Shades Marathon Training



    Big G -  that sounds really complicated trying to assess how easy/ possible travel to NL is.  And further complicated by either or both , NL & UK, changing the rules at any time.

    Davey has confirmed my entry for 16th October, that's 4 in 4 weeks, Hullavington, Starcross, Top Gear in Wales, and Plym Trail.  Starting to feel like the old days, pre pandemic that is.  😄
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    After a bit of time on this thread and I still just can’t fathom 4 marathons in 4 weeks 😂

    6 miles this eve. Legs feel fine. HR diabolical but due to 4 hours sleep last night and 22 degrees so nothing sinister. I’m so happy the sun’s back. 

  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    You'll be OK for tempo, Rcouture - have fun with it. (And me neither... two marathons in six weeks is the closest I've got, and that was pushing it).

    Big G, that sounds like a giant pain in the bum.
    Customary two days off post-long run...I will go back to one day soon but after a week of crap sleep and feeling a lot more beaten up after my Wimbledon Common 15 than I did after the 13 last weekend, I thought it prudent. Elliptical and lower body rehab yesterday; today someone was on the elliptical so I did 20 mins on the handbike thing instead, plus upper body. 
    Resting HR has come down a few beats so I'm obviously getting fitter again, though I've still a long way to go.
    Rcouture said:
    After a bit of time on this thread and I still just can’t fathom 4 marathons in 4 weeks 😂

    6 miles this eve. Legs feel fine. HR diabolical but due to 4 hours sleep last night and 22 degrees so nothing sinister. I’m so happy the sun’s back. 

    Rcouture - you'll get used to it.  ;)  Entries open tonight for the 4 marathons in 4 days that we've been talking about, I'm not intending to do that, I don't do consecutive days anymore.

    Your legs will be nice and fresh for tomorrow's club run, you've recovered well.

    Cal - my legs were tired on Monday after my hilly Sunday run, but this morning they're wrecked after that bloody foam rolling.  :'(  I saw my Pilates instructor out running this morning but I didn't see her in time to verbally abuse her for the state of my legs.  

    Gym later.

  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I thought the purpose of foam rolling was to help with the soreness! Blimey!

    Today was a near repeat of my run last Wednesday, including Pollard's Hill, which I was ready for this time. Managed to get up it without walking this time, though not sure I'd call what I was doing a run, exactly. I just kept telling myself "short quick steps" and I made it.
    I changed it up a little after that - I took the longer path through Norbury Hall Park (I didn't realise I'd taken the short cut last week as it was my first time through) and then a different path through Norbury Park, up to Streatham Common (another hill) then decided on the fly to go up my old frenemy, Hill Path, which is a real bastard. I took it slowly.
    Unlike last week, I did throw in some fartlek-ish surges here and there and picked up a couple of Strava trophies on the quieter segments (most of which I'd created myself - I am a prolific segment creator). Annoyingly I'm just 1 second off a crown on Pollard's Hill so I will have to go back and get that once I'm a little fitter.

    Anyway, this will be a slightly lower volume week, with my Wimbledon Trail race next Wednesday evening. I'll likely do a shorter run on Sunday - 10 or 12 miles but no more than that. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I've never done a quad as the most I've done is doubles.  I'm not sure if it's something I want to get into really, but then the knowledge that the entries are opening tonight and the fact it's local(ish) can't be ignored!

    Cal, sounds like you're going well with the segments and another good run for you today too. 

    RCouture, great news you've recovered fine from the Half.
    Cal Jones said:
    I thought the purpose of foam rolling was to help with the soreness! Blimey!

    Cal - I know and as I know you use yours that's why I directed the post at you.    My legs aren't so much sore as really heavy and tired feeling, they felt weary walking home after Pilates yesterday and I just thought that would pass.    We've been told to practise at home, I won't that's for sure, I don't think the others in the class will either.

    I notice no mention of the hamstring, that's really good news.

    Big G - I thought you had done a triple at Foxy's?   It does say on Davey's website that we can enter as many as we like, doesn't have to be all 4.   :'(

    I only got into multiples as we used to have a very famous triple and because of school and bank holidays it wasn't possible to do that triple every year, so when it came around I couldn't resist, I hadn't even done a double before I did the triple.   It was more about the adventure of running 3 marathons in 3 days in 3 countries, getting the logistics right.   For me it was 950 miles of driving, I drove to Newhaven on the Friday to stay with friends, run Beachy Head (Eastbourne) on the Saturday, after the race drive cross country to North Wales ready to run Snowdonia on the Sunday, clocks always changed that weekend and that extra hour was so appreciated.   After Snowdonia back to hotel, sleep, get up at midnight to drive to Holyhead and get the 2 a.m. sailing to Dublin, bus to city centre, RO would have a special place for us to collect numbers then run Dublin Marathon.   After race back to ferry port and fast ferry back to Wales and hotel, sleep, drive home on the Tuesday morning.  Happy days.   Not possible to do that triple now as races have changed days.    But I've done some good doubles, North Dorset/Belfast and Limerick/Belfast and the toughest was probably Langdale/Tenby.   But I gave up doubles as it's not that pleasant standing on a start line with tired legs from the day before, having a day off in between really makes a difference.   The year that Snowdonia was cancelled on the day due to storms I'd run Beachy Head on the Saturday and then managed to get to Dublin for the race on Monday and despite having only 2 hours sleep I ran what was my 2nd fastest time ever, having done a PB at Abingdon the weekend before.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I DNS’d day 3. I’d walked an LDWA event two weekends before in muddy/tough conditions and wrecked my feet. After seeing a podiatrist who patched me up, I did successfully do a double the weekend after the LDWA event, and then turned up at Foxy’s the weekend after that, but it was damage limitation time by that point. Rather than hobbling around Day 3, I kept my hotel but got an early start and made good time on the journey home instead. I didn’t know it at the time, but those were the last 2 events I did as we were locked down the next week, but it was the right decision to DNS. 
    Big G - yes, you did the right thing with a DNS on Day 3.   I didn't realise that was your last event pre pandemic.  My last pre pandemic race was the Cornish.

    I've done the double at Connemara, Director's marathon on the Saturday and open event on the next day, some doubled doing the ultra on the Sunday but that was too tough for me.

    I see the Cornish is an anytime virtual this year, so has to be run on the actual course.

    Very quiet at the gym, next week numbers are set at 50, at the moment it's 25.   We still have to book but no longer have to wait outside to be let in and we can stay longer than the hour.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I haven't done many doubles; I just had to check my records and I've done 9, although I've done a few more with maybe 2 or 3 days in between.  Toughest was when I did North Dorset Village Marathon and then went up to Milton Keynes for the official marathon there, in hot conditions in a tough looking 4:11/4:50.  That was damage limitation and a "get it done, safely" job, so the times don't really tell the story as it was over 30deg at MK, which was waaaay too hot for me and many others (I've never seen so many walking, and I think the first aid people were fairly heavily used that day).  Quickest was a 3:43/3:50, and I would like to beat that at some point I suppose, but it's not a main goal or anything.  One that stands out from the 9 is when I did a track event in Telford and then drove down to Dorney for an event there, and I was pleased with a 3:56/3:52 that fact, it was a bit of an eye opener in some ways as the 3:52 felt quite "easy" (relatively!), as the legs felt really fresh on day 2, after running on the springy track the day before.

    Yes, I saw that too about Cornish.  We'd just done DD around the time of their announcement, but I suppose the club are being cautious and don't want unnecessary expenditure, which is fair enough.  Who knows where we'll be in the winter....  It does feel a bit like a double-edged sword with the easing of restrictions.  I want to return to normal, but the large number of cases seem a concern.  It is depressing me a bit really as at the moment I still can't see when we'll be able to travel abroad freely, which is the main thing I want to do.  I mean, I can't even go to NL easily, let alone other places that I'd really like to visit.  I am also worried about getting "pinged" by the app, as I personally know a number of people who have, including a few people at OH's work.
    Big G - that's a fair amount of doubles, I doubt I've done more than that.  That was hot at MK when you did that double.

    Every time I check the forecast for Frome on Sunday it's gone up, now saying 28, although shouldn't be quite that hot when I start.

    Just seen on FB the resurfaced path on Barnstaple half, looks good.  I can't do it as I have a race elsewhere that day.   Looking forward to running Barnstaple full in 2022 hopefully.

    Re the NHS app, I think it said on the news that the app will be moderated on Monday so as not to be quite so sensitive.

    I'm still doing my twice weekly lateral flow tests.
  • So er who joining me to more or less run around my former home back garden so to speak at Easter then??
    Yes I entered all 4, gotta get money's worth. I also knew where it was from the name on facebook alone. Shades you ever done Lanson Half?? 2/3rds the lap is the route of it. Yes i also guessed what the route would be too.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I saw the video of the course Keith, but would you say it's pretty flat (it looks it) and not too challenging?
    Keith - I've done Lanson Half a few times, I loved that race, killer hill near the end which I'm sure isn't in Davey's route.

    As I said before I don't do consecutive days any more.   I've entered Day 1 and Day 4, 50km both days, am trying to get to 100 ultras, not easy when I don't do off road.

    Big G - I looked at each day's entry and it seems only 5 spaces on individual days and 50 places in the Quadzilla.  So you might not want to dither otherwise you'll end up entering all 4.   :open_mouth:
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G/Shades - I think I got DOMS just reading all that 😀. I am also desperate to travel to see family and just change surroundings. I struggle to get excited about holidays in Britain at this stage which is a shame. 

    7 miles this evening. Absolutely scorching. Second outing for the Novablast 2 and I’m liking them. Stable enough for me and soft but not squishy. They feel a lot like the 1080s but with a bit more bounce. 
  • It's not massively sloped from memory. Would drop down right hand side back towards the farm shop then back upwards to go under the A30 and i would imagine its upwards back up to the top of the loop. Nothing evil from memory
    Rcouture - That's good about the Novablast 2, I just went to add it to my shoe 'wish list' only to find that it's already on the list.  :o   Good alternative for me to the 1080's.

    You'll find that visiting a place in the UK for a race can be quite surprising and enjoyable, as normally you'd never think to travel to that area.    Mind you there are some that are pretty grim too. 

    Keith - I just checked my race history spreadsheet and I've done Lanson Half 4 times.

    Rest day for me today.   I've trashed my legs this week, gym and that bloody foam rolling, so resting them today.  
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    How much do they weigh, Rcouture? 
    Hope your legs feel OK soon, Shades, yikes.
    And a super easy 5 mile recovery this morning. Saw a green woodpecker in flight, several foxes and a heron, and got to pet a very friendly rough-coated Jack Russell puppy just after I stopped.
    Cal - I just read this review on the Novablast 2 Asics Novablast 2 - Deals (£101), Facts, Reviews (2021) | RunRepeat

    I've dropped my gym visits from 4 to 3 a week and am upping the weights as much as I can now on just about everything and it's taking me longer to recover from these sessions than before.   My legs feel a bit tired today and definitely glycogen depleted too.  I am supposed to be doing a half on Sunday too, although still undecided as temp is now due to be 'feels like' 29 at the time I'm due to finish.  🥵
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Cal - 280g in men’s which is about the same as the 1080s though I’m not sure if you’ve run in them? It’s a bit on the heavier side but doesn’t feel clunky due to the bounce. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture/Robert, as a matter of interest, have you had a look into the Body Battery/HR Variability stuff on the Fenix?  If so, what do you think?  To me, it seems fairly accurate in that it knows obvious things like I would be tired after the marathon, but also slightly less obvious things like not being totally refreshed after a poor night's sleep.  Any thoughts on it?  My own worry is that I'm such a geek and seeing "poor" data before a run may impact that run, whereas if I hadn't seen it, the run may have gone okay (i.e, the type of person I am may mean that seeing the data prior to a impact the run adversely.  I'm thinking that before the 2nd event of my double it'll show a low "body battery" as I'm toeing the start line on the second day, and that could impact how I run I think, even though I've done doubles successfully before).  For that reason, I may turn it off, but I do quite like it.

    Shades/Keith, I'm still on the fence and I've not entered any of those events yet.  It may sound silly, but with the ones I've got booked, I could be up to 91 and then if I did those 4 it'd be 95.  I'm pretty sure I may find 5 to do between October and April, but ideally I wouldn't really want my 100th to be at one of those events.  I know if I dither I may miss out completely but that's okay.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    Big G - I don’t often pay attention to body battery because, as you say, I’ve found it’s just reflecting how I already feel and it’s mainly a function of time asleep more than anything else. For that purpose I find the recovery time function more helpful as thats more a function of cumulative training load as well as cumulative sleep over a longer period than just a day. What I would say in general is that the fenix has become much more accurate over time (which is also how it’s advertised). I’ve had it for 18 months and through most of my MAF only period last year the training status/race predictor stuff was all over the place to the point I just took it off my app screen. Today it’s very accurate. It thinks I can run a 3:28 marathon (vs 3:26 in may), a 1:34 half (vs 1:34:50 last week) and a 19:30 5k (vs 20:5 a month ago). And it was around the right levels before the races too so hasn’t just changed in hindsight. The changes in vo2max reflect that too now as does the heat acclimatisation. My run yesterday was in 25 degree weather and my HR was at least 8bpm above normal yet it still showed the run as ‘productive’ whereas it would have dinged me last year. It’s just a machine at the end of the day and personally I definitely wouldn’t train/set targets off the back of it but it does seem pretty dialled in at the moment. I wouldn’t get caught up in its readings until it has a bunch of data on you which in my experience took several months of running. 
    Big G - there is the facility to transfer places in the SF events.   He's now upped the individual days to 10 entrants ( 50 for the (Quadzilla) .   I know what you mean about race numbers working up to your 100th.  I might need to do some adjustments/extra events too as at the moment it looks like my 400th would be the Easter Monday, but that's no big deal.   It's your 100th that's important.   It's made no difference to my entries though as we may have another semi lockdown or restriction on racing in the winter so I'm determined to enter what I can.   Within reason though, as soon as I'd entered the 2 races Davey sent me a message asking if I wanted to do all 4...NO  ;)

    Re your watch, I have body battery on mine too, it's just a load of rubbish, isn't it, like the calories and sleep functions etc.   I think these watches with 'health style' features just makes hypochondriacs of folk.    If anyone needs a watch to tell them that they slept well or didn't and actually take notice of it, I think they need to get a life.    Folk see that their watch says they slept badly so they don't exercise, moan and turn into neurotics. 

    If you're seeing 'poor data' and it's putting you off your running, maybe better to turn it off, just use it for training.

    Rcouture - it's great that you're getting more accurate data from your watch, but it's nothing that you didn't know already.

    I've just started on the rest of my prep for IOM trip and it's taking ten times longer than usual.    Difficulty finding a hire car and very pricey, but have got a good deal now.   Soon as I'd booked online the dealer that handles rentals for the company I'd booked with phoned me and I've now managed to complete car hire check in procedure on the phone.   Only have to literally pick up the keys now.    They are very busy in the IOM with holidaymakers, I don't think my friend will be going as she hoped to take her car on the ferry and the prices are through the roof.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, as it happens, I checked the IoM ferry prices when you mentioned about the marathon, but prices were too high for me as well for the ferry.  I was thinking of taking the van, as I did see there are places available still.  Maybe another year.

    I forgot to say that I did 7 miles this morning.  Incredibly slow at my MAF rate :(  
    Big G - usually the IOM would be a good place to take the camper van, roads are fairly quiet and plenty of parking etc. Maybe next year 😊

    Usually my friend would book earlier, although she still leaves it fairly late,  and expect to pay £200ish for the car, staying for about 5 + days, but now the price is £356 and that's silly money really.   But flights are cheap and she could hire a car or go on the ferry as a foot passenger.

    I'm flying from Bristol, I checked a couple of weeks ago and price was about £75 return.

    I'm not looking forward to the airport experience though, Bristol I mean, IOM will be fine.
  • My only technical problem with this Quadzilla is where to stay ;) Oh and dinner spots.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    RCouture, interesting what you’ve found with your watch data by the way.  I’ll probably turn some of the displays off, but keep the watch collecting data to see how it gets on. 

    Hot day today, but decided to go down to a Tri running session at 7pm.  They’ve recently agreed with the Leisure Centre that they can have sole use of the Velopark with no other members of the public, or cyclists, on the track, so it’s good for intervals etc.  First time I’ve been down with the club for quite some time!  It was 500m(90secs recovery), 1k(2mins recovery) intervals for a total of 5K of effort.  Pretty pleased with these, all things considered!
    500  - 1:49
    1000 - 3:43
    500  - 1:51
    1000 - 3:42
    500  - 1:47
    1000 - 3:38
    500  - 1:41
    ...for a total of 18:11, which I was very surprised about, plus 2.5-mile warmup and 1.5-mile cool down, running to/from home.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    I also went down to the club for my first tempo session. It was a pyramid session of 15min, 10m and 5m with 3min rest so not too nasty. I enjoyed it so I’ll keep at it though probably not every week as I’d like to do some different sessions like 5x1ks on my own and there’s also a hills session the club run I’d like to try. Went for a drink with some in the pace group afterwards which was nice (even if I seemed to be about double their age 😬). 
    Keith - no Premier Inn at the finish line for this event.   I'm sure you'll find somewhere not too far away.

    Rcouture - good your first club session went well and you're already into the social side of it too.  I assume the sessions change every week.

    Big G - that's a great session you did with the Tri Club, I hope that's restored your confidence in your fitness.

    Have you decided about Frome yet?

    While out running my 8 miler this morning I've more or less talked myself out of going to Frome now.   I went out about 30 mins later today and it really felt like it was warming up a lot in the last 30 mins of my run, very humid too, 95% +
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well done, Rcouture. Sounds a great session and it’s nice to go for a drink afterwards. In my group yesterday there were a few ‘kids’ who had recently graduated from Uni and were back with their parents whilst looking for work. Yep, I felt old, too :) I remember graduating from Uni and it was quite a stressful time, but they seemed to be taking it all in their stride.

    Shades, I’ve more or less talked myself out of Frome too.  Part of me is saying just turn up and enjoy it and not worry about the time but I think I’d be disappointed if I was slower than the last time I did it, which is quite likely due to the conditions.

    6 miles this morning at a really easy effort. Very slow, but enjoyable. OH is off today so we’re going for a walk with Tigg and taking a picnic with us.

    Whilst out I was thinking about the Tri club and their set up. It’s really very good value and they’re well organised and ‘serious’ with their training, but still very welcoming and open to anyone, so it’s a great balance.  Access to the Velopark for members at any time of day is a really great bonus and they’ve negotiated a very good deal for use of the pool for members. I think in the last few months they’ve applied and won 2 or 3 grants, one of which was to go towards getting some buoys set up at Goodrington, which they can swim/train between safely (council approved etc). It’s 2 lots of 4 buoys making a wide lane about 150m long, and I believe the council install/maintain them (could be wrong on that). I think they’re currently seeing if they can get some temporary lighting set up at the Velopark so they can use it more during the winter. Almost makes me want to consider a Tri....emphasis on the word ‘almost’ ;)
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