Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Followed the morning sesh up with what I like to do as the last working week of the week - 4miler with the 250 feet or so wood climb first half, then flat road, down, and same park as earlier to finish on.

    49.5miles this week, 2 lovely sleeps with niente, then we go again Sunday.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    Lively on here  :D 

    13 to finish a 62.5mile week.

    Sampled a new route up to Penn, without having to do the whole loop out to Beaconsfield and round first.
    A decent progressive route up, not too steep.

    Just meant a bit of padding for a couple of miles out late doors, but all good.

    Might have to work to fit a long run in for a few weeks due to a number of races coming up, so nice to bank this.
  • 13.6M for me today for longest run since August Also my longest week for ages at 48M. 

    All was going fine until a downhill with a mile to go. I had to overtake some of the tail-enders of a trail race and as I did, I stepped into a deep leaf-covered rut, pulling the hamstring again! Of course, having just overtaken I couldn’t slow down or stop! Hopefully a Monday off will see it right as it’s a bit sore at the mo. 

    It’s funny, I did a run yesterday too, hilly but reasonably slow pace with my new beau and the legs felt great after that!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I'm used to seeing footballers pull hamstrings and be out for 6 weeks, so one that doesn't slow you and you're talking in single day rest day terms sounds a decent version of one  :p
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    I properly tore a hamstring playing football in October 2004, exactly like Owen against Leeds, through on goal and about to see the net bulge and twang, proper been shot, hopping from full speed until I was going slow enough to hit the deck. I couldn't even drive home with it and had to drive home left footed!

    I had a place in the London marathon as well as we knew a lady who worked in the office there and she just slipped them in the yes box :D 

    I was out for 6 months. Got back to the gym 6 weeks out from the London marathon, trained for 4 weeks on a step machine did 1 week of running and then gave it a crack! 1:37 halfway and then an absolute death march from 16 miles to finish in 3:40. Easily the darkest place I ever went to physically. My wife, then girlfriend did it in about 5:30 hours, she found me in a small park somewhere face down and asleep!

    I also have little micro tears now and again and you can keep running with them.

    Anyway back to the here and now and I managed only 32 miles this week, two swims and 130 miles on the bike though made for a productive week. There was probably two hours of Pilates/Yoga in there too. Felt a bit niggly with the running after the TVXC race.

    Had a close call on the bike yesterday, coming down a hill in the Chilterns at around 35 mph and a bloody pheasant appeared out of the hedgerow and across my path, in a split second this dopey bird was desperately flapping for all its worth to elevate itself whilst I was simultaneously ducking down as far as my bike frame would allow me and together we just managed to avoid a collision that would have had me literally and metaphorically spitting feathers! Thankfully all I had to show for it was a strain in the neck.
  • The Bus said:
    I had to overtake some of the tail-enders of a trail race and as I did, I stepped into a deep leaf-covered rut, pulling the hamstring again! 
    What race was that? I first thought it was the Rugged Radnage but that is miles from where you were. 

    Reg Wand said:
    Had a close call on the bike yesterday, coming down a hill in the Chilterns at around 35 mph and a bloody pheasant appeared out of the hedgerow and across my path, in a split second this dopey bird was desperately flapping for all its worth to elevate itself whilst I was simultaneously ducking down as far as my bike frame would allow me and together we just managed to avoid a collision that would have had me literally and metaphorically spitting feathers! Thankfully all I had to show for it was a strain in the neck.
    I don't like going down Balham's Lane at the best of times: far too steep and bendy and full of 4x4s. Luckily there are a heap of footpaths that do the same descent so if I'm running then there are other options. 35 mph on a bike with a pheasant up ahead must be scary! Strava says you got a PB so that low profile must have helped ;) 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Whole host of Wendover Woods races Phil. 10k/HM/M I think. Put on by Nice Work who do a large number of races, but normally based South coast/Kent way.

    I had a look at Rugged Radnage for some mad reason, but decided similar or slightly more elevation per mile than Marlow 7 and a severe climb at the end was not the stuff of legend.

    There was a 5k, that the Dominator came 2nd in, so there was definite pot hunt potential there, but was much more important to get a long run in.
  • So, in that low-profile position Reg you were a pheasant tucker? A pretty close shave!

    And yes, not a proper tear SG, just aggravating the ongoing niggle - I hope!

    Not sure which event it was Philip - there's one every other week in Wendover, but something to do with the Wendover Woods festival of running I think.
  • Running with beau sounds very exciting Bus - hamstring tweak less so.
    Scary pheasant escapade there Reg - glad you survived unscathed.
    Down in Devon for the weekend so tackled Woolacombe Dunes parkrun for real for the 1st time. I did 7 (not)parkruns there between October '20 & March '21& figured it'd be interesting to see how my solo TTs compared - it was a disappointment with this being my 6th slowest time! The sand seemed unusually soft but that didn't stop a number of those ahead of me gaining PBs. My time was 23:29, 71s slower than my best solo attempt, but still good enough for 8th.
    Just an easy 10K yesterday to bring up another light week (44M).
    Kicked off this week with 4.5M at lunch today to bring up 3,000 for the year with just shy of 300,000 feet of elevation.
  • A runner, Bus? Good catch! Well done on the long run and hope the hammy is ok. 

    Haha the London yes box made me laugh, Reg. Wonder if there is still a bit of that now or not. 

    Woolacombe parkrun must be tough underfoot, Jools. My neighbour did it with a buggy and reckoned it was his toughest ever run. Well done on the 3000. I need 8.08/day for that. Don’t think I’ll catch the elevation 😆 

    So which races have you pencilled in, SG? 


    Squeezed in a few small doubles in the week, before a 14.5M long buggy run on Saturday, 8:30 average. On the cold side, but little wind. Loved it. 

    Headed to the Forest yesterday for a few fun family activities. Took the lad for a buggy nap along some of the family trail. Worried it wouldn’t be great underfoot/wheel, but it was pretty good really. Beautiful environment and really good to run somewhere else with the buggy. 3M out, with a consistent 320ft climb. Took it easy so about 10m/m, before returning and enjoying a bit of free speed on the return. Maybe 9:15 average so a good recovery. 

    64M for the week. Not able to hit the length of each run in the plan, but squeezing in the miles where possible. 

    Racecourse tempo tomorrow before finishing at a surgery for my booster jab. 

  • sss 7.5 on Run Britain - the 4th highest of all events I've ever done!
    Christ knows how he did it with a buggy. There's a steep hard trail descent then after about 6-700m it turns into a sandy bridleway which becomes a narrow gully followed by a dune to get down on to the beach then after a mile along the beach you climb back up to the bridleway via a massive sand dune along the sandy bridleway then back up the steep trail to the finish!
    This shot of the bridleway on the return gives you some idea No description available
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    That explains the time Jools! Probably quite a nice casual run route, not sure I'd want to race it :D 
    Only done one race with sand.

    The old Sandhurst xc course. It was some sort of army training ground, starting with a romp down a hill, into woods, out of woods on trail, mud, a sandy field, followed with a slog back up the initial hill. Always was wet for that one, and always seemed to have a massive pool of water near the start.

    New course these days, and that's Sunday's venue.
    I'm aiming to do a 5mile road course though, don't want to get sucked into XC, I'll do the next one and at most 3 of the 6.

    SQ - at least 1 5miler and 1 xc then, potential to slot another 5miler in the middle
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    ps SQ, 64miles is tasty if that isn't even the full mileage of the plan!

    Tempo for me today. Another 6miler. Today's came out 6.12 (versus 6.11 last time), but last mile 6.02, so a bit quicker than the finish to those.

    Felt slightly harder today, but potentially a few more little bits and pieces out on route, such as monitoring cars weren't going to pull out etc!
    But pretty consistent to last time and it's more about the zone than expecting a pace increase each week!

    It's funny looking at the graph of the route as it looks like it has big ups and downs, but the scale is about 20 feet, so doesn't at all!
  • I liked the old Sandhurst course, great finish with the hill then a wide open somme like finishing straight! I've not done the new one but I'll try to get there this Sunday.

    Solid week of mileage SQ, I had no guilt as I think I was guaranteed a place in the London marathon that year having been rejected 4 times in a row. Those were the days when you had to pop into the Sweatshop to pick up a form to fill in and post! Oh how times have changed with the internet, makes me think about using the phone to make fantasy team changes and looking the team score up in the newspaper! Proper geek stuff took a bit of effort back then. 

    That sandy course looks great Jools.

    Was hoping for a long run this morning but I woke up too late so did shy of 6 miles with strides instead.





  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I'd forgotten the finish bit Reg. Was quite a decent bit of distance, at least 400metres I think.
    You didn't really want to be in a hard race there after getting up the hill.

    Every year a decent photo of the start comes up with me and Graham, Sandhurst's top man, and usual winner back in those days laughing about 50metres in. I'm sure i'd said something along the lines of "i'm winning", which while was certainly optimistic, wasn't "that" optimistic versus these days. I was probably a safe top 10 in those days.

    New course is reasonably interesting (assuming it is still the same course!).
    2 laps, drop on some rough stuff quite soon, gradual clamber back into the woods and a bit muddy and undulating for ages. Then a curve round a bend and down, then probably the steepest up in any of the XCs, even including HX, but reasonably short. But sheer up type material, that you certainly get killed stone dead by second time round.

    Some dangerous little bits in the woods with roots having to be painted white, down on some ploughed fields, then straight back to the finish. 
    Chances are you'll have someone screaming at you to gain places on the 2nd time round up the hill, but it's one of those where someone looks really close but is a real hard job to capture a few metres by then.
  • Jools - 300k of elevation LOL. Love that. 

    So ran to Dunstable Downs Parkrun Saturday morning, it was another family affair, me first in 1803, Ollie did well in 22.56 and the missus 26.50. Felt ok, steady start in about 5th, then slowly through the field to the leader, a guy from LBAC who I ran with until about 3k when I moved away. 

    Went to Derby Saturday night for the footie Sunday morning (less said etc etc.) and had a slightly fragile 6.5 miles before breakfast with the guy who is doing 7 running and 19 cycling each day for the Hodgkinsons lymphoma charity. It’s what one of our players, David Brooks has been diagnosed with. 

    Decent tempo last night, 6.5 miles, pace 6.15’s and I felt like I could have done a couple more miles comfortably. This is apparently a good way of gaging a correct tempo pace. If you fall on your face at the end it’s too quick. 

    Training at Luton tonight. 
  • My best result at Sandhurst was 17th back in 2011. I was 6th finisher for Datchet and we had 3 in the top 4. That was back in the day when the overall ranking was the score of the top 6 men plus the score of the top 3 women so that cluster won us the match quite easily. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    Simon, if I'm going out 6.12 for 6, then 6.15 for you will certainly be comfy! Unless it was a hilly route etc.

    Phil, they might need you as 6th man this weekend from the hard luck stories going on!
    I stated I was out weeks ago, so not getting sucked back in!

    The problem is now, is you can have a quality men's outfit, but 4 women are weighted the same as 6 men. But it's probably quite a bit harder to get 4 good women, so any team that has them has a big advantage.

    There's a few "competitive" bits of play going on from what I hear.
    There's been teams signing up loads of fast 2nd claimers for a few years , but apparently one team tried to get one of our front boys disqualified as for some reason power of 10 has him also listed as Maidenhead! Despite him having turned out for us solely for years on end. Bizarre. :D 
  • I find it hard to imagine anyone caring about how teams do in this league, it's one step up from Parkrun FFS!  :D
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Wanting to win is fine, and adds a decent element, but not through cynical means!
  • Lots of tempoing going on. Good from SG, and if SC is 6:15, we run them to a different feel! Nice parkrun first finisher as well. 

    Great photo, Jools. Sounds a looks a really exciting course. I run bits of it on a few occasions, but only at easy effort. 

    Second week of the block called for 18 mins, 4 jog, 14. Managed around 6:23 pace - a 2s improvement from last week. So if I continue in a linear fashion, I will be at PB exactly on race day 😆. 10M at 7:15 average until a bit of faffing at the end waiting for a level crossing. 

    Got chatting to the pharmacist who delivered the booster. Along the lines of ‘you don’t get many turning up in running kit’. She was lovely and went on to tell me all about her son who ran a 16 minute parkrun last weekend and is doing a PhD at Oxford and is their fastest runner going into the varsity XC match at WImbledon next week. What a way to piss all over the elation of my 32 minutes at 6:23s 😆 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    All about definitions with "tempo" isn't it SQ.

    I'll find out how mine today relates to 5mile pace soon! If I put in 6.11 pace for a 5mile race I was obviously busting absolute beans today :D 

    Just tell yourself she doesn't have a clue about his actual running and he's actually done a 26min 5k and is doing an adult learning evening class at Oxford Brookes  :p 
  • Stevie G said:
    Wanting to win is fine, and adds a decent element, but not through cynical means!
    The whole XC, club turnout and points scoring issue is always open to debate as there is not an obvious answer. Every XC captain goes around and says "everyone counts and we want as big a turnout as possible" and it is true that everyone counts but not everyone matters.

    If you look at the Datchet event, then the turnout was 500 (plus 7 guests): 300 men and 200 ladies. One team fielded just 4 men so got 301 penalty points each for their last 2 men and another got a 201 penalty for fielding just 3 women. The teams with penalties were ranked lowest 15th. 

    For the men, the top 11 teams had their top 6 runners inside the top 113 so anyone finishing 114th or above has no impact at all on those 11 teams and there is a mathematical chance they influence the other teams but in reality, the gaps are so large it is unlikely. 

    If you change the system to use the mob match approach (so last finisher gets 1 point and first finisher gets the same number of points as finishers and add all those up) then the order is almost identical. There are small detailed differences (so e.g. Datchet go from 1st to 8th but as they are hosts they have a small number of runners out) but really no difference: the bigger the club the more fast runners and the better you are. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    The way the ages are creeping up, they'll soon have to insist that 2 from your scorers are UNDER 40  :D 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    7miler today, fancied a trip towards Wycombe's ground, up New Road, which is a 1mile gradual then steepening hill, then flat, down a hill and flat back.

    Often I go out a bit further on the flat, then take a steeper version up say 200metres, even steeper right hand turn for another 200m or so, but you've done the elevation over a shorter period.

    Almost talked myself out of the former over the first 2miles, but glad I went through with it, and the rewards kicked in when at the peak and the easiest stuff left to finish.

    Little sniffy, but will ease it down for the rest of this week and hope the usual Saturday OFF revitalises pre race.
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    'Their fastest runner going into the varsity XC match at Wimbledon next week' - SQ - I suggest he was jogging that Parkrun if that quote is true!

    Tempo wise - It was actually a RW podcast that was saying that Tempo pace should be a pace where you should be able to run an extra 15% or so extra comfortably. So if you can't - you are going too fast.

    So Luton last night, 5 x 1200 on the paths and roads near the golf club. 80 seconds recovery, think they started on 3.52 and ended with 3.45. Best thing was not getting upper left leg discomfort, been working on it with the home made dumbell (big bleach bottle) and doing opposite planks (left leg, right arm). Seems to be making a difference as I need the skinnier left leg to come to the party!
  • Easy then, gang. Continuing on with my trend of reading every post and never actually posting myself. Always really enjoy reading about all the turnouts as well as the sessions and other adventures everyone has got going on.

    SG seems to have won some mugs, Reg had a decent XC result, Simon's managing to train and drink consistently, and still be faster than all of us. 

    Sounds like the trail marathon was great fun SQ and glad to see you're back into it now. 

    After I somehow managed to wangle a half decent result in london (full report here for anyone who is bored at work), gave myself a bit of R&R before really getting stuck back into my running for the first time in ages - just because I miss being at the level I've been at in the past.

    It's taken a while for it to start feeling like things are improving, but I've logged 60+ miles for the past 4 weeks and it's moving in the right direction.

    Did a Surrey League XC race couple of weekends back. Standard is as laughable as ever. We're in Division 2 now (I reckon I went into the race in 17:45ish 5km shape), and I went as hard as possible. Came 54th, with division 3&4 running an identical course an hour or so later, with another 25 guys posting a faster time than me.

    That's not even taking into account division one the previous day, where I'd have been WAY outside the top 150. Bonkers.

    Starting to build up the long runs and sessions. Did 4 mile tempo yesterday on some undulating country lanes which came out at 5:55mm pace.

    Looking for a 10km turnout on the weekend of the 11/12 December and going to have a crack at a parkun just before Christmas. Building towards Seville marathon in Feb and then we're hopping across the pond to do Boston in April.

    Will try and check in more regularly if I can!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021
    SC, is that podcast put on by the same people who put their mags together?  :D

    I'm interested in paces in context of races.
    A man of your caliber has done a 2.39 marathon. That's 6.04 pace.
    You've done a HM of 1.13.45. That's 5.38 per mile

    Those are 2015 times, but you did a similar HM in 2018 and I reckon you could get similar times off now.

    So a 6.15 tempo (assuming nothing silly with elevation) is slower than your MP. So more in the "steady" sort of mixer instead? Will that be your starting position and those will ramp up then? Or will you keep at that intensity?  What did you do when you focused on longer stuff?


    Under the Moz training, I'd perhaps start off with some steady tempos, but they had a 30secs or so range, but then it'd quickly drill down into HMP + 15secs, then develop from there


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Good to hear from you Joe.
    Your "Tempo" is the other side of the coin entirely...sounds more the 20min variety that's in and around actual threshold/10mile intensity?
    Bet that feels hard work!
  • I consider 'tempo' to be a longer continuous run below lactate threshold  by maybe 15 seconds per mile. I'd guess around 6:00 to 6:10 pace at the moment. So it would be just a bit quicker than marathon pace, which I'd have at about 6:20. It would also be at the lower end of the lactate threshold range so I would start around tempo in a progression. This is mostly theory for me as I rarely feel confident enough to do these sessions.

    Good to see the progression on the running Joe, I suspect you can get closer to 17 than you suggest, with fresh legs. 

    Last night I decided to head out the door and see how far I could run without leaving what I consider to be my village area and without repeating any part or crossing my path, a bit like a game of snake. I managed 12 miles although there were a couple of bits I may disqualify myself for. Kept the mind occupied and led to a few weird route options. I did have calf issues though so it ended up being quite a slow one as I resorted to running with more calf friendly technique.

    I probably need to do some strength work on them as the stuff I did on the hamstrings appears to have been beneficial.
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