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Over 60's training (Part 2)
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Had visitors the weekend so far to much alcohol for any running.
Mick
The answer to your question is not a simple one as there are a lot of variables as is illustrated by the responses from Graham, alehouse and Ray.
Not sure if I have enough time just now but I will make a start.
Assuming that one is aerobically fit as a starting point, and I will define that a bit more later, then what limits performance as one ages?
Well the starting point is muscle composition and how it changes under the effects of training. Training load basically creates conditions within the muscle tissue, the mitochondria, that stimulates the muscle tissue to divide and increase. This enables the muscles to utilise more oxygen to combine with fuel pathways to produce energy. Basically the more muscle tissue the more oxygen can be transported by the blood (haemoglobin) to the muscles and used there.
In the young body the DNA chain in the muscle tissue is complete and effects the change in the mitochondria quite easily and swiftly - hence the young respond to training load very swiftly - remember those days?
As we age the DNA chains become a bit more fragmented, bits break off etc and the sequencing isn't so efficient (it's called ageing!) and so it becomes harder to produce the muscle adaptation required even with increased training. As a result muscle tissue starts to deteriorate in quantity with a consequent reduction in the body's ability to handle oxygen volume - so less energy conversion, lower speed etc. You will all have heard of VO2 max
The aerobic system, heart and lungs, may still produce enough oxygen enriched blood to sustain a higher level of output but if the muscle tissue cannot utilise it all ( bearing in mind that the body will always preserve life safety systems to the brain and heart etc over other demands - the Central Governor Theory) because of reduced capacity then one gets slower.
Ah, ha I hear you say - but how do I increase my muscle capacity to utilise any spare oxygen carrying capability in my body so that I don't get slower?
Short answer is you can't as the damaged DNA cannot replicate tissue fast enough anymore.
However in the well trained aerobic body one can still try and stimulate some tissue enhancement by mixing up the training and stimulating other muscle tissue responses typically by targetting the different types of muscle fibre.
Slow, steady runs recruit the ST (slow twitch) fibres.
up to Lactate threshold training will recruit the FT-A (Fast Twitch - Type A) fibres
>Lactate threshold training and faster will recruit FT-B (Fast Twitch - Type B ) fibres
So a training speed mix of speed will, as alehouse alluded to, benefit one the most because it maximises the muscle fibres targetted by the training.
BUT that increased training intensity does carry increased risk of injury as higher training intensity increases levels of lactate in the muscles to the point where the body can neither utilise it (yes lactate does become an energy source in small quantities) nor absorb it and the mineral sources associated with lactate (which acts as a marker for them) cause muscle failure or contraction failure resulting in either extreme fatigue or muscle failure - tears/pulls etc
That brings us onto what causes muscle fatigue - and that is where it gets complicated. I'll have to come back to that later...................
Bitterly cold here, although not by Mick's standards! Just over half an hour banked after work before it got dark. And a few stretches and balance work whilst watching the first half of The Foxes.
So I got back on the (invisible) horse and have done a couple of 5ks since. Luckily I didn't lose much speed in the downtime. On which topic I see that Mick has raised the issue of loss of pace as we get older Here's my take...............
I'm a bit lucky in that I've managed to hang on to reasonable pace over the 5k distance - eg at 61 4.04 mins kms and at nearly 67, 4.08 minute kms. But still slower. I can't quite put my finger on the cause but what I have noticed is that when I do 'flat out' short intervals (say 250 metres) my pace isn't that fast (around 4.02). This points to a lack of power, I think. I've also noticed that I've no longer got any sort of finishing 'kick'. I'm like a sitting duck in the last 200 metres as 'youngers' stream past me. Again a lack of power -akin to putting your foot down on the accelerator and nothing happening.
Having said that I did manage a 3rd place (against all ages) in a hilly 5k last Sunday - but that was mainly explained by the fact that there was a 10k being run at the same time and the stronger runners chose to do that one.
cough, cough .................... aerobic conditioning
6miles yesterday @9:07 pace.Have a five mile race on Sunday,hoping for 43mins or thereabouts.
Boot camp yesterday and post boot camp run but blind as battery died in Garmin after BC.
Today although I went out I was not feeling the love and Achilles sore so another rest day.
Tomorrow is another day:-)
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Dave
Good to see you got out, Birch! Keep it up!
And good news, JB!
In a bid for more consistent consistency another 30 minutes here, with the HR still too high for the effort.
21.26 (79.00% WAVA) was reasonable in the circumstances.
Hats off to anyone who got out for a run today of any length over any terrain - and (of course) at any age.
Well done John getting out and decent time as well;-)
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Much snow on that side of the Pennines, Birch, TS, GL? And others!
Just over 25 chilly minutes here. Which was all I wanted to do. Despite two short sleeved tops, one long sleeved, one thick jacket, two pairs of bottoms etc I am not sure that I ever really got warm: icy wind burning my face was the main problem. Anyway I got out there!
I'll drop to lower level tomorrow and do a few miles.
Dave
As a former sprinter I suspect that is what happened to me - of course only muscle biopsy is a truly reliable marker of such adn I'm not giving up my muscle mass just yet!!
Dave
good timing on your run. looks like it will get worse today - it is snowing hard here as I type.
John
hope the wind was behind you!
WP
dodging trees is no fun
alehouse
well done for getting out there!!
Ray
hope the race goes well with no adverse weather conditions!
Cold here this morning after a very cold night so the ground was well frozen.
Started off slowly and got slower not helped by being overtaken by a seeming stream of blonde female runners who all had a cheery "good morning" as they zoomed past me
There must have been five of them in the first mile until I began to think they were doing a quick costume change just to annoy me!!
So with a bit of Dave/WP thrown in in I baled out after 1.5 miles - wimp!!
I blame it on Xmas shopping yesterday - that slow, shopping walk just saps my will to live and move!
I will return with my muscle fatigue piece later when I have recovered from my current fatigue.
At the moment I fell a bit like the replicant Roy Batty in Blade Runner (the original of course)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdUq2opPY-Q
all that knowledge about running about to be lost...........
2015 (age 60) 1:29 HM, 3:18 marathon, 20:47 5K (in middle of a 16 mile run) oh, and S.Yorks V60 XC winner.
2021 (now 67)
this pic is a perfect description of my gait this morning !
Was fortunate with location, though. As I alluded in previous post, I headed to the lower level only to find pavements covered in frozen, rutted slush. N had arranged to come over for her session (we both thought would be clear around this "industrial" loop). Luckily, just as I had parked and was observing the conditions with dismay, N called saying she'd be late, so we were able to change location to the lakes on the south (snowfree) side of town. Otherwise, she'd have made a fruitless trip, in terms of suitable surface for tempo running. As it transpired paths over there mainly clear (odd bit of avoidable ice), so 9 miles for me - (tights underneath tracksters) - 1c - legs as stated, but lovely and bright, no wind, so happy to be out there. Quick coffee back at N's (her partner was fishing - and some would have it that we runners are daft ! ), then back home, just arriving before latest heavy flurries !
Now for Chelsea v Man Utd
Dave
It was also -1c here as well and I thought iced up pavements but no just the cars.So boot Camp then a post BC run just under 4 miles and 2 mins faster than last week.I think it is a good warm up and later time to run 8.45am rather than 6am.
Wrist is still sore so BC exercises with wrist adapted for me thank goodness.
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Dave
even the Tin Man looks more mobile than me
I could almost match your figures for 60, although no marathon done, but a HM in 1:30 and a 10K in 42 min.
10 years on I could still do a HM in 1:36 and a 10K in 45 min.
Another 5 years on and I can't even run 5K...................
WP
Sensible running time and you can also see what's coming! Torches are all very well but they do flatten out surfaces and make it hard to judge footfall.
Good 4 miles after BC.
We had dinner at my son's house yesterday - g'daughter's birthday - and then walked home as alcohol had been consumed.
By gum- it were cold even for a tough northern lad - with frost and ice glinting evilly in the street lights.
Trotted round this morning to pick the car up and it was even colder at -5C and a chilling breeze and more slippery underfoot so took a sensible short route!!
Car was frozen up and it took some effort to get a door open and then many more minutes to shift the ice!
I wish I could run later but apart from weekend we have traffic and schools to contend with and life getting in the way.
Well done on short route we have similar temps this morning!! I put head out of door and thought wait till it gets light and warmer but of course it was still -3 so opted to stay warm and do TBP instead....I must be getting older
Looking to run 8 miles as long run this week which means Tuesday or Wednesday.Then 10 miles the week after and continue with long run at 10 miles ready for NYE.
That was a very moving scene by Roy Batty....don't think I have ever seen the film or if I have many moons ago.
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
meant to say - "fishing"!!!!
What was he trying to catch - frozen fish fingers?
Well done on the 9 miles - that pulls the weekly total up quite a bit
WP
chicken
I thought you had a new top to try out?
In truth I had my Mizuno top worn on top of my merino wool base layer, and gloves, this morning and it was just about ok.
The scene was from Bladerunner - made back in 1987. I don't much go for si-fi films but it is rightly regarded as an all time classic and far removed from the bang. bang, shoot 'em up type.
This new Covid strain is going to cause some problem, I think, going forward.
Just about to email the Hash to see if they wish to continue meeting on an outdoors basis only after only just getting used to pub venues again
A little cooler at -3c with a light covering of snow but it appears that you are getting more severe weather in the UK.
Interesting comments on loss of speed. I feel that there is a mental component to it as well. Do I want to push as hard, no. Do I lack confidence am I worried that I will get hurt, definitely yes.
The new covid strain has not caused any issues here as yet we are still slowly returning to normal. About the only thing that is obvious is the wearing of face masks indoors
Dave,
I can most certainly identify with your tinman.
John,
Keep this up and you will qualify for a parkrun here in January.
Graham,
It sounds like you and I are following the same trajectory.
Mick
I am not producing a lot of mucus but my sinus is still inflamed. It appears that it takes a while to clear after a serious attack
Mick
welcome back
Rather worryingly we appear to be tilting towards your extremes of weather! A town on the Pennines recorded -14C to -7C in one day.
Step ups in training pace are to be done slowly!
Several years ago I too had a severe nasal infection which wouldn't shift. Eventually went to the docs and he diagnosed "post nasal drip". I was prescribed a purified sea water nasal spray which helped reduce the problem but I still get some attacks when the weather changes as the infection is not fully cleared up and the only way to do it is to irrigate the nasal passages with antibiotics under a local anesthetic - it's not bad enough for that!!!
Pleasant Hash last night in a local market town and a very good ending in the local hostelry complete with roaring log fire, sandwiches and beer as I wasn't driving
Yesterday no idea what I did but I did run Ah I remember 3.5 miles over the hills.
Today a mess up of a morning needed more sleep and had to be at surgery for my PA jab at 9am, post parcel ,collect scripts and then find chemist was going to delivery Mr P's shakes 10-2pm so zoomed out to run but we had high winds so in the space of 0.68 mile I had 4 huge trees across the cycle path to content with after last one which I could barely get over I called it a day!
Tomorrow has to be a better day.
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
I'm doing the salt water rinsing, fairly disgusting but it does seem to help.
Like the sound of your evening, to be savoured.
WP,
I think I might describe your life as a little bit on the stressful side. I am waiting for the day when you report that you went for an easy run on a flat course, the sun was shining, everyone was smiling and greeting you with a cheery wave and there was a drink of your choice waiting for you when you arrived home.
A rest day today so walked the dog and then went off to the Christmas tree farm for a hot chocolate and cookies. We also picked up a tree.
Mick
The latest weather report is cold winds from the north so you may have to tough it out some more.
TS,
Sounds a ideal setting to recover from your Hash run.
You always seem to find a way to get some exercise and few treats.
Sundays 5mile race done in a time of 40:25 came 2nd MV70.
Last nights track session was a slider effort of 6,5,4,2.1 minutes.Recoveries half of running time.Paces 7.21-7.28-7.16-7.09-6.58-6.52
very well done on your race results
Your track efforts were even more impressive after a tough race - very strong running for your shorter times indeed
I can confirm it is getting colder here -so prepare!
WP
try keeping busy
Mick
with you on the rinsing.
I did find that after I had been on holiday to the Med one year and spent a lot of time swimming and snorkelling in the sea that it improved the situation a lot - so you need a holiday somewhere warm as recovery and swim each day
that's about 7 miles more than me
In fairness I had an early appointment so couldn't follow my usual routine - just as well as my previous day's efforts had left me crippled in both legs!!
Pity as it was a lovely crisp morning here as well
well done on the race, if only...
TS,
Well that is very generous of you to offer., when should I pack my bucket and spade.
Is it both knees or something new?
Crappy weather so down to the mancave for 5k on the treadmill while bopping to some oldies.
Back down there this afternoon with some munchies to watch Spurs.
Mick