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  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    As above I've been adopting (slowly) the Aussie 'complex' model. Longer term my aim is for my week to be (this is main runs only): Hills / Long / Easy / Mona fartlek / MLR / Deek 5km (aka Deek Quarters) / off or recovery with wife and dog.

    I'm alternating the different hill run days (based on a number of sources) for a bit of variety (sj/TR - please chip in if other options or more info on these have come up on the podcast).
    1. a standard 6-10 reps (using my 430m hill for this one; 5 reps last week).
    2. 2m tempo + 4 x 40s hills + 4 x 1min hills.
    3. a continuous hilly run - I've got a loop in mind for this, plus a back up one if that one is overgrown in parts.

    Today was #2. 1.5m tempo (5:49), v.v. slow 1/2m jog, then 4 x 40s hard uphills. Hard work in this heat, particularly the uphills as I attacked them from the start (Deek recommendation).

    Will do my first double in a while later (introducing them on the hill day and fartlek day this week) which will be super slow!
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Toothache is nasty Jooligan, my last episode 3 years ago was temporarily eased by my supply of tramadol until I got proper treatment.  Appointment tomorrow for a check up, it's at 2pm so I narrowly avoided the legendary toof-hurty slot.😁  Good that the weekend weather is promising for you.
    OO.. Great to see you're enjoying the time off, bike & swim should keep you in trim.
    My off road routes have a lot of less than obvious rights of way; yesterday I passed through 2 active farmyards plus the palatial estate of Humphrey Smith (Sam Smiths head honcho).
    TR.. I don't mind a warmish 2nd half of a marathon as long as the 1st half is a cooler start - unlike VLM 2018!
    Jools.. nice 16 miler yesterday,  pity about the hay fever - does it make running around industrial/business parks any more appealing? 🤔

    A bit breezy today so not as warm as the last few days.  Enjoyed a 10k run this morning after the legs eased up after a couple of miles.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 14
    OO - some cycling and swimming sound great at the mo.

    TT - i like the idea, keep rotating what works, thats wat the old school aussies did. Theres defo some old school aussies interviewed in the archives of those podcasts, most of them repeat consistency and doing simple repeatable sessions/weeks. Lee Troop and Shaun Creighton will be less well known. Creighton was big on saving a bit in training for race day. Both are good interviews (early episodes), troop trained with Mona.

    Wardi - i guess i have a toss up between warm or windy (again), its a very rural and exposed location so more likely to be windy than hot.

    A very warm 10m home this evening.
  • The hydration vests do make you hot, but it's worth the trade off for the water. I got through 1 litre on my warm up and 12 miles of tempo yesterday, had to refill them in the leisure centre before my cool down. 
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Funnily enough Wardi, my appointment was at 2:30. When I laughed the receptionist seemed non-plussed 😆
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 14
    Id carry a bottle (or 2 as per last wks 21m) for a tempo run rather than wearing an ultra vest, better race day practice too as theres no way id wear the vest in a race. I commute run in my ultra vest as i dont like running with a rucksack, but i was pretty warm in it running home tonight at 5pm. Good warm weather training though with a t shirt, ultra vest and cap on.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    edited June 15
    TR - I'm aware of both. I think Troop trained under Jonesey for a while. Creighton was very much in the Deek camp of 'undertraining', though he reckoned on a good day he was covering a 7km lap during his Mona fartlek.
    Jooligan - your appointment time made me laugh.
    Long run up to 14m today - 6 @ 8:00, 5 @ 7:23, 3 @ 7:00. Definitely going in the right direction.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 15
    Good stuff TT, that approach of leaving a bit in the tank could be just the job for you. I remember troop satimg theyd have some pizza or fish and chips with a couple of beers before training on a friday evening.

    10m inc 14x3min for me this morning,  last session of that for a while, next week is a taper time mp.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Good session in the 10 miler TR, did that feel comfy enough?

    TT..  nice progressive run, good progress, I'm up to 14m at present.  BTW a 'toof hurty' style tale from the vet world that might give your Mrs a giggle.  Many years ago I took my parents cat to the vet, it had a large lump on it's neck following a fight.  The vet lanced it without ceremony at which point unpleasant fluids spilled out. Without cracking a smile he then declared .. 'just as I thought, it's full of pus'. :)

    9m today, perhaps lucky that the sun dipped under a cloud for much of it so not as hot as I was expecting.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 16
    Wardi - comfortably hard more than comfy, its a session that grows on you!

    8m early doors on tired legs after ydays reps, but not very warm then. Had physio just now, routine back and hammy loosening, said i was in better shape than i usually show up in.
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    Jools - hope the hayfever is more under control? 

    Jooligan - hope the dentist app sorts the issue. You don't need that for the event on saturday. Weather looking cooler on the long range forecast as you say. 

    OO - glad to hear the running reset is going well so far. 

    TT - enjoying seeing these old-school training sessions you are doing. Coincidentally I've been reading a Lydiard pdf I had kicking around my documents folder. It's an uncomplicated business running. Those older methods are loaded with good old fashioned graft. Highlights how soft I am in many ways. You're definitely headed in the right direction. 

    Wardi - my navigation isn't the best so it's just as well the rights of way in the Peak district are very well marked/established. Nice sun avoidance. Humid hot here last couple of days. Sticky. 

    TR - nice commute miles and that 14x3 mins session must have felt nice to finish knowing the icing is almost complete... again :) Good news from the fizz. 

    My left ankle is not easing as I had hoped. Hasn't stopped me running but aches a bit and is noticeably weaker than my right. I struggle doing single leg calf raises on the left for example. 

    However, once running I seem to be going along nicely. Easy run Monday, 10 last night with 5 at tempo (6:25) and 14 and a bit tonight which was tough on tired legs and humidity levels high. 




  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SJ - thats a good few days running, hopefully that ankle loosens off soonish, you're going well at the mo training wise.

    Brighton 1/2 which was supposed to be a normal race at the end of june has been moved to Oct. Im doubting the bigger races happening in Sept/Oct given the predicted spikes in cases. Not sure when any postponement decisions have to be made. Even if some sort of wave start system is put in place, theres stil the spectator numbers at the likes of vlm and brighton. Ive got a rolled over Abo number which might come in handy.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    SJ.. that tempo run suggests your ankle niggle ain't anything too serious.  In the meantime try an ice pack for 10-15 minutes twice a day and see if it makes any difference.. 
    TR.. nice early morning run, nice to hear your body MOT went well.
    10 hot miles this morning, in the end I chose an exposed route with a breeze rather than a sheltered route with no breeze.  23-25 degrees during the run, kept telling myself that you have to run in heat to adapt to it.  Enjoyed it in the end.
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    SJ: the hayfever is not improving just yet, unfortunately: I was nice and blotchy after this morning's 13 miler! 

    In terms of improving ankle strength, walking on tiptoes (slowly, tiny steps) is a great exercise for this.  Alternate 30s walking on tiptoes with 30s walking on your heels (toes pointed up as much as you can manage) so that you are strengthening both the calf and shin muscles.  And (simple as it may sound) just standing on one leg.  Then try standing on one leg whilst you move the other leg (through a sort of running motion, i.e. raise to the front with a bent leg and then - keeping the lifted leg bent - extend behind you).  Then try standing on one leg with your eyes closed.  Then standing on one leg with one eye closed whilst you move the other leg.  Then try those exercises standing on a cushion or Bosu ball to introduce extra instability.  It'll help reactivate and strengthen all of the smaller muscles in the foot and lower calf.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    TR - I'd love to have pizza or fish and chips, plus beer, after a training session. Before would have me chucking up during it! Sounds like you're coming around?
    sj - I know the pdf. It's a good one. I've got another Lydiard one somewhere (via Barry Magee) which also covers the difference between men and women's base training. Nice running.
    Wardi - I seem to have adapted to the heat quite quickly but most of my running has been fitted in in the middle of the day so no choice really; lol.

    Swapped my rest day from Sunday to yesterday for this week and we took ourselves off to the beach, with a hike up and over from Lulworth Cove to Durdle Door, and back (it has become an annual pilgrimage for us).
    Covered 3.28m during today's Mona - 0.08m better than last week. 5:29 for the fast (6s imp), 6:51 for the float (14s imp). I attacked it a bit harder from the off so the 4 x 15s at the end were more hanging on than kicking on like last week (still dipped sub-5 for the last one though). Really starting to enjoy this session.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    sj - found it. Not a lot of info in there really, other than the two basic schedules (the men's one should be what's in the pdf you're reading). Not sure if you've found anything that clarifies the efforts to pace, so if not here's what I got from Barry for the base phase paces:
    1/4 effort aka 60-70%: MP+50-90s (they typically averaged less than +60, but he figured some people should run slower).
    1/2 effort aka 80% : MP+30-40s
    3/4 effort aka 90% : MP-MP+10s.
    He always emphasised running to effort rather than trying to hit a pace.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    TT - sounds like a good day out yday. Nice one on the Mona, good to see you posting regular running with nothing spoiling it.

    Wet 10m home tonight.
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    edited June 17
    TT.. good tactic going to a popular beach on a weekday!  Nice paces in the Mona session.
    TR.. nice 10, a bit of rain overnight here but a dry day.  
    Good 13 miler in the bag Jools.
    A bit cooler/fresher today so my 10k this morning was a bit less sweaty than of late.
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    Wardi - yeah running on it at speed seems fine. Afterwards some discomfort, aching more than anything. Conscious that I'm possibly doing it more harm than good tho'. Trying everything at the moment. Nice cooler running miles for you after the warm 10 midweek. 

    Jools - thanks for all those tips. I put some into practice this afternoon. Heels and tip toes drills in particular seemed to ease it. Hope the cooler weather eases your symptoms. I grew out of hayfever in my early twenties. Occasionally get the stinging watery eyes though. 

    TT - likewise, thanks for the pace info. I agree re running more to effort. I use my HR quite a bit to corroborate effort level. I never did the Mona fartlek consecutively but I can see the benefit from comparing previous efforts to gauge improvements. I fancy another crack at it. 

    TR - I bet you quite enjoyed the soaking tonight after some warm running recently. No sign of any rain here, must be getting on for three dry weeks now. Abingdon in reserve is a good shout. My lads 18th that day so not sure I could swing that one passwd the committee. 

    A slower 6 miles recovery tonight so dns first of the club 5k series. It's quite a twisty course wo my ankle wouldn't benefit from that.

    The ankle grumbled again early on during my job then I forgot about it. Aching again now. Foam rolling the hell out of my calf eased it but it was quite painful to do. I'll give it the weekend then book an appointment. Feels like something needs to be free'd up/manipulated. 

  • How nice was the cooler air today? I didn't get rained on and I don't know if the promised thunderstorms actually happened or not, since I didn't get woken up by thunder or heavy rain, but the temperature has definitely dropped a few degrees and there was a nice breeze. 

    My 10 miler that I was planning to do in the build up to my half marathon has been moved. To 10 days after my half marathon....
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 17
    SJ - you wont get an abo pass then for sure. Not that youd want one.Hows your shoes ? Are you rotating shoe types ?

    CC - you'll be ok, youve been track racing thats got your legs spinning much quicker than hmp. Ive done 2 maras with no build ups and been ok.

    It was humid as well as rainy which was strange, but all warm weather training is gratefully received, as its not particularly warm when i run the morning commutes.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    Cheers TR. It has only taken me 44 years to learn some restraint!! :D Nicely done on the wet run. I went for a swim today too!
    Wardi - it was actually surprisingly busy so looks like we weren't the only ones to have that idea.
    sj - as I read it the Aussie structure (got a good pdf from Chris Wardlaw on it actually) was partially based around repeating the effort runs on the same days in the same places to measure progress.

    10m today as a MLR. 7 easy, 3 'fast' (~MP+20s). Proper wet out there but a lot of fun. I'm starting to feel a bit more like my old running self again.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Good going TT, was defo a wet day today!

    We've had some rain in the last 24hrs ! Copped an absolute soaking on my 10m run in this morning and again on the bike vommute home.

    Last long run for a while tomorrow.
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    TT - yes I recall from the pod there is a lake runners, including Moneghetti use in Ballerat. I gather it has km markings and is used for measured sessions. Pretty cool having Olympians training routes available for all. There are other 'famous' training loops in other areas that current aussie elites use. I dont know of anything like that in the UK. 

    TR - I have 4 pairs of rides in rotation. 1 pair has ~ 300km, one pair has <150km, the others are high but only used for jogs. I wonder if running in same model is overly stressing certain muscles/tendons. Just going to carry on stretching, strengthening etc. 

    Speedy - you still doing Aintree? I have a place for that in September. Cool running here too now. Very nice. 

    11 and a bit tonight. Felt good after some stretching and rolling this afternoon. Ankle loosened up to enable one leg calf raises. Best its felt for a day or two. Rolling has my calves pulsing afterwards and eyes watering. Must be general tightness causing the ankle stiffness. 

    A couple of ipa tonight. Neighbour has a barrel on tap in his lockdown bar he built. I pass my glass over the fence, it comes back filled up. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 18
    Nice one on the ipa SJ, yes defo get another shoe like a pegasus which is 10mm drop instead of the ride 8mm. Use your speeds for sessions. Rotate different types of shoe to activate your lower legs and feet differently. I rotate shoes nowadays (instead of same shoe for months until its ruined,), but not the same model of shoe. Rides are a lightweight shoes, not a plodding shoe for me. You have also come from a atability shoe, so might need a shpe like that for ploddy days?
  • saintjasonsaintjason ✭✭✭
    TR -  yeah good points re the same model of shoes. I will get another pair of Guides and rotate those in too on longer days as you say. I must say I'm tempted to get a pair of the Foam X shoes from NB. I've fallen for the marketing clearly :) 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SJ - i use my rides for quicker long runs, any sessions and the odd mlr, as i use them on marathon day. Funnily enough i had an achey ankle in my rides today (i remembered it being achey late on at Goodwood too), but it was achey yday nd the Nikes i wore yday must be around 600m, my pegs are over 400, and my rides were over 400, so i got out the newest pair of rides today that i used at Goodwood in april.

    Final long run today, 10m av 8.28, 10 av 7.20 (~mp +10%). 1st 10 were a chore, more enjoyable when i got rolling. Must have been about half the temperature of last saturdays mp run.

    Not sure where i am fitness wise, i feel less fit that i did for goodwood in april, but might freshen up nicely in the taper. Race day is in the hands of the weather God's anyway.
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    TR - good last long one. I often find the same with feeling better when I get moving a touch quicker. 
    sj - I'm with TR on the variety of trainers. I've currently got a pair of Brooks Launch, NB FuelCell Propel v2, and a pair of Nike (can't remember the model but whatever the cheapest pair with a plate were when they were first released - they were on offer in the outlet) on the go. I found when I was just running in the one model I was more prone to niggles.

    This morning was supposed to be Deek Quarters; the parkrun loop was flooded so I took to the road but I didn't feel fluid so called it on the second 400. Stuck on 5 x 1/1 instead as a light workout and weirdly on the 3rd 1 minute fast my paces picked up by 30-40s per mile. 
  • WardiWardi ✭✭✭
    Good work with the long run of '2 halves' TR, I guess you're approaching cotton wool time soon.  Agree with what you say about the taper, after a hard and often tiring campaign it should recharge you in the next 2 weeks.

    SJ.. I've been buying NB shoes for years but their shoe model names & numbers still baffle me on occasions.  FWIW I can't get on with the popular 1080 and the Tempo (which supposedly replaced my beloved Zante) I sent back - they were like clown's feet by comparison.  The Fuel Cell range seem popular with a lot of runners, I'm certainly enjoying the TC carbon offering.  Good luck with the ankle manipulations!  Oh, and it sounds like you've got a useful neighbor. 😋

    TT.. good to see you getting into a decent running rhythm again. Is your fibro condition fairly steady or does it fluctuate a lot?

    After a few 13/14 milers recently I took this up a notch today as conditions were a bit fresher.  16.3m done this morning, in the event it was a bit warmer than I expected so felt a bit dehydrated in the last couple of miles.  Lesson learned, I'll sort some water out for future longer runs.  A couple of Mexican Sol beers should help later.🍻



  • OuchOuchOuchOuch ✭✭✭
    Looking forward to Jooligans report when he gets back on here, the boy done great!  Nice one Wardi on pushing on to 16m.
    Some great training going on, and from reading back we need to rotate our trainers as we rotate our IPA's- think I've got that right!

    0m for the week and starting to miss running, especially as the farmers have cut the grass in all the neighbouring fields so ideal to run on. A few more weeks.   
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