My Last Run

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  • Speedy couple of km JB.. Maybe I do need some super shoes as well...  errm are they a nice colour?  As you are a bloke unlikely to be pink which I don't like.

    True swittle.  I am often out in the woods.  At this time of year there are likely to be people about but in the dark and poor weather... 

    It has been a difficult time for the cinemas Cal.  Film any good?  Good luck with your races this week.  Easy mileage and speed in between a good idea.

    Another time rather than distance run to start the week yesterday evening.  33 minutes this time and I managed to time it / pace it nicely to return back to my starting point.  I had planned to pull forward a speedwork session to yesterday but after several days of poor sleep and therefore feeling tired I decided against it although my legs probably would have done it. 
  • I saw The Suicide Squad - it was a lot of fun (about 100% better than the first one). 
  • Cal, wow 2 races in a week. That should get the adrenalin pumping around the system. 

    Hazel, the trainers are very comfortable and are not too garish in colour. I realised that I was a bit silly running a hard session in brand new trainers. But funnily enough my Achilles actually feels better today than it has done for a while.

    Swittle, you have such a strong sense of, and connection with, place that I wonder if you are Crosby born and bred? If not, you certainly seem to have landed somewhere to which you have become deeply attached. (One of my friends is insistent he'd never live anywhere other than near the coast.)

    Rest day for me, although for me 'rest day' = cross training day.

    What has happened to our (GB) athletes? Do we have to be sitting on something (horses/boats/bikes) to win medals these days?
  • John what type of endorphin you get ?

    I have a pair of Saucony Endorphin Shift (black) with 400km on them and they still feel planted and comfortable for long runs. I've done some decent tempo work on them as well but just bought some Nike Tempo NEXT% which are next level for speed work ! Incidentally they are also pink ;) or at least have pink running through them...

    Rest day here as well due to feeling tweek in an old injury and my legs ache from yesterdays goal repeats
  • Oh and before the Endorphins I had a pair of Hoka Clifton 7s, whilst these were more comfortable I think they come with less life span and are partly the reason I got an ankle injury...
  • We've always been good at the sitting down sports, John.. but yeah, we've not had the best Olympics on the track...two sprinters with crocked hamstrings haven't helped. Great silver in the women's 800, though. I'm crossing my fingers for KJT in the heptathlon.

  • Dangerous, they are the Endorphin Speeds. Funnily enough someone who recommended them then also previously had Hokas.
    I was going to have a rest day yesterday but was tempted out in the evening by my friend who was meeting up wit his club mates for intervals along the prom. So like a kid with a new toy, it was another chance to play with my new trainers. I set out to run 10K, which on recent form I run at around 49.30. I found myself running 4.30 ks which was far too fast but sustained it for 7.5k at which point I gave up (it was also pretty warm). That gave me 34.00 and even a conservative last 2.5k would have given me around 46.30 - a 3 minute improvement. 
    I have found a bit of 5k form of late so I can't put it all down to the shoes, but that's still (to me) a remarkable improvement. Note to self: you are becoming a shoe bore - ironic as I've spent my previous 35 years of running without showing any interest at all!

    Cal, KJT could well come back with a medal but maybe not a gold?

  • Well she's not done well in the high jump which is one of her strong events, but I guess we'll see.
    3 mile plod this morning - just a leg loosener before this evening's 5 mile trail race.
  • swittleswittle ✭✭✭
    No, John, but I've lived here 27 years.  Prior to that, I grew up in West Yorkshire, with 3 years at uni in London.  I think the enduring attraction is the ease and speed with which I can leave tarmac, concrete and the built environment behind.  Of course, the coast continues: Formby Point is a SSSI, wide, clean beaches, pine woods, trails, asparagus fields - and the red squirrels.

    'New' sports are making the headlines: I'm amazed at how quickly the speed climbers swarm up the wall!  It seems it's a watershed period between traditional and 'new age' events.  The 1st GB woman to win an Olympic weightlifting medal was a joy - but the rushing thrill of competition, victory and loss spills over so easily to the remote spectator.  The Warholm WR over the hurdles was electrifying - apparently, the track has been designed to be 'bouncier', whatever that entails...

    Off at 9pm last night, the dusk closing in on a warm, almost calm evening.  With a gently rising tide to my right, I turned at 70 yds landward of the radar tower, finding the sand firm & flat.  A little trail divining amongst chest high shrubs and then parallel to the docks.  After the adventure centre [closed for improvements], I made out a wary dog + 2 hoomans.  Turning off my torch, I stopped - and found out it was a 6-month-old Australian Sheepdog - sturdier than a Border Collie, tan, grey & white double coat - it's said no two coats are identical.  He liked water but not too keen on waves.

    I don't converse with every person I meet but do like the chance to socialise and share perspectives on leisure and exercise.  A round hour, warm down and loosening routine, then a ten-min. stroll home.


  • Good luck for this evening Cal.  Is that the race with the nice names?  I remember something about a toast rack?

    Agree on the GB performance - at least they haven't had two had to drop out due to drugs cases like here (100/200m men and 400m hurdles men).  What do you think Muir's chances are in the 1500m? 

    Hello dangeroushamster (interesting user name..).  Take good care of those legs.  Being a nosy sort of person I promptly found those shoes on your strava.. Nice repeats btw. 

    Seems like the new shoes suit you well then JB. 

    Just under 8.5 miles yesterday - a couple of solo miles then the remainder with one other guy from my struggling Tuesday group.  It rained all the way around but other than slightly soggy feet that didn't bother me much as it wasn't especially cold.  My partner had a jacket and long tights on and I think he was a bit warm.  Pretty quiet out due to the weather - we saw two red deer.  One decided that we were scary and bounded away over the field, the other was clever enough to have worked out that the two legged creatures would likely stay on the road and held its ground though watching us closely.  Nice outing in company - our paces are quite well matched so neither of us had to either hold back or struggle to keep up. 
  • > @HazelnutCH said:
    > Hello dangeroushamster (interesting user name..).  Take good care of those legs.  Being a nosy sort of person I promptly found those shoes on your strava.. Nice repeats btw. 

    I'm just as nosy and thanks, wondered where the random like came from ! :)
    I know it's nothing special but that run did feel really good...

    John, I've had 3 shoes purchases now and everytime on new shoes I've managed to pull off a PB or some very good training sessions. I don't know if it's a placebo effect or a want to prove the purchase was valid :D
  • Hazel...yeah. The main features are the alps (a series of lumpy bumpy mounds - steep up and down with rocks and pebbles, so very technical)...the rifle butts (another steep climb, and muddy) and the toast rack (a narrow gravelly uphill path that isn't steep but is very draining as it just goes and goes and the gravel shifts under your feet). Much cooler this time but also muddier thanks to all the rain we've had.
    Australian shepherds are nice looking dogs, swittle. I often strike up conversations with people about their dogs (and also pet the dogs if they're amenable).

  • The race (Wimbledon Trail Race race 2) was all round better than the last one, largely due to it being 7 degrees cooler. However, thanks to all the recent rain it was muddier, unavoidably so in places. My first two miles were slower than the last race for that reason, plus some congestion after the start (that and I still really suck at coming down the Alps - the lumpy rocky hills) but after that I was able to let loose a bit and managed to reel in quite a few people on the way back. After a disappointing 11:40 for the technical and muddy mile 2, I managed a much more satisfactory 9:11 for the third mile. Mile 4 features the toast rack and in the last race I was so drained by the heat and humidity that I walked much of it, but this time I got up it without stopping and passed three people while doing so. 10:40 for that one but it has 40m climb and I wasn't really gunning it. I did, however, gun the last mile and managed 8:35 for that which is my old HMP. I started feeling a bit sick (a combination of effort and acid reflux) but still got past a few people, including one woman right at the finish, after which I had a good dry heave. I'm a little annoyed I didn't quite get under 50 minutes (Garmin time was 50:10), largely due to the muddy bits, but I was happy with how strong I felt thereafter and with the pace of the last mile. I think it's safe to say that sky races are not in my future, though.  :D
  • Well done Cal - without the mud and the congestion you would have gone sub 50.  I think mixing up standard road races with ones over tougher terrain is a good idea. 

    x-posted yesterday swittle, the climbing looked quite interesting - unbelievable how fast they did the speed race.  Australian sheepdogs are nice - getting to see a few around now.  Like the idea of the socialising - I often see the same people out - dog walkers mostly but not only.  Certainly do exchange greetings but the one or other look like they would be interesting to have a chat with - an older guy down the road for example who cycles around locally a lot - he likes to give me encouragement and we always laugh when we meet up for the second or third time when we are both on our loops. (he just cycled past my window..)

    Tough run yesterday evening with 5 miles @ LT pace.  Overall 10 miles with a 3.75 mile warm-up, the tempo section and the rest as a cool-down jog.  It was raining quite heavily when I set out and felt quite cool so I donned a jacket in the vain hopes of staying a bit drier.  Two loops of the village, then dumped the jacket for the rest and headed off to my flatish loop for the hard bit.  First of all 5 strides to encourage the legs to do some hard work and complete the warm-up.  I thought hmm - not sure I'm going to like this.  Into the 5 miles and the legs straight away agreed with that and got the wobbles but I told them to shut up and get on with it. That did improve after a while though.  My last attempt at 5m ground to a halt at 4, again it was tempting as I was tired and breathing was shot but this time I pushed through it and kept going despite the last bit again being up a slight incline.  Once I was safely over the 4 I knew though I would get it done.   Short walk to catch my breath and then turned for home for the cool-down jog.  I think I must have put on quite a lot of weight in rain water, my clothes made a very satisfying splat on hitting the floor and it was straight into a warm shower.  Looking at the results afterwards my GPS watch produced some very improbable splits and it is possible I went under-distance.  Doesn't matter though as I did a good run and the overall time was about right. 
  • john bateman 6john bateman 6 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2021
    Another dog person here! 

    Cal, that run sounds pretty brutal. I'm sure a sub 50 is well within reach in better conditions. Is there another chance to run it soon?

    Hazel, ditto for yours! I like the idea of you telling your legs to shut up and get on with it. Top running, I must say. 

    No running for me Wed-Fri as (surprise, surprise) I think I rather overdid it earlier in the week and my knee is a bit stiff and sore. I want to be recovered for a bit of Parkrun tourism on Saturday, although I see that the weather forecast is grim.

    Swittle, as you are a Yorkie living in (old) Lancashire I presume you've had your passport revoked? 

    The Olympic continues to enthral. Love the track cycling and the relay sprints - and the pole vault. Shame about KJT (but not surprising). The USA are bossing the events as much as in previous years. Please just let us beat the Aussies in the medal table!
  • I like dogs as well - we chose to have cats instead as pets to have less problems with care when away.  My MIL is also terrified of dogs - not that she ever visits us here or we would take one to her but the sheer potential of either would cause issues.

    Hope the knee recovers enough for Saturday JB.  Advantage with poor weather is that it encourages you to run faster so you can get back inside quicker.

    Didn't watch any Olympics yesterday. I've spent rather too much time doing so but I will browse through and watch some things on replay maybe.

    Recovery four and a bit yesterday evening.  Pleased that the legs and the rest were not overly tired after Wednesday's efforts.  I just had to be careful to keep the effort down on the inclines.
  • john - I did 44 and 45 minutes for the two races I did in 2019, but I was fitter then. The next one is 1st September so I will probably give it another go.
    Hazel, I often tell my legs to shut up, particularly the niggly bits.
    I am really more of a cat person but I like dogs too - I had both growing up as a kid. Since I live in a very small flat, I take every opportunity to pet other people's animals as I don't think it'd be nice for an animal to live in such a small space, however much I would like one.
    A very poor night's sleep, unfortunately; I woke up every hour, it seemed, probably due to anxiety about the stupid heart thing (it turns out that the doc's receptionist was wrong - I have been called back for an ultrasound scan of my heart next month due to the ECG irregularities. Which could something, or could be completely benign hence the further investigation). Not what I needed as I only got 5 hours after the trail race due to the late finish and then still waking up early.
    Still, I got myself out for 10 miles, which I took pretty slowly as, unsurprisingly, I wasn't feeling awesome. 
    On the plus side, I managed to find London Road Park after getting lost on Sunday (my mental map was wrong that day...but I made sure to check Google Maps this time and was glad I did as the way to the park is particularly obscure).
    A couple of traffic stops on this one - I am trying not to worry about that now but it still irritates me. (My younger self felt that to stop on a run was a failure - I no longer feel that but that doesn't stop me from getting annoyed when I have to wait for cars).
  • Hazel, I'm tempted to add that if my MIL was afraid of dogs then that alone would be a reason to get one! The knee is feeling better thanks. I'm such a terrible obsessive I've been looking through the records of other runners in my category who typically turn up at the course I'm doing tomorrow. (It's Guildford, which is quite near Cal, but maybe not one she has done.)

    Cal, that error by the receptionist is terrible! Of course we all make mistakes, but that was a mistake of some importance. On the cars issue, I used to run a time trial that involved crossing a very busy and fast road. One day I made a silly mistake (just to prove that yes, we all do make life threatening mistakes!) and nearly got myself a collision. Now I'd never run a time trial involving crossing roads. (And I was just as stupid on a bike, too.)

    PS on of my pals - a serious cyclist - once gave me this advice: just assume that every motorist actually wants to kill you.
  • Update: Guildford Parkrun done in horrible conditions (a downpour) and on a tricky course (undulating and mostly grass plus a bit of mud). That's the excuses out of the way!

    22:36 which was 'OK' in the conditions but no more than that. A category win. The WAVA was 74.96% which was the 2nd best in a field of 248. I was pleasantly surprised at this but it was a reflection on the conditions and the size/quality of the field - I suspect some of the fast guys (and girls) took one look at the weather and opted for a lie-in.

    As ever total respect for the volunteers who must have got even wetter than the competitors and yet still gave lots of encouragement.

    Mrs JB did very well and her WAVA got her comfortably in the top half of the field. Her best ever.

  • Sensible regarding pets and the flat Cal.  I like your animals petted log on strava.  Sorry to hear about the mess-up with the heart fingers crossed the new tests will confirm everything is okay.  Not surprising the 10 was a bit tough after a poor night.

    I stalk people in my age group as well JB.  Well done for turning out today and that is a good time/wava again.  Did you leave the fancy shoes at home or get them wet?  Well done to Mrs JB too!

    Tough long run yesterday - with non-related running things to do this weekend (including a hot air balloon ride this morning and a friend visiting this evening) I decided to pull this run forwards and took half a day off of work.  I should have gone in the morning as it was pretty warm in the afternoon.  I didn't take enough water with me and got dehydrated and also was likely underfuelled.  The last 6 of 18 miles were tough - I had to take a couple of short breaks in the shade and have a discussion with myself about whether I could do the run or not.  Walk breaks would likely have been better.  Running next to a river was a pain - water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink- at one point I would have happily leapt in with my mouth wide open.  Got the planned distance done at least - part of the training for long distances is getting your head sorted.

    Mostly tired today from getting up at 3:30am this morning for the balloon (yaawwwnn).  Legs not too bad though after yesterday's longie.  Around 7 miles in the pouring rain - quite a contrast to yesterday.  Lightweight shorts and a waterproof jacket worked well.  Better than being soaked in minutes.
  • How exciting, Hazelnut...I'd love to do that. Nearly got to once but it was cancelled due to terrible weather.

    That's an excellent run, John. I've only scraped over 70% a couple of times. Awful weather here too. I was volunteering at Brockwell parkrun three miles away so jogged there and back. And oh my god I have never been so wet...it chucked it down on the way there, while I was marshalling and on the way back. I wouldn't have been any wetter if I'd jumped in the lido.
  • swittleswittle ✭✭✭
    Good to read of many useful - and - challenging sessions.  The sensation of kit moulding itself to torso & arms is not that pleasant!  Your investment in effort will be repaid, come race day!

    A detailed race report, Cal - always useful to have a previous event over the same course for comparison.  An Australian woman high pumper in Tokyo made notes immediately after every jump she took with old skool notebook & pen.  I think she took silver.  Some analysis time is never wasted, even if it's while returning home from an event.  On heart examination, my experience is that high priority is given to those with even mild symptoms.  My tests culminated in an angiogram, from which mild closing of two heart arteries was diagnosed and pills prescribed.  All under control for 10 years to date.  Prevention saves the NHS huge sums of cash.

    John - I found quite a number of parallels between West Yorkshire & Merseyside when I moved west.  Wind down of major industries in both had left both economy and people in a dull, enduring shocked state; by comparison, Scousers were more resilient, 'up and at 'em' types, and more politically aware.  Good time for your soggy parkrun and Mrs JBs too and another vote in favour of WAVA as a guide for comparison pf performance.

    Hazel - it seems the distance athletes at the Games have been suffering in high heat & humidity.  30% DNF in the men's Marathon, despite relocating it to Sapporo - the cloud cleared and it got v warm, even before 9am Japan time.  The balloon ride would take you to a cooler atmosphere.

    Long post, so a quick note on last night's hour by the sea.  Strong W wind, 30mph, only a few squalls.  Hardly a soul about after 9.  2.8 miles each, trail, then beach.  Wind & low pressure had the sea charging in towards my feet!  Near my finish, I spotted a red tail light, then a motorbike headlamp in the large field that acts as my base.  I kept going straight on...


  • Hazel, no head for heights, so you are welcome to the balloon ride: enjoy! Some (more) terrific training from you.

    Cal, my word you must have got soaked. I hope you got a lot of 'thank yous'.

    Swittle, another bit of biography from me. The day before I landed my job in Liverpool I had an interview in Castleford (Allerton Bywater, if my memory serves me well). Had I been offered the job in Yorkshire then I could swap Yorkshire anecdotes with you rather Merseyside ones.

    Noted your 30mph wind and I think I could raise you 10mph this morning. Very blustery along the prom where, for a bit of fun, 3 of us had an impromptu handicap run with one running 5k, one 5.5K and one 6k. We were all within about 30 seconds of each other so the handicap was about right. Running into the wind was brutal.

    Really enjoyed the Olympics. Now a bit of a gap before the Para event.
  • Battersea 10K today. I've done two of the Wimbledon Trail Series races but this was the first one with an actual medal. Of course it was still raining, and I had to contend with another appalling night's sleep followed by some intestinal shenanigans, but I sucked it up and ran the three miles to Battersea Park as a warm-up, picked up my number and got my chip onto my shoe.
    My aim was to do this as a tempo, keeping a nice even pace and hopefully going under 55 minutes. I didn't quite manage that (55:22) but wasn't too far off. Splits were 8:55/8:54/8:57/8:52/9:02/9:03 (and summoned up 8:20 pace for the remaining .2). A little fade there, so I guess my lactate pace is around 9 minutes.
    Obviously this is a long way away from what I was doing before lockdown, and I would have been disgusted by that time in 2019, but as it stands, I'm OK with it. Clearly I have a lot of work to do, but it's a good benchmark.
  • Shame you didn't get to do your balloon trip Cal.  Nasty weather to be marshalling in on Saturday.  Must have been worse than running it.

    Nice wave dodging swittle.  Running in 30mph wind is certainly not easy. 

    Ditto for you too JB.  Like the idea of the handicap run.  Shame the main olympics are finished now - still got some events to catch up on.

    Great second race for the week Cal.  Do you also look at your wava scores?  On that count you might not be so far off your 2019 form. 

    11.3 miles ran yesterday, I also cycled a bit under 15 miles in total to and from the starting point.  One of my standard loops (a few variants possible) but I set the start and finish at a different location within the loop which freshenend things up a bit.  Easy start, just picking up the pace over the last 5 miles.  A bit more than planned, heading towards potential MP.  Felt ok though.   Warm and a bit breezy but made sure to hydrate better this time. 
  • Hazel, in one of my very ancient running books from the late 70s, they tried to quantify x-training such as cycling into RE (running equivalents). I'm not sure this worked and I think that you (like most runners) would think of a bike ride to an event or proper training run as a warm up. However, 15 miles x 2 must have an aerobic effect - depending of course on hills and pace but even without these features still makes a contribution to training. (Partly raising this issue because we acquired a new exercise bike yesterday. Plus, I cycled 12 or so miles before my PB 5k and it's stuck in my memory as something to try again.)

    Cal, a very decent effort especially (not unlike Hazel) with a decent warm up run. Under 55 (depending on the course) is well within your grasp. Next event?

    Rain falling in biblical volumes here = a good excuse for a rest day.
  • They are all very impressive running stats by all ! I actually do not mind a bit of rain on a run and love a doggie fuss if I can...

    Managed a 11km and 15km over the weekend. Both easy running but tried to get a steady HR and each split on the 15 was either 150 or 151 which I was very happy with. Still had to head back quickly as the stomach was churning :#

    Day off today not to stress the ankle too much...
  • Not heard of this WAVA before, looking at it I can see it's some sort of handicap based on age but I quite understand how it works ? What do the scores mean ?
  • Dangerous, right. Here goes. It starts with the world record for an event for that age/sex. For example, what is the world record for a 66 year old women running 5k? That time is then allocated 100% value. All other times for 66 year old  woman can then be calculated against that figure. It's as simple as that: the nearer you are to the world record, the higher/better will be your age grade. And yes it is a kind of handicapping system so that we can rank competitors in different classes - common sense tells us that a 23 year old male runner should always beat a 66 year old women in terms of times - but what about on age grading?

    Of course with anything like this there will be imperfections: I'm assuming most world records will be set in optimal conditions - typically on the track, on a windless, warm day. So a someone running on a hilly course in mud would be disadvantaged.

    If you look at a Parkrun site, you'll see that you can reorder the finishing positions, which are of course conventionally laid out in terms of the order that people cross the finish line, into an Age Grade ('WAVA' essentially means age grading) order. So old gits like me will do this as soon as they get their results; it can change a 100th into a 1st! Most 'normal' running events don't tell you your age grade but you can find it out by googling  number of sites. I use the one by 'Grubb' - so just google 'age grading  Grubb'. Of course you can do this for your training runs too - as long as they are accurately measured.

    It's also a great way of measuring your performance as you age - you might not be hitting the same times as you did 20 years ago, but is your age grade holding steady, or even improving?

    I hope that helps. (Others feel free to correct me!)

    PS 60-69% age grade is usually accepted as 'local' standard; 70-79% 'regional; and 80%+ 'national'. As a rough guide, my local Parkrun, Worthing, is a fast course and that in itself will attract better runners. Thus most weeks there will be a few runners who will clock an 80%+ in a field of say 500. Other slower and/or less popular courses, such as the I ran last weekend (Guildford) might not in a given week have any competitors who reach the 80% benchmark, which was the case on last Saturday where the best AG was around 76%. 

      
  • Thank john, when you put it into this type of context...

    60-69% age grade is usually accepted as 'local' standard; 70-79% 'regional; and 80%+ 'national'

    That makes plain sense, I thought I was missing something. Bottom end of local for my PBs over 5 & 10k so some effort required !
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