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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Surely it is just like a spinning class where everyone starts and finishes at the same time and covers the same course.
Reg/SQ - I find I've got to get over 70mpw to lose weight (though I don't swim or cycle so volume/time wise not as much as it sounds). IMHO, cumulative training is more important than weight (within reason obviously). I've run one of my quickest marathons carrying 2.5kg more than my pb, despite less training volume.
SC - I think I remember you - dark hair, red and black hooped club vest? Good to see you bouncing back post-covid. Nice 800s. 2:24 for a 16 year old, on a rep, is good going too!
My track last night was a 10km TT as a LT top-up before Manchester. Normal trainers. Ran 35:19 finishing stronger with plenty left in the tank so I'm starting to regain some reasonable shape.
How best to explain this succinctly?
Firstly you need a power meter. This is either built into your turbo trainer or it would be a pedal or a crank based system. They use strain gauges that will directly measure the force (displacement) applied by the rider so you can't just jump off the treadmill here. The speed in the game is then derived by dividing your power by your weight to give watts per kilo. The other factor would be the height of the rider which I think has some influence on the CDA or drag coefficient, how aerodynamic you theoretically are.
These are the results from last night's race. Rider data is available for all to see, including weight height etc so to just put in a fake weight is possible but you can get called out on it. In the top leagues or the top riders, they actually post videos on Youtube of their weigh-ins and these are linked to their profiles.
You have to wear a heart rate monitor or you get penalised. If you're suspected of cheating you'll get disqualified. The race organisers, who are mainly third party cycling nerds and not employees of Zwift will do some analysis of results to weed out anything that looks dodgy and there are plenty of riders who will scan the results looking for unusual correlations of power to HR.
Weigh-in of the chap that came 4th
https://youtu.be/acp4fDBpvqc
As for the race itself, everyone is in the same virtual environment together actually racing each other real time, so you actually have tactics and virtual drafting as you sit on someones wheel etc.
This is a stream someone did of one of Sunday's races. 10 seconds of this probably gives a better description of what's going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqhc7ORUoBg
I'm not that up on benchmarks for track type racers, but a 16 year old girl hitting 2.24 for a rep late on in a session has to be a pretty big talent I'd have thought?
Track racing is such a different world. I remember turning up at Watford for a few 3ks, and it must genuinely be like what parkrunners/newbies feel turning up at road races and seeing all these "serious" club runners.
I've probably run about 280 or so road races, and 3 track races, and managed to get through the 280 road races without 1 telling off, yet managed 3 or 4 tellings off in those 3 track races!
Taking the split at the end of a lap blocking the camera showing my number.
Running across the grass in the middle of the track (even though no field events on)
Number on back falling off
etc
Yes SG our star kid was top 10 at the English schools, Tuesday night she did reps 1-4 then 6&8. Dragged her mum round on the other two reps - mum is a very good vet runner...easy with fast parents isn't it
I've never been told off at Watford before - warned about my language once, that probably counts! I hardly ever go across the infield at a track...just seem wrong!
Wife has a parents evening tonight so taking the kid with me to the track - should be a laugh...
I suspect that's because the official results only have gun time on and to find your chip you have to click into your name.
Po10 being pros are probably insisting on proper results with both columns viewable.
They are also quite expensive, several times more than I'd pay for a full bike!
It doesn't have the bike handling skills that a real cyclist has, so if you come to a downhill section and give it beans then it isn't like going down Balham's Lane at almost 40 mph and changing your underwear afterwards.
It would be good if there were an equivalent for runners but I can't see any technical way to do that: treadmills are so varied and open to abuse that any competing would be flawed.
Just across town, as I'm in the habit of enjoying these in the local area at the mo, rather than driving 15mins and back to the track.
3.33, 3.29,3.29,3.30,3.32
First one was a bit loose with a bit across grass, but the middle 3 were on the money. Probably slightly casual on the last one, but all in the middle of the 3.30/3.31 sort of mixer.
Just to be clear, I am a parkrun fan: I like to meet up with friends on a Saturday morning and run a 5k and if I am away from home and there is a local parkrun close by I'll take it in if the logistics are reasonable. I like the website and the fact that you get a time and I'm happy to do my share of volunteering. I am not an evangelist: I ran for years before parkrun ever happened and if it disappeared today I'd miss it but I'd still run.
parkrun has, however, changed over the last years. The website section for What is parkrun? says
parkruns are free, weekly, community events all around the world.
It doesn't even say run or walk or anything, it is a community event. All that has brought in the usual bureaucracy.
We all know that if you are out running then there is a risk from dogs (especially if you wear bacon aftershave as bus does) and parkrun have identified that long leads present a trip hazard so soon long leads will be banned and you have to have the dog on a short lead by your side so no waist harness and the dog maybe 6 feet or more ahead of you.
Then you get the backlash, so dog owners say there is no evidence of the danger and are now planning to do a "barkrun" at 8am ahead of parkrun at 9am (in the same park and on the same course).
Absolute nonsense: if the organisation you subscribe to sets a rule then you abide by it, however silly it may seem. It definitely won't help parkrun to have barkrun.
The argument of the dog fans looks to be that having a dog on a handheld leash is probably no safer than these people who strap themselves to their pooch and barrel through fields, so in effect they've banned the safer option of the two.
Banning all dogs is probably the more sensible option and takes out the awkwardness of some marshal having to differentiate between different types of harness/leash etc.
But banning anyone seems against the overall vibe of inclusivity.
No-one seems to ever try and do parkruns on skateboards or on bikes, or being towed by someone on either of them, so I'm not sure why being towed by a dog ever became a thing anyway to be honest.
Anyway - took the boy down to Luton last night, he did a few 600's when I did my 8 reps. Not quite eyeballs out as I was making sure he was ok too. times were about 1.47's I think.
I'm leg 8 on Sunday, short leg thankfully. See you there SG & TT
If you are a real canicross and doing sub-15 minutes for 5k then you are in nobody's way, same if you are out for a Saturday morning jog and start at the back and scoot round in 30 minutes odd. If you are relatively young and your dog is relatively big then you will be in the mix with a lot of other runners. I have enough problems with people who are on a path and see a puddle and step sideways to miss the puddle without as much a sideways or backwards glance and don't need dogs adding to that.
Same with buggies, dangerous in the mix but probably have less of a mind of their own than dogs but still a weapon in the right hands.
There won’t be many/any barkrunners on the vast majority of courses.
I disagree with your assessment that the super speedy Cani-X racers pose no hazard Phil. Sure that’s true on a single lap course but not on narrow pathed multi-lappers. Then there’s the dog which pulls their ‘runner’ for the 1st K before tiring which then has to be overtaken.
Tidy reps again SG.
4.5M easy today on the canal.
You don't always get an instant reaction going past parkrunners on multiple laps at my recent paces, let alone a sub 15 dog attached "tow-ee" suddenly zooming past.
SC - ah they've buried you mid pack to minimise you slowing the team down
Our team is literally crawling to the event. Someone got covid late doors, meaning our out for 2months injured captain who has only just restarted jogging is in.
Plus there's a whisper of a runner's partner being a risk too....
The team photos will have to be distanced jobs this year for safety I think!!
Nice 600s from your boy.
PMJ - totally agree on buggies. One woman positioned herself right at the front with one a few weeks ago with a "don't mind me, I just like to start at the front instead of surrounded by people", and then proceeded to be swamped and in the way.
It doesn't sound much odds, but psychologically sub 5miles sounds a lot better than more!
At least I'm coming down off a 10k last weekend, so it'll feel less either way
These things are notorious for the distance being different to billed though, but 8.662km sounds worryingly specific not to be!
Think the women go off at 1pm, so you'll miss them. I like being on a leg where they're out, for simple extra numbers.
Otherwise it can sometimes be a case of a lonely run, and every so often someone monsters by!
I do remember the course as being a bit rutted, I used the 4% shoes for only the 2nd time, there in 2019 and they scuffed up horribly. Probably more so that day, then in the 130 or so miles afterwards.
Just a cautionary tale for anyone considering the really high priced shoes.
Think i'll use them again, as they've become the B event shoe now.
The "it's just playing" is hardly a defence when the red stuff is flowing.
We came back 35th, with a guy who was probably a 1hr 12 half sort of mix.
SC - sorry I missed you, but good run from you too.
Short version for me is I'd figured anything under 30minutes as a controlled run would be acceptable. This was before I realised quite how rutted and undulating it was. Happy to get around in 29:34 with a bit held back. First 3km @ 3:23. Switched off a bit for 4&5 (3:30) before getting back to 3:23/km for the last 3.662km. Definitely starting to get a bit closer to a reasonable level of running fitness.
Thanks for the Endure trophy hand off to Dachs, and that's a cracking output in a high (by our standards!) mileage week before hand.
And good to see SC too.
By recent years standards, that's a decent thread meet up, especially as Wool and Dachs were there too, and I think very infrequent poster Scott P was there as well.
It was a heck of a long day yesterday, only got home gone 7pm, having set off 10.15ish, so I best get a quick (!) race report in now.
We fielded a team in 2017, that Phil J was part of at Gravesend, 2018 was snowed off (still seems mad writing that), 2019 was at MK and then we lost the last 2 springs due to covid. So it was good to get back here for only the 3rd time in 6.
The best team on paper looked quality, and had a good chance to qualify, but as is life with these things, some of the top guys dropped away, and I was upgraded from probably mid short leg, to 2nd seed long leg!
Like I said to a few people, with all due respect to me, if I'm that status, you have no chance in this level of event
However, we had a good set of lads, determined to all be there for the majority of the day this time, with the exception of our leg 1 runner, with his wife, 3 kids and extended family, being a fair excuse to slip out a few legs in.
1hr 15 or so drive on the 3 motorway route, M40-M25-M1 route, and easy parking round the corner in a huge industrial estate carpark.
1km walk to the start to see our lads had cranked up an impressive set up of tent, and seating.
I was due up 5th, which suited me perfectly, as leg 1 is an insane storm off, and leg 3 probably isn't much better.
The later legs are a tough gig, as the fast teams have finished, the women have finished, so you can have a bleak lonely one, having had to watch numerous team mates come in, then start relaxing, while you're sat there nervous and cold.
Yes cold, the 15 degrees forecast that had some of us bringing sun cream looked a bit off!!
Our first guy, currently in good form, with a 1630 solo 5k time trial, and winning a couple of the TVXC xc came back 31st, of what could only have been about 42 teams? Seemed a bit down from the 2019 edition where I thought about 55 teams started, albeit ending with 40-42 counting teams.
I've got in a 1.5mile warm up, and 1.30 for leg 5 is closing in and it's almost time.
The field is quite drawn out, I'm told Reading are 2mins ahead, although there is a guy behind me about 6 or 7 seconds worth, which is just what you don't want
The course starts with a 100m or so on the track, before a slight dip out of the track set up, twisting round a couple of gates, and then a left with a slight incline.
Right hand turn along, and then you're tight left under an underpass, and then begin a reasonable climb to 1km and beyond.
There's a few other inclines and tight turns to beware of, with a lot of the footing bitty rutty stuff, but not so bad I couldn't wheel the Next out.
The one bit you have to take massive care on is at about 2.3miles, which is the long leg / short leg split.
The superb bit of the course is after the short leg split off, you have this lovely straight, then it's a slight down a path next to the track, a slight climb into the track, then that lovely smooth finish.
Milked it by monstering past a lady late doors that I had thought was too far ahead. That's track stuff for you - distances evaporate!
The short leg was probably slightly under 5k, the long leg had been whopped up to 5.35miles or so this year.
I'm on long, so I stay left first lap.
A strange experience really. Overtaking about 6 women, lost us 1 place to the guy who started a few seconds behind, and probably about 8 guys from the fast teams, who are on the leg ahead, ie the short leg romp by.
Faster runners doing almost half the distance gives you no chance of keeping up!
A lot of the time I look at my watch it suggests 6.00 pace, which plays with my head a bit, but then the below splits come out and show that must have been the wrong time I lookeed!
Put a 5.40 mile in for the 60 feet incline first mile, then settled out at 5.51, 5.53, 5.51, then a 5.43 back, and bits for the last 1/3mile.
5.46 average pace, when it was 5.45 at Eastleigh 10k
Slightly less distance, but definitely a harder course, so pretty pleased with that.
Rest of the day was reveling in the team banter, cheering each other on, and enjoying quite a rare bit of stress free time around an event.
Usually it's turn up, nervy, race, bit of chat after, and everyone's off sharp.
This was literally 11/12 of us there right to the bitter end.
No idea where we actually came, as the results are a bit of a mess at the moment while they sort the mass start times out...Foster did 17.02 or so for his almost 5k, but is in the results as 1hr 15 for example!
Not sure where we finally sat v Reading, may have slightly pipped them, but we'll have to see.
Most likely probably about 35-38th out of maybe 40-42? Hard to say, as teams have incomplete runners etc.
Me and two guys from the team did a 5.5mile run after we'd all packed up to make it a 12.5mile day, as the only "down" side as such of the day is losing the Sunday mileage, without necessarily having the pure race you'd have in say last week's 10k. However, the extra miles took care of that.
Hour 20 drive home (!) as the sat nav not only took me the cross country Aylesbury type route back, but also was taking me through some little villages for the scenery, or something.
However, on the way back it's not such a problem. Just a long day.
I picked up a niggle last Tuesday after Eastleigh so didn't run for three days. Wednesday was a double bike day, Thursday a complete rest day and Friday I cycled to Bristol. My dad has a pub there which my brother runs and being my brother's birthday, we went down to spend the weekend there. I took Friday off though and went ahead a day earlier so I could cycle there via the Kennet and Avon canal towpath. Glorious weather made for a lovely day out on the bike. Took it easy stopping for cream tea etc and the 109 miles took 8 hours. Managed a couple of slow 8 milers Saturday/Sunday around Clifton with the leg feeling ok during but a tad sore after.
So despite an injury and a a rest day and thanks mainly to a long 8 hour ride, I managed a decent volume for the week. Running was down though with only 30 miles. I am supposed to be racing Reading half this weekend so hopefully the niggle is behind me as it would be a huge bonus if I can get that London champs time of 72:29 and save having to run a summer marathon for a GFA!
Hope that niggle disappears Reg, although your niggles at least seem to go quicker than a lot of the threads.
I kept looking at the Reading half, and while it'd be "nice" to do a double HM header, and have a go at skimping time off the first one, in reality I like a proper build to one, and it wouldn't be, it'd have been casually done.
Plenty of races ahead, so no need for that.
Firstly Saturday morning ran round parkrun with the boy up at Dunstable. Felt really good actually, chomping at the bit to storm round the 2nd half!
Yesterday was ok - Good to catch up with SG, shame I didn't see you TT, but obviously not sure what you look like, we were close to Reading (our Herne Hill flag was close). I did also see Dachs, but he had gone when I went to have a word sadly..
Weather was a bit cloudy and cold - good running weather though. Think I went out quite hard - and the first K isn't the easiest and got 3.18 for it. Felt a bit out of breath quite quickly, no time for a settling down period really. It was 3.19 for the 2nd K and then 3.20 for the 3rd K. It did feel quite hard and the 4th K is quite twisty and a new bit of the course because we weren't allowed to go across a busy road due to the Macdonalds and Costa that had been built there..the irony. There is a slight drag up to the long/short course split....So that was a slow 3.27
Then the nice downhill path along the side of the track, around and the 300m on the track. Got 16.25, garmin saying 4.93k. Solid enough - but looking to try and take 30 secs off that during the next few months. Takumi Sen's felt decent.
Our 11th leg runner didn't have his chip, so we dropped to 37th on the results, apparently they will be sorted later today. We were 19th before the cock up. Should mean I get to sample the delights of Sutton Pk again..Doh
I smells me a DQ there Simon..now if we can just find another 9 teams to get DQ we'd qualify too
After our infamous 3 laps guy in 2019, apparently one lady managed to do the same this year. Must have been miserable.
Although I suppose it's easier if you don't suffer because of it. Swings & roundabouts, the organisers will have to make it plain at the start.