutely brown themselves about "outsiders" being involved.  (or I'm still thinking about the MK race vids I just watched with their cow medals ;) )

    Even though it's pretty unlikely that someone turning up a track in running gear is going to be any sort of threat in any way. Though maybe the whole covid thing adds worry.

    But best avoiding any time they might be there.
    It does make me think I was pretty lucky in the peak days of this thread when track sessions had to be on designated days, and I often did them on the much more used old track in the evenings. Although in fairness, no club used the track Friday nights for good reason, and tempos were often on road or road loops on Tuesdays.

    Hope you come through it soon Bus. Need to have a race trip soon. We've probably only done a max of 2 in 3 years now isn't it? Wokey 2018 and 2020? Maybe a couple of Marlow 5s in there in fairness too, but not much more.
    A far cry from when we'd often turn up at the same events. 
    Your race totals must have been pretty low this last 3 years or so as a whole? Not the V50 pot hunts you should be looking at :)
    Maybe when you're back we can do some joint pot hunts post July when I slip into proper vet territory (having flirted with V35 which counts as vet at relays and track!)

    This font to write is bloody annoying. Too small innit!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    It certainly is!

    Discounting parkruns, I've only done 5 races since turning V50!  I did have the idea that I'd hover up all the V50 prizes in the local cock and biscuit jobs, but soon found out that v50 is even more hotly contested than 45!   That and Covid and the racing mojo has really gone south!


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    At the moment, there is no pothunting at even the most c&b level races, as seen by me coming 13th in a 5k in an event not put on by a running club, featuring 4 different distances!

    That's the sort of event that the quality is usually diluted between the different distances, with the shorter race usually being the lowest..
    Heck, even F3 events were getting numbers of 15xx 5k runners :D 

    Add in the fact there's usually plenty of other races going on around the time, that further dilute it.

    BUT, from May onwards races will pick up, and then summer onwards we should be smothered in them again. Perfect timing for you to be over niggles.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Weighed up driving somewhere different for a run today, but in the end stuck to out of the door.
    Up to Holtspur, and then towards Marlow, and at about 9miles up the climb into the trail and woods route that I took ages to work out. A min's pit stop (!), first one of those for a while - often having too much fuel a the HR creeps up climbing a hill.

    Through a field that suddenly had sheep in it for the first time, one of them eyeing me up suspiciously from his position 2 yards from the gate I was needing to go through.
    I suddenly started thinking back to the South Downs 100 ultra video I'd watched yesterday, where someone said they'd been "charged" by a sheep, but then thought it is just a sheep, not a cow, bull etc, and on we went.

    Nice downhill at 11, and then flat mile to end, and all in for a standard sort of 7.16 pace.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Thats sharp pace for off road SG, no wonder you wouldn't want to run longer runs.

    Last long run here yday (20m), hopefully Jools and SG were doing similar.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11
    Just to clarify, the first 9miles or so were nice smooth road, albeit one climb for a mile or so in there, and then the last 2miles or so were down and flat road.
    This isn't a Jools style 3,000 feet all offroad job :D 

    When I put in a 77 half in 2018 the basis was about 7 or 8 x 15milers all low or even just under 7 (all flat routes), without any particularly targeted HM stuff either. Instead doing some of the random sessions the club put on in a group.
     It worked well as I'd do them on a Thursday morning pre work in Slough to Windsor, and then race XC on the Sunday.
    Would be interesting to see if that was a decent program or just happened to work well that time for whatever reason.

    Back at you, i can't imagine cruising 20milers out, just the idea of perhaps 3hours on feet just sounds a nightmare unless you use it for a jabber with a pal.

    Though Mee Meep, who used to post did about 6hours today :o 


    SQ i imagine you meant? ;)

    Was wondering how on earth we'd had only 1 post on a Sunday by 7.28pm!

    We really need to spruce things up with some new posters becoming regulars I think, I know we have a number of lurkers only.
    Not sure if they think they need to run 50+ miles a week, or post super fast stuff to contribute, but they really don't.

    So lurkers - feel free to say hello - and join in :)
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Oh i see, i thought it was all trail.

    I only cruised the first 1/2 of my 20 at 8:XX pace (didnt bother checking the exact time), 2nd 1/2 was approx mp +10% which came out av 7.17. More enjoyable than a cruise yday, but sometimes a cruise is enjoyable too.

    You might get some other posters when races come back a bit more.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Heck no, that'd be a tough one like you say! 

    I've been watching some youtube videos of ultras, and listen to a podcast about them (not getting sucked in obviously!), and saw that the Thames Path 100's female course record is held by a well known local based runner.

    She did 16hours, which is about 6.25miles per hour, so sub 10 pace, but not by a lot.

    It sounds very slow, but all of the videos i've watched have the person walking a lot, and a walk can obviously drop you well into the mid teens or 20min miling pace, so it's a heck of a mission.

    This woman's other half I remember setting off at 8min miling when he attempted the 100, and he's a guy properly operating at 5.30 pace for a half marathon, so 8 is very very slow for him. And he still ended up 10min miling average.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Have noted 4 races from the fairly small choice available to the end of May. Hopefully will do at least 3.
    Hopefully it will be like last autumn's brief spell back, in that you can knock the time down as you do, after a loosener or two as you remember the intensity needed.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Monday's morning run is never exactly a flood of motivation, but it was snowing today. April 12th. Behave!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Should have waited until this evening - it's going to be sunny and 10 degrees :smile:

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Cricket season, what do you expect, SG?

    Yesterday at the real Old Trafford: 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    One of those flimsy sports that a spot of rain can stop play. But snow in mid April is quite something.

    Bus - a little 4mile doddle at lunch should be warmer then!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Could be worse, it could be June! 1975, which ended up being a hot summer and snow stopped play, Derbyshire v Lancs. Might even have stopped football or road racing: 

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/cricket/you-think-weather-bad-snow-11261298

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Impressive from Dean - although he's really a good road runner who is very good on the track too! Annoyingly quick though, getting left behind over the road at the moment here! Mick Hill is ridiculous tbh, but was a quality runner in his earlier days too. That's the issue if you haven't got that pedigree when you were a kid - you are always up against those who start running again when they are a bit older...

    The XC on Saturday was good. Very dry one lap 5 mile course. Not much real drama to speak of, the rolling start was a bit weird..started in 12th I think and ended up 9th. Ran a couple of miles with Nick, the Chiltern harrier V50 guy who just does 800's and xc! Nice guy though, raced him a few times. Left him on about halfway, then was on my own after that. Course was a bit longer than in October as the times weren't much different. Didn't get chicked this time....mainly because Jess Judd didn't turn up ;)

    Nice 14.87 miler yesterday..glad to have missed the snow this morning too! Much better week last week, feel like things are progressing now.


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good work Simon.

    Second hamstring test at lunch today. Just 3.3M and flat as I can get round here.  Not a disaster, but sore enough towards the end to know any further would have been a mistake. So, not out of the woods yet (or more correctly I suppose, not into them!)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13
    Better than nothing Bus, keep it going, if anyone has the experience of coming back from niggly stuff it's you.

    Rolling start at an XC must feel even odder than in road races SC!
    The whole game is places in those races.
    However, it's all better than nothing right now.


    Felt a bit tired when waking up. I blame fantasy football, if anyone has ever played it. You can imagine with my character how obsessed I get with it in different leagues, and sometimes you can stew on it :D 

    The triviality we get involved in eh!!


    Anyway, I fancied reps on the road today for some reason.

    So planned my 6x 0.5m off 90secs there.
    No particular loop or route, just a 2mile warm up - then 3 reps out, and 3reps back.

    2.49
    2.54
    2,49
    2.51
    2.51
    2.49

    Second one was badly placed as I had to shimmy through a couple of gates across some lights, and then slow to get through 2 cars :D 
    You can see the difference in pace that made!!!

    So i'll excuse that from the average, which is otherwise a pretty conclusive 2.50, and thus 5.40 pace


    Threw in a 400metre after, which again was a bit rucked by circumstances, but finished with
    8x1min off 1min, which hit nicer paces down the 5s

    Got into a nice routine with some guy out running a half marathon, where i'd monster past and then recover and he'd carry on past again.
    Had a chat in one of the later 1min rep recoveries when he's stopped too.


    So 5.40 pace. Would come out quicker on the track I'm sure, but a good variety to do it somewhere different with more factors to overcome.

    The last 5k race was 17.49 which I think is around 5.45 pace, so reps a bit quicker than race performance probably sounds about right.
    Plenty of work to do though to drill this lower down the 17s this summer.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Impressed with the mile time off no warm up, Phil. 

    SG - regular XC races, 15M long runs and club nights would certainly get most runners in very decent half marathon shape. Was that 77 your PB? 

    Great XC racing, SC. Must have felt good to get back out there. 

    Frustrating for you, Bus. 

    Just reinstalled Notes on my phone, having instead used Evernote for a couple of years. Tired of the lag when opening Evernote. Anyway, one of the more recent notes was a ‘ten positives to take into Abingdon 2018’. God I’m keen 😆. Actually quite daunting looking at it, with highlights including: 

    1. Massive mileage: 15 70M+ weeks. 6 80M+ weeks. Peaking at 87M. 
    2. 13 20M+ runs. Including 2 x 24 and one 23. 

    After Wednesday’s big 24.5M session, it seemed sensible to have a few days easy before a 5k hit out. Probably went one day too soon, and made quite a rushed decision to do it late on Sunday afternoon, but a slot opened up. 18:40 or so, which is reasonable completely solo. Might have another go in a week, 5-7 days before Shepperdine. 

    And for the first time since mid-December, today was a zero 😱. Lots of family stuff, including a fun and sunny afternoon in the forest. 

    Planning on a significant chunk at MP effort tomorrow. 

  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭

    SQ - You do need a day off now and again. I probably have one off every 2-3 weeks

    SG - Good repping there. It's great having a runner to have a quick chat with when you are out!

    Bus - Good luck with the hammy!

  • I see a new 50k world record for Des Linden

    https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a36100545/des-linden-50k-world-record/

    The old record was 3.07 by Aly Dixon.

    I just get puzzled by the 50k distance which is, in my opinion, not a distance at all. You basically have a marathon as a recognised distance and that is the last real race distance as you move into ultramarathon which is a long moving picnic. If you are a proper marathon runner then running 42 or 50 km is no difference so there should be some sort of demarcation between the end of the marathon and the start of ultras for proper so 50 miles looks like a sensible place for ultras to begin.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14
    Decent effort, but I suppose he's had plenty of time after leaving Match of the Day.

    Maybe it's because If I even dared look at long races I'd go 50k to dip in, but 50miles, 100miles, they're just built on it being a round number, so no different with km really.

    I watched a youtube vid of the South Wales 100miler last night. Actually 105miles, and only about 20 people did it.

    The winner was annoyed at himself for doing 1mile extra having taken a wrong turn, but unlike the Thames Path, which is easy to follow, or the South Downs Way, which has tape to follow, there didn't seem to be any clues on route, so navigation must be a huge part.

    One bit he turned randomly at some woods, then took a left into what just looked like a hedge.  24hours + he won it in, and people were taking 40hours.

    19,000+ feet over 106 miles, so that can't be too far off 200 feet a mile of climbing the whole way!!
    Basically running up Marlow Hill every single mile, for 100+ miles.

    Unbelievable.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14
    Sorequads said:

    Impressed with the mile time off no warm up, Phil. 

    SG - regular XC races, 15M long runs and club nights would certainly get most runners in very decent half marathon shape. Was that 77 your PB? 

    Great XC racing, SC. Must have felt good to get back out there. 

    Frustrating for you, Bus. 

    Just reinstalled Notes on my phone, having instead used Evernote for a couple of years. Tired of the lag when opening Evernote. Anyway, one of the more recent notes was a ‘ten positives to take into Abingdon 2018’. God I’m keen 😆. Actually quite daunting looking at it, with highlights including: 

    1. Massive mileage: 15 70M+ weeks. 6 80M+ weeks. Peaking at 87M. 
    2. 13 20M+ runs. Including 2 x 24 and one 23. 

    After Wednesday’s big 24.5M session, it seemed sensible to have a few days easy before a 5k hit out. Probably went one day too soon, and made quite a rushed decision to do it late on Sunday afternoon, but a slot opened up. 18:40 or so, which is reasonable completely solo. Might have another go in a week, 5-7 days before Shepperdine. 

    And for the first time since mid-December, today was a zero 😱. Lots of family stuff, including a fun and sunny afternoon in the forest. 

    Planning on a significant chunk at MP effort tomorrow. 

    Not the pb, or even the 2nd quickest (75.41 and 77.11 respectively), but those were 2013 and 2015, and back when I didn't even give a second thought to the distance.
    2015 obviously being the funny year of putting a 77.11 half in in March, and then having a nightmare engine drop off, and collapsing over the line at Wycombe in July, loads of doubts/heart tests and taking a couple of years to build the confidence up to even try a half again. 

    That's why despite doing loads of races after wards, and getting sign off of being fine, that mid 77 at Wokingham in 2018 felt an absolutely perfect result - went brilliantly. That really was "Monkey off back" fare to do the HM distance again,  successfully.

    2020 was ok - got round no problems, but the wind hijacked it and ended up scraping in sub 80.

    In good conditions I dare say probably a 78xx sort of fare I suppose. But 2018 was brilliant to be back.



    You've booted some incredible mileage out in your time! 87mile peak wow.
    I think my sweet or should I say "habit" spot is 60ish, perhaps peaking high 60s if I'm doing tempos for HM training.

    I take a day a week off, and it serves as a mental break from relentlessly getting out there every day, plus easing a bit of fatigue off at times.

    In the Moz training days, that break after the midweek long on a Wed morn, until the next run on Friday was always a highlight of the week!
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    I see a new 50k world record for Des Linden

    https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a36100545/des-linden-50k-world-record/

    The old record was 3.07 by Aly Dixon.

    I just get puzzled by the 50k distance which is, in my opinion, not a distance at all. You basically have a marathon as a recognised distance and that is the last real race distance as you move into ultramarathon which is a long moving picnic. If you are a proper marathon runner then running 42 or 50 km is no difference so there should be some sort of demarcation between the end of the marathon and the start of ultras for proper so 50 miles looks like a sensible place for ultras to begin.


    My only requirement is that it should be just run in one go. None of this going for a sleep rubbish you get with the Thames loop etc..
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    That s a very impressive half time, SG. Wasn’t aware of the heart tests. Must have been a very worrying time. Pleased you resurrected the stellar running again. 

    I definitely find running itself to be mental break, and have noticed myself getting angsty if I haven’t run. However it is definitely good to break habits every now and again. Helps give a more reasoned sense of perspective. 

    The 87M weeks seem a long way off!

    Did a 50k once. Didn’t give it the respect it deserved. Hot day and I stupidly under hydrated. Absolutely broke me and staggered in. The only race that I would have gladly hopped in a broom wagon had it been on offer. 

    So, the world didn’t fall in with a rest day and felt quite refreshed today. Who’d have thought?!

    Had a long booked in kid free few hours today. Took the little one swimming at 8am and then dropped him off at his grandparents for the day. Fully psyched up, I took a caffeine high 5 tablet, donned a pretty fresh pair of 4% and headed off of a planned 16-17M with a good chunk at MP effort. Feeing good! 

    15 minutes in - got a call to say he’d cut his head. Another trip to MIU for glue and zero chance of a properly relaxing day. I looked a bit of a weapon in some bright running clothing and one high viz calf sleeve 😆. 

    So an unexpected double: 4M total after the abort and then got out again at midday. 

    Still felt good so after a mile warm up, headed into what is probably just harder the MP effort. Saw a few 6:30s on the clock, but with a downhill tailwind first half. Kept it going pretty well, only slipping to a little over 7s with the return bite. Settled on a half marathon at this effort which was about 1:27. 15M at 6:48 average total.

    Good confidence booster before the race. Conscious that I pulled out most of the tricks today though so unlikely to be any extra in the bag on race day - cheaty shoes, carbs, caffeine, a rest day. But st least my body is again familiar with a sub seven minute mile. 

    So 19 for the day, which is probably a bit punchy 10 days out, but it felt good. The little lad is being a trooper. Definitely feel quite sexist being much less worried about a scar on his head than his sisters’. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I border everyone relentlessly with it on here over the years in question :D 
    But came through it, and have a new appreciation just of turning out - and even more so now with the pandemic!

    There's been some strong races since, but a lot of ones just as they came, and a glorious 2018 with about 32 races I think it was, but also hitting a sub 17 5k again.

    The main problem this year is the structure of the year is out the window. Usually you might say, consolidate the start of longer runs through Jan, build to a Mid Feb/March HM, and then see that fitness through a 5m/10k, and then enter your summer stuff.

    It's sort of a mishmash this year and doing the 5k training a bit early without the full base. But it is what it is

    Well done on still getting your runs in round life, and 19 days out is probably just about far enough out.
    Hopefully that scar merges more into the skin tone over the years. I remember being gutted at some chicken pox scars at 25, but overtime they've "skin coloured" up, although if I shave very closely I can see a couple. However, a bloke pushing middle aged years, who was never a pretty boy anyway, not the biggest thing!
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