Overdone it?

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  • McFloozeMcFlooze ✭✭✭
    Congrats on the 1sec improvement, Skinny!  

    Nothing much to report here - still finding it quite hard but managed 4 runs last week including a 15 mile long run (which was bloody hard).  Another couple of lbs down as well so lost a stone from peak-pandemic now. 

    How was the footie, DT?  I found the penalties hard to watch, as ever.  And I did cry at the end but only because I was just so heartbroken seeing the crestfallen look on poor Saka's face.  They are hardly more than babies themselves and taking so much crap from racist arseholes.  
  • 15mile run - well done McFlooze! They're the runs I need to build back up to - I think that kind of length really gives you the strength in your legs for all distances.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021

    Skinny, that's a decent outcome off the training and some good consistent splits. Hopefully now you can get a decent block of training in, leading into the next one.

    The footy was not quite the experience I hoped for. We travelled across London through Charring cross etc on tube and big groups of lads were all getting on and off around there. We'd already heard about 2pm that Wembley way was rammed and mainly with very drunk people. We got to Wembley about 4.30 and my mate had a text off a mate of his already there who goes to all England games to advise us to keep away from the area as it wasn't a safe or pleasant environment. He had managed to get into a hotel bar just by Wembley which was safe and so we blagged ourselves in there also and stayed until about 6pm. As soon as we got off the train at Wembley central you could feel the edgy atmosphere.

    What we witnessed, all whilst avoiding Wembley way, was atrocious. There was a nominal police presence outside the ground, mainly keeping the road clear for team buses to enter etc. There were huge volumes of people there without tickets, mainly in the 15-25 age group. They were scaling the walls to get onto the main concourse, which means that once there they had bypassed covid checks, bag checks and ticket checks. If a marshal left his post to give chase another 10 just scaled the wall.

    We then entered the concourse and skirmishes were breaking out. As we approached our gate it became a complete bottle neck a there was also a disabled gate close by. The many without tickets cottoned on to the fact that, that was a nice big space to enter, so every time it was opened to allow a wheelchair user in, a mini riot broke out with large organised groups charging the door, trampling anyone in their way. The queue to get in the turnstiles was turning into a crush and people were getting panicked (my kids would have petrified and in   tears at this point had they been there). The turnstile was unmanned and the reason fir the delay was people without tickets were all congregating around there waiting for us with tickets to open swipe ours then they would squeeze into the turnstile with you. A lad did just that to me despite me trying to stop him. I went straight to a marshal and told him and he just shrugged shoulders and said he couldn't help. We got to our seats and two very young lads were sat in the seats right next to us and immediately told us they didn't have tickets. Id also unwittingly managed to carry a full can of lager in as checks were non existent. my one mate stayed in seats and me and the other went to get some food. We came back 20 minutes later and there was no room anywhere. The aisles were rammed, shoulder to shoulder to shoulder with ticketless lads. Some had taken genuine ticket holders seats and when asked to move completely refused, quite aggressively. Luckily, we were the back row of our tier and so I was able to stand on my seat to watch the game. My two mates were a bit heavy to do that and one has a hip replacement operation in November that he has been waiting 2 years for and had to stand for 3 hours, which when you have paid £850 for top cat tickets is not great. There was a guy in front of me with a full sized rucksack on, you weren't allowed to bring bags in. All the people that got in bypassed security and covid checks. Not great when two heirs to the throne were 200m away! If there was an incident like a fire it would have been carnage. Afterwards we stayed in the ground as long as we could to allow the idiots to disperse.

    So whilst it was a great experience being at an event of that level, i'll stick with rugby in the future, and if I have tickets like that again and England are playing i'll just sell them and pocket the profit. I gathered evidence via photos before kick off and I will be making a s.75 claim on my credit card for ticket costs.

    A bit of a race report, without a race!

    Back to running, 8m tempo on Friday came in at 6.19mm for 158 bpm  which is pretty low given it was 20c. Equivalent stats to when it was 5c in February. Ticked over since as I have a local 10k tomorrow night. Not a fast course but a decent local event mainly occupied by club runners.

  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    That's really disappointing DT - particularly such a major event - sounds like Wembley security and set up isn't fit for purpose.

    Good luck for the 10k tomorrow.


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Tough course on a warm evening tonight. We started in groups of 5 based on predicted time. I went in group 2 and initially got dropped but then once the initial frenzy settled I started picking lads off. The first half was pretty fast but I knew it had to be as the 2nd half had a fair bit of climbing whilst first half had some decent downhills. 

    Splits went 5.47, 5.46 and 5.43 and through 5k in about 17.45. At about 3.5 you start climbing and there's a 2k persistent climb. I had taken a few places by then and found myself in 6th (though due to the nature of the race someone could have started 3 mins after me but run a minute faster, won't know until results uploaded). 

    Splits suffered second half and I was hanging on with what seemed like climb on climb with Splits of 6.06, 6.09 and 6.03. I stopped my watch on 37.10 and 5.56 average pace so as long as the complicated manual timing set up worked (I'm not convinced how spot on it'll be) I'll have a 12 ish second pb. Not the sub 37 I'm chasing but there won't be many other pbs there tonight. 
  • Excellent DT - those uphill mile times are super fast.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Thanks, Skinny. I guess sometimes you have to take a step back to see it. Averaging 6.06 on the uphill part of a 10k, when about four 10k races ago that would have been pb pace!

    I'm hoping I picked something up in the county champs, possibly v40 bronze and a team medal. Though such is the organisation of the county set up, you never actually see the medal!

  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    DT - A PB in hot and hilly conditions sounds good to me. Plenty more to come when you find yourself a flat, fast course in future. 

    I know as runners we tend to fixate on times/ pbs but looking back I think some of my best ever races were slower times ran on harder courses.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021

    Mr V, yes I am still confident that the right course and right day I could not only go for sub 37, but also be knocking the door for sub 36.

    On a further plus I am confirmed as v40 silver in county champs and if there is a teams award we will have also got silver. 37.11 official time for an 11s pb and 8th place.

  • McFloozeMcFlooze ✭✭✭
    I agree - super-impressive, DT.  And sorry it was a bit of a rubbish time at Webley, disappointing when you've spent a lot of money.  

    Bringing back some speed this week. 8 x 3min with 90 sec recoveries yesterday.  Still having to guesstimate paces.  But effort felt right and came out around 6:55/7 mm pace for each one so was quite pleased. 

    Today the plan was 45 mins "steady".  So I did the usual agonising about what "steady" means then decided it was slower than tempo maybe MP or little slower.  Again, not quite sure on what that is.  So decided to aim for 8:20s.  Bit of welly anyway given easy pace is about 9:30 at the mo.  Came out just under in the 8:teens but the last couple of miles were a suffer-fest with a bit of gaspy stopping so suspect I over-egged the pace a bit.   Anyway, it's a chunk of a bit faster running which at this stage in my return to running will probably do nicely as a bit of stimulus.  
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  • My training got derailed a bit last week as my youngest daughter who still lives with us got Covid (she's fine) and so we had to self isolate with her.

    I did run round the garden for 25 mins which I'm giving myself 3 miles for even though the garmin said it was only 1.7 miles but as the tracker map suggested I spent most of it running inside the next door neighbours house I don't think it was that accurate.

    6,2,6,2,0,3,0 for 19 total.

    This week 0,0, 8 (freedom)

    But gosh it was hot! My 8 was actually 5 run in 41 mins then I was feeling a bit lightheaded with the heat so walked 5/ran 10 * 2 for last 3 miles.


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Skinny, glad to hear your daughter is OK.

    It certainly has been hot. I did 8 miles on sunday with 8 easy then 2 x 4m at mara pace off 1m. I started at 8.30 but by the time I started the second block of 4m it was hot!

    Last day of it today though thankfully. I should hopefully realise an immediate gain from it as training through hot weather usually makes running in cooler weather seem way easier, until you re-acclimatise and I have a 20m race sunday morning when it will be 17c, cloudy, still and maybe showers so that should feel very night to plod around at mara pace.

    Supposed to be going on holiday next Friday but we discovered last Monday that my wife and sons passports have expired so immediately submitted applications to find it takes up to 10 weeks. We've never waited more than a bloody week for a new passport before, so we are very much in limbo, still planning to go but not knowing if we will!.

    If we won't, i'll probably get to a parkrun next Saturday to address that PB, if reports from this Saturday are positive.

    Easy 5m over lunch then rest day tomorrow.

  • Yeah I ran 5.5 this morning at 6:30 and it was a totally different experience - bowling along at 7:30s and hardly noticing.

    Good luck in the 20 and with getting your passports sorted.

    Post covid everything seems to take longer, is harder and costs more.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Decent run out yesterday, Weather was reasonable though there was a strong headwind in places, but you got a tailwind back elsewhere.

    First half was a battle to keep a lid on the pace, 6.30mm just seemed too easy and my hr agreed. Went through half way in 64.30 or 6.27mm. 

    Started to ease off on the holding back and just settled into 6.10-6.20 pace with a 6.19, 6.18, 6.22, 6.16, 6.13, 6.15, 6.11, 6.09, 6.14, 6.07 then 5.51 for final 0.14 my GPS over measured. Second half came in at 63.04 at 2.07.34 overall and 6.20mm. A 9 minute pb over that distance. 

    Average hr was 158bpm, Dorney it was 165bpm. I'm pretty confident that had I set off running a marathon I'd have maintained that sort of pace based on how I felt at 20m, which is backed by hr data. 

    So, all in all, pleased to run at 2.46 pace over 20m for what did genuinely feel like a controlled mara effort. With 10 weeks of proper mara training to come, all looks well. It's certainly clear I'm in better shape than Dorney in early April. Don't feel particularly beaten up today either which is good.

    Sadly the passport situation is unchanged so Lanzarote Friday morning is looking increasingly unlikely.

  • 0,0,8,0,5.5,8,0 for 21.5

    Aim for 25 this week with a long run of 10.

    Clutch went on my car at weekend and going to take two weeks to repair so I'll be doing plenty of walking too. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Cross Post between us there. 

    That's a pain, Skinny, at least it isn't mid winter and walking will be nice enough. 
  • Another great run DT - I think being able to run that kin of pace for 20 miles and not feel battered the next day is really encouraging that 2:45 is doable - well done.

    Shit about the passport situation though.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Yes, pleased by how well I feel. 4m recovery yesterday and off out over lunch for 10m.

    Friday now cancelled, luckily we were able to cancel everything and not lose anything. I've now rebooked 2 weeks later off to fly. If passports aren't sorted then, then we are just going to take the time and have a UK break (if there's anything available at a sensible price).

  • Honestly its insane reading some of the comments on what pace some people are doing... Interested in how long people been doing this to get to those paces ?

    Been trying to crack the 50m 10k barrier for a while and got injured whilst doing it. Physio work and recommended ice ice ice after sessions has brought that back under control. Finally after 3 months of low grade training I'm back on it correctly now with the aim of a sub 50m in September @ Bristol
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hi DH, we like new blood on here!!

    Tell us about your training? You look reasonably young and slim in your pic so that's a helpful start. What does 'back on it properly' entail? Hopefully something different to what got you injured?. Tell us your typical week of training? Distances, paces, x training???

    I've been doing this with intent since about 2013 and it's only in the last 18 months or so that things have really taken off to a new level.

    Endurance running is a game of patience and consistency which means trying not to get injured. Better off training at 80% for two years straight than 100% for 3 months here and there with intermittent injuries.

    As for the Bristol 10k, in my view (having run Bristol) big city 10k events are not the best place to run your best times. You can't warm up as you are in a pen for 30 minutes and due to numbers your stride is regularly broken by people coming across you and at 10k effort it's hard to pick it back up.

  • Hey DT,

    Cheers for the welcome... I wish I was young, 40 years young but not over weight that's for sure. Weak maybe haha...

    I started running to lose some of the lockdown weight really back last June/July, I couldn't run 2km at that point ! I bumbled along until around September where I started HR training. Found that hard going in learning how to keep HR low but I can manage that now. Pace is probably around 6-6.15 to stay under the 150 HR mark but injured past 2 months and feel that's gone backwards a little although heat doesn't help.

    Training plans I tend to follow the Garmin coach plans and use a HR strap so my HR zones set on lactate threshold at 170...

    1st plan I managed was the 1/2 marathon which I completed in January, done quite a few since that. PB 1.56

    Following the 10k plan currently with aim of 47m, current PB 50.13 (I was gutted not reaching < 50m)

    So most runs are slow and steady apart from last 3 weeks following the 10k plan which is a bit more speed work. Current weekly around 30km but I've been 50km consistently for long periods of time beginning of the year.

    Strava is linked and all open (I think) https://www.strava.com/athletes/garrethsmith

    For me I like a goal, something to work towards that is achievable. Problem is I don't know if my goals are actually achievable. I'd like to see my easy pace pick up to 5.45 as well but I don't realistically know if that will take 3 months or 3 years !
  • Welcome hamster.

    When I started this thread I was a forty something striving to beat my HM time I ran when i was 13 of 1:35 having tried and failed a few times in the intervening years.

    With consistent training (unfortunately involving a few injury breaks) I finished up with a PB of 1:21:45 five years later.

    I would never have believed that remotely possible when I was striving to break 1:35 so it's amazing where a consistent running journey can take you in terms of times.

    I've never done HR training though so I'll dip out of that bit of the conversation. Good luck, I'm sure sub 50 is doable.
  • 1:21:45 is absolutely incredible @45 well done... There is a local runner here who just completed a 1:18 HM who I ran with for a 5k the other week (he was tapering). I was blowing whilst he looked like he was out for a Sunday stroll around the duck pond. Pace was 5.30m/km but he didn't push over 127 HR, absolutely insane and impressive in the same instance !

    I just like to know that improving is always on the agenda and tbh I've reached the point where I need to force myself to stay in for rest days knowing I'm feeling the previous days activities
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    DH, with consistent training of the correct balance, improvement is always on the cards. I was 45 in January and so far this year I have raced 5 times and pb'd 5 times including a 6 minute marathon pb (2.51) and a 2 minute half mara pb, beating a 2 minutes half mara pb I set in December (1.18 by coincidence to your above comment).

    The good news for you is that with a 50 minute 10k and a 1.56 half it isn't unfeasible that you could make significant gains in quite a short time frame and that is great fun watching it happen to yourself. At 1.18 I can only go so much further and will be scrapping to take 20s off my time.

    Training wise I don't follow HR training rigidly but I am acutely aware of my zones and most importantly making sure easy runs are easy. The  most important factor is making sure you keep the easy stuff easy.

  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2021
    1:21:45 is absolutely incredible @45 well done
    Thanks - I've just checked - I was 48 actually. :blush:

    PS But there are lots of over 50s much faster than me. Unless you're Mo Farah it's all relative and the most important thing is to feel you are getting fitter yourself.
  • Incidentally Skinny how quick were you before you started re-training for the HM ?

    I'd like to find someone who was at my level at one point and then in 5 years was at ???

    My ambitions for a 1.30 HM are probably long gone but I'd like to know whats possible
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muddy who posts on here ran his first half in 2013, aged 43 in 1.38. Three years later he ran 1.16. That's about the same gain you need but faster you get the harder it is to find the minutes. 
  • There has to be improvement in my times yet, it's only been a year and I'm already much better equipped and addicted to buying new running shoes :smiley:

    Continue to set myself realistic targets and I'm happy... 6/7 week of proper training left in me before I attempt that sub 50 in September. Actually find it easier to train in winter so might attempt some HM early next year as the next focus
  • DT19 said:
    Muddy who posts on here ran his first half in 2013, aged 43 in 1.38. Three years later he ran 1.16. That's about the same gain you need but faster you get the harder it is to find the minutes. 
    I think we all think muddy was exceptional though so not best guide.

    hamster I was probably about a 1:40 HM runner when I started training in 2011 - my first race back was a 75 min 10 mile race in November 2011. That was all I ran recently before the start of this thread.

    However racing and running had always been something I did in 10 week bursts after entering the local HM then nothing for a few years so the big gains came from training continuously throughout the year over a number of years.

    The biggest gains are in the first couple of years although DT is having some unusual leaps in PBs after a number of years that I think are linked to an improvement in his robustness enabling him to do extra mileage and hard sessions.

    The only way to find out what you are capable of is to commit to the training long term and see where it takes you. But I'd stick in some easily attainable short term goals because hitting goals is a good feeling.
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