Overdone it?

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Hi muddy, thanks. It's the only gold cell where my current pb is only 3s per mile out from so it'll be in my thoughts! 

    What's the diagnosis at minute? 
  • Well done DT - lovely splits which make me think it was a great experience too!
  • PeteHewPeteHew ✭✭✭
    Wow!  Great result, DT.  Absolutely marmalised your pb :smiley:
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks both, I just wanted to put that gold cell in a hard to reach place for muddys comeback! 

    It wasn't as much of a coast as Dorney was in April and the last 2m I had to real work to hold 6.15s, but flicked the switch at halfway so ran a 1.25.10/1.21.08 split and carved through the field in second half. Report to follow. 
  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    Fantastic running and splits DT!! Look forward to the report :)
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Mr v. There's an argument that split is again too big and I've not maximised it, but I really felt first half I'd overcooked it. 
  • SkinnyPart2SkinnyPart2 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2021
    As virtually everyone on here has already looked up DT's fantastic performance I'm going to break with tradition and post an updated TTT in advance of the race report or him giving his time.

    So here is an updated TTT for me improving my WAVA to 79.81 with my 5k 18:55 last month and leapfrogging DT in the WAVA rankings (and also getting heavier by 4 pounds).

    But mainly for DT's near 5 minute marathon PB - stupendous performance which also earns him (and I'm sure this is by far the most important thing for you DT  ;)) the marathon gold cell and demotes muddy to a marathon runner also ran.

    Those splits and the size of the PB suggests a bit more might still be possible too.

    Very well done DT.  B)B)B)

    EDIT: Actually DT did give his time provided you can add the two splits together except that the maths don't work - typical solicitor. :-)
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2021
    Ah, that is glorious, Skinny. Sorry, long day yesterday....

    1.25.10/1.21.58

    Next up a sub 60 10m attemp mid November, though I am conscious that I do need to squeeze in a sub 18 parkrun ASAP as that pb is now 3 years old. 

    What more than anything suggests a bit more is possible is the fact my GPS covered 26.9m. Now I've a lot of data having run London 6 times and the most I've recorded is 26.55m. Due the the age group champs my start arrangement was awful, essentially placing all v45 gfa runners in wave 3. The first 8m were an absolute nightmare and it really wasn't until about 18 I was running with people at a decent pace and had space. I believe I ran a good 400m more than I needed to plus the disruption in pace in first 8m was really tough work. 

    Anyway, more of that in my report when I do it. 
  • DT19 said:
    Hi muddy, thanks. It's the only gold cell where my current pb is only 3s per mile out from so it'll be in my thoughts! 

    What's the diagnosis at minute? 
    Great run DT, always on the cards and lovely weather for it. Congratulations.

    I have some sort of nerve problem that is stopping my right calf muscles from working properly. It presents itself as my heel dropping suddenly as my foot goes to toe off.  So my achilles and surrounding tendons just seem to be doing a lot of the shock absorption.  I've diligently worked on the strength and activation of the calves under physio advice for the past 3 months or so but the achilles, peroneal and post tib tendons remain very sore even without any running.

    There's not really anywhere else to go with it now. I've tried rest, strength, physio etc.


  • That's shit muddy - is it 'foot drop'? Did you have tenderness in the peroneal before it happened?
  • DT19 said:

    Next up a sub 60 10m attemp mid November, though I am conscious that I do need to squeeze in a sub 18 parkrun ASAP as that pb is now 3 years old. 
    Surely you could rest and recover October and then squeeze the sub 18 in the week before the 10 miler as a perfect bit of preparation?
  • kevin70kevin70 ✭✭✭
    Brilliant DT, smashed it. Great to see all your training through these months paying off with pb after pb.

    Not good on the running Muddy, fingers crossed for you that you can bet back to some sort of running soon.
  • That's shit muddy - is it 'foot drop'? Did you have tenderness in the peroneal before it happened?
    I think it's the opposite of foot drop (which I understand as not being able to control the dorsiflexion at the ankle). When I try to stand on tiptoe on my right side, as I put weight through the front of my foot, the heel just plops down. It doesn't offer any resistance to eversion either - so the foot isn't rolling from out to in properly.

    I had no idea that I had incurred an injury - it was a routine half hour jog round the woods in March, not strenuous at all but I woke up the next day with my calf cramped and sore. The only precursor I can think of was a sore achilles after a 13 mile hike the weekend before that.
  • Sounds nasty and frustrating. Very like me and my foot thing - came out of the blue and thought it would be a one day thing and blew a three year hole in all my running plans. Hopefully yours will clear up a lot faster.

    Must have happened at a similar age to my foot thing too - just as I had my eyes on 'dominating'  :D:D the local over 50s scene.
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Awesome, DT! Totally deserved after the consistent training week after week. Think you were just ahead of my new club mate (who ran a near identical time to you at Dorney Lake earlier in the year but in a different wave).

    Good day for my old club too with Dan finishing 22nd in 2:24 and 3 others sub 2:40.  

    Muddy - that's shit and very frustrating for you. Hopefully somebody can help get you fixed. 

    Hilly & muddy parkrun for me on Saturday in the torrential rain. Lovely. Then an unplanned 19 miles (with a couple of breaks and driving to different locations) yesterday supporting various people doing virtual London marathon's. The best bit being the first 13 miles over the edge of Dartmoor starting at 06:30am. Feeling a bit motivated to train for a marathon next spring. 
     
    Finally had the results from the Dartmoor fell series last night. Slightly suprised to see I'd finished 9th overall. Nice to complete the series but I don't think I'll do as many next year. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Well done DT, that's a heck of a run.

    Some people just seem to suit the really long distance, and you definitely are one of those!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2021
    That's very frustrating, Muddy. Similar to Skinnys situation I guess in that it was a complete mystery for so long. Hope it get's resolved asap, as you can still be ripping the v50 scene apart!

    Skinny, the complicating factor is the last 10 days of October I am in Lanzarote, so just as i'd probably be looking to get running again I go away, which will delay any serious parkrun hit until after the 10m race I would imagine.

    Thanks, SG. I don't know why, but I do just seem more capable at that distance than I do at other distances.

    Thanks, Tommy. Interesting that you clubmate and I replicated numbers on back to back events. Decent outcome in the race series.

    I wasn't planning to run a marathon now until Berlin next September, however London in all their wisdom have continued with gfa times only being valid for one year and the qualifying period for London 2023 is yesterday to August 2022. Great if running Manchester next week, but for everyone in London, it means if they want a 2023 place they will have to run a mara in that period. Seems crazy not to extend it 48 hours so people can use Sunday. With my GFA being 3.10 I could turn up at a low level airfield event and just sit at 7mm to bank a gfa without destroying myself based on current shape I would think.
  • DT19 said:
    With my GFA being 3.10 I could turn up at a low level airfield event and just sit at 7mm to bank a gfa without destroying myself based on current shape I would think.
    Smug bastard!  ;)

    Sounds like a good weekend's running for you Tommy - I was similarly affected by watching London on Sunday morning. I know the date of Manchester and I know how much it costs to enter and I've said it out loud to Mrs Skinny that I might have one more go at a marathon.
  • DT - I'm withholding a race report to keep the stage free for your spectacular marathon report.

    Should I just release it or will it be hitting the forum sometime today? 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes, Skinny!! One more go, you've said it here now as well. I have considered Manchester for next spring, but as I said, I'm currently not overly keen on committing to two more back to back back full beans mara cycles. 

    I think it's unlikely to be today as work busy. If I fo crack through things, I may get something together late afternoon, but not sure. 
  • Also my goals for 2021 in January were a sub 20 5k - done twice, hopefully 3 times by Thursday, sub 40 10k - 38:44 done and a sub 1:30 HM (possibly the easiest of the 3).

    The local HM is on 3rd October so hopefully I'm fit enough to tootle round that in 6:45s but I haven't entered yet.
    Okay I'll fill the 'report gap'.

    In the shadow of DT’s wonderful achievements and fast gold cell winning marathon time it was the Great Cumbrian Run on Sunday which was my opportunity to complete the targeted set of times for the year as per the above. I hadn’t raced a Half Marathon since before my foot injury (March 2017) so was really looking forward to it.

    Great Cumbrian Run 2021 Race Report

    I got back from a week long holiday on Saturday and went online to see if I needed to enter before the race or could enter on the day and discovered the race was cancelled on 22nd September.

    End of race report.

    There was however a virtual half marathon you could enter for free and run any route and upload your time and a photo/link of your performance so I decided to do that instead.

    Virtual Great Cumbrian Run 2021 Race Report

    Obviously this is not much more than a report for a solo training session where I try and hit HMP for 13.11 miles 😊. Someone I knew was currently top of the standings with a 1:45 so without much of a plan I donned my Nike Lunaracers and without a warm up other than standing around waiting for my garmin to find a signal off I went from my front door with a vague idea that my a) target of sub 1:30 wasn’t achievable, I should have a b) target but wasn’t sure what it should be and my c) target was to beat the 1:45 that was top of the leaderboard but only around 10 people had submitted a time when I set off.

    Weather was wet and a gusty wind. I’ll just lob down the mile times with what was going on in my head.

    Mile 1 6:53 I’m blowing a bit but that time gives me lots of options but probably need to slow down fairly soon.

    Mile 2 6:48 Settled into a bit of a rhythm now and obviously going at just under sub 1:30 pace – reckon I can keep this going for a few miles and that will have been a good workout.

    Mile 3, 4 and 5 6:40, 6:40, 6:49 Maybe the wind is behind me – I’m going to suffer for this when I get to halfway and have to run second half right back into it.

    Mile 6 7:01 Had a bit of a hill in it but still feel I can run on like this for a bit – depends how bad the wind is.

    Mile 7 6:49 Okay I’m running into the wind and it still doesn’t seem to be slowing me down that much. In fact the wind is more across than against. Obviously I’m running at tempo pace and I’m going to blow up at 10 miles but I’ll keep going till then because this is turning into a really good workout.

    Miles 8, 9 and 10 6:37, 6:46, 6:47 Still going, still going… I must have about 50 seconds in hand now to spread over last 3 miles for a sub 1:30.

    Mile 11 6:50 Okay I still feel okay – I’m going to run sub 1:30 unless I get cramp or something.

    Mile 12 and 13 6:52, 6:48 About midway through mile 13 I remembered that actually there were other people doing this virtual race too so made a bit of an effort.

    The scraps 0.11 (nice thing about a virtual race is you don’t do any over distance) 42 secs at 6:18 pace.

    Total time 1:29:01 – mission accomplished. Quite chuffed with myself.

    Rather amusingly the deadline for time submissions ended last night at midnight and out of the 134 entries mine was the fastest so I won the Great Cumbrian Run this year!  :D:D:D
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    That's a great performance, Skinny. I am not sure I could go out and run at my capacity for a half, so no doubt if the race went ahead you'd be a good bit quicker. You've definitely come a long way this last, what 12 months? Congrats on the win also.

    OK, so I did find time over lunch to write a report....
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    London 21

    This was to be my 6th London and 9th marathon. I don’t need to talk about the training which went bang on, particularly coming straight off another perfect campaign for Dorney.

    The target was 2.49.xx and I felt that my 2.51 in Dorney was completed at an almost canter that sub 2.50 should be achievable. Additionally, a 1.18 half late May suggested even by then I was a bit fitter than Dorney. I was also conscious that people had, had problems using Dorney as a GFA for Berlin due to AIMS issues so was keen to at least be sub 2.55.

    Race week was quite relaxed in terms of nerves, I was more excited just to be going back to London. Work was ridiculously busy last week which may have been a help to take my mind off the race.

    I travelled down Friday lunchtime alone, did the expo then met up with my family who travelled after the school day. Usual ridiculous day Saturday, walking 9 miles around the history museum, but in turn two decent sleeps in a hotel room which was unprecedented.

    Carb loading I scaled back from some of the OTT efforts of previous campaigns and just ate carb dominated main meals and topped up each day with a maurten 320 as a snack. Having one of these pre-race, I am not really sure significant carb loading is necessary.

    Sunday morning I did my usual walk from Holborn to Charring Cross, got to the start, did my bits then got to the front of the pen ready to go. I watched in envy as the champs and v40s went off in wave 1, engaging in discussions with others around me as to our frustration with being in wave 3, one guy going for 2.35. I saw a clubmate who has always been much better than me but now the gap was closed. We had a quick embrace and he asked if I was going for 2.49. I said yes and he said we will stick together.

    We were off at 9.36 and so was my clubmate, so much for the plan, however I wondered if we might cross paths again later that morning. Plan was to go through half way at low 1.25 then slowly build from there. Within a mile I was hitting the back of the v40 group, however things were still relatively clear but I was fearful as to what awaited at the mile 3 merge. My main observation was that the blue start definitely has more downhill in the opening 3m than the others.

    First 3m came in at 6.34, 6.31 and then 6.20 for the downhill mile 3 and 5k in 20.19 so bang on. The merge came and it was ridiculous and extremely frustrating. I was permanently looking ahead for lines and gaps and darting all over the place, cutting my pace, speeding up and so on. Th effort felt right (probably due to all this) and I was becoming concerned that I was overcooking it and kept trying to just ease back. The next few miles came in 6.23, 6.22 and 6.26. As each one flashed up I bemoaned my lack of control. The second 5k came in at 20.01. I was becoming increasingly concerned by my GPS v mile markers. I am usually within 25 metres until Canary wharf. Already by mile 6 I was recording just over 0.1m longer.

    At 7m things opened up a bit and whilst there was still an undesirable situation, it was manageable. I had a shout out from Lewis at 7m telling me that I was bang on plan. I then saw a clubmate who was in the v40 start ahead of me. Said a quick hello then moved on.

    The following miles came in 6.28, 6.24 and 6.23 so sitting consistently now at mid 6.20s. I saw a female clubmate at 9m who was in champs and had a quick chat with her. The next 5k came in at 20.27.

    OK, systems check as we head towards Tower Bridge. I am feeling OK but definitely like this is my limit today, which is fine as sitting here will still yield a pb. Onwards to the Bridge which is my favourite part. Next few miles were 6.21, 6.25, 6.22 and 6.28 through to 13m. The next 5k came in at 19.48 and through halfway on my watch at 1.25.10. OK, despite the extra distance I believe I have covered, bang on 1st half target. Let’s just settle here as mid 6.20s is enough for a 2.49.

    The half way marker however set a bell off in my head to ramp it up, just like I do in training and went off with a 6.17, 6.12 and 6.06. I winced as every one of them flashed up and kept trying to pull back, but I was in cruise mode now. The crowds had reduced, my mood less angry and I was enjoying myself. The next 5k came in 20.02 (I appreciate there’s little correlation between my numbers and the 5k splits). At about 14m I had a shout out from OO, gave him a wave and ploughed on. A bit further along I saw g-dawg and had a brief chat and was pleased to hear he was on target.

    At 16m I saw Lewis again and he shouted out that it was time to wind things up, I gave him a thumbs up and a nod as if to say, ‘I’m going to fxxxcking destroy this now’. At about 17m I see my clubmate from the start pen so he provides a nice little target and I cruise past him at 18m. I give him a call and a wave and a smile, probably not what he wanted he was working hard and I was in my peak of the day.

    The next few miles were 6.12, 6.16 and then the Canary Wharf madness of 5.08 and 5.06. The next 5k was 19.25 to 30k. At this point I started doing my own sums working on 12k and 4 mins per k as my garmin was useless beyond a stop watch. Coming out of Canary Wharf I was 0.7m off the mile markers so it was a matter of ignoring the watch.

    It was beginning to get hard work so it was let’s just get to 23 at this pace then even if we sit at 6.30s we’ve had a good day. However, I just started getting faster with a 6.08, 6.09 and 6.07. At about 23m I saw a local speedster who won’t have been aware of my recent progress as he unfollowed me on strava a year or so back (I probably wasn’t fast enough) so I made a point of giving him a cheery wave and shout out as I passed by and a thumbs up. He was completely done, shoulders gone and looked knackered.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    The next 5k was 19.18 and suddenly I was into the final complete 5k. I just set myself the target of getting through that big tunnel and getting on the embankment as I knew once there I was home and dry. As I got to each mile marker I did some maths based on dropping to 6.30mm so at 23m I worked on 20 mins left and could see sub 2.50 was pretty much there, but I was fully conscious that something could derail me at any moment.

    I ploughed on with a 6.09 and 6.09 and was just astounded as to where they kept coming from. The final complete 5k to 40k came in 19.16, my fastest of the day and I was there on the embankment. At the 40k marker I knew I was at worst 8 minutes away. Things were getting hard now, I was really working for it, but I had the novelty of lots of space as I cut through the pack. Mile 26 came in at 6.13, but I still had way more than 400m to come. I was onto the Mall and the 1k sign comes up and I think, just 4 minutes to hold on tight and this is a nice well supported slight decline so it’s easy.

    The signs start coming fast then, 800, 600, 400…. I start moving a bit faster. I had no idea what my time might be as I hadn’t looked at my watch since 40k. As we get to the final corner, turning towards the finish I start opening up and the line comes remarkably fast. As I get towards it I give myself a quiet pat on the back for a job well done, stopping the watch at 2.47.10 (official time 2.47.08). I was immediately peed off I didn’t go sooner to go 2.46, but quickly lay that nonsense to bed! The final 0.9 on my gps came in at 6.04mm and the remainder from 40k in 8.34 so 3.54per k pace.

    I don’t for one minute believe I ran 26.9 miles as I know I gained on the gps a good 2 minutes in canary wharf based on the splits so that’s about 0.3m, however I do believe that first 7-8m cost me a good minute compared to having a clear run, though who knows if that might have bitten me on the arse later.

    I don’t really know where that 2nd half came from and at half way never thought I’d run another quite aggressive negative split of 1.25.10 and 1.21.58.

    I am not sure how I can top that, though equally I thought I had, had the race of my life in Dorney and also London 2019, so never say never I guess! The gains will no doubt be harder to find going forwards.

    As I walked down the Mall I saw SBD and we had a good chat, and I was delighted to hear of his time. Great then to meet up with g-dawg and OO plus family for a beer.

    A nice month off anything of intention and 10 days in Lanzarote pending. I then have the Derby 10m mid November. I might not be at my peak but I feel sub 60 should be on. That’s followed by a 5m race mid December to finally bank a sub 30 and I also need to find time to run a sub 18 parkrun, with that pb having just turned 3 years old. That will then give me 7 distances/7 pbs in the same year. I am also unsatisfied with my recent 10ks (one around an airfield in a storm, the other on a really hilly course) and want a solid sub 37. Eyeing up the Leicestershire 10k the week after Derby.

     


  • Mr VMr V ✭✭✭
    DT - Great report and amazing to see how far you have come. All achieved through lots of hard work. Just shows where consistent training and lots of miles gets you. I'm sure you'll be way under your shorter distance targets when you come to race them.

    Skinny - Good solo effort there and a win is a win! I have fond memories of the Great Cumbrian Run as it was the first race I ever did back in 2008!
  • Well done DT those final 5k splits in a marathon make me wince just reading them - you've earned that time with dedication. Effort brings reward. Congratulations and nice waving to the speedsters you knew as you went passed them!  >:)

    The other thing I learned from that report is that your coach travelled with you to the race - wow that is a professional set up!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks both. 

    Ha, not quite Skinny. He had about 8-10 runners on the course including his wife and father in law. His wife ran a similar time to me (2.49) so he was predominantly cutting across the route following her. 
  • Tommy2DTommy2D ✭✭✭
    Great write up, DT enjoyed that. As has been said before a just reward for your dedication to training. I'm sure you will be able to beat that time, I would think a sub 2:40 and a championship start is a tough but achievable target for you. Just saw that a woman from my new club was a couple of minutes slower than you to finish 24th woman overall, based on her splits you would have overtaken her at some point during your second half rampage.

    Congratulations on the victory, skinny! That is a great solo effort, not a chance I could dial into 13.1 miles of HMP by myself. 
  • kevin70kevin70 ✭✭✭
    DT great report and a well executed marathon, paces are amazing. You smashed the training and it paid off, enjoy your break.

    Skinny, with little training you have manged to post a great time and I'm sure when you get back into it and races are back on you can get quicker. Any prizes for first  :)
  • kevin70 said:
    DT great report and a well executed marathon, paces are amazing. You smashed the training and it paid off, enjoy your break.

    Skinny, with little training you have manged to post a great time and I'm sure when you get back into it and races are back on you can get quicker. Any prizes for first  :)
    Hmmm - races are just a confirmation of training so it is the ability to train that is important. I think I have the ability to perform decently off little training but not the ability to train well enough to perform at the level that my 'off little training performances' suggest I should be able to achieve. 

    No I doubt there will even be a facebook post.  :D
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