Sub 3h15

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  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    If you guys want to practice marathons with a down hill start, and a hill towards the end, consider Loch Ness. It’s a cracker!
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    Definitely a few similarities to Boston there Big_G - for some reason I always thought Loch Ness marathon was flat.

    Good report OO.  For my Boston prep in 2019, I ran the long runs on a similar course profile to Boston with some faster miles in the last 5 miles (usually on the flat or downhill sections).   I also ran the mid-week 15 milers on an undulating course and ran the downhills at tempo pace.  These runs were probably the most beneficial in preparing my quads for the course. 

    How did you find the Scream Tunnel?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    OO-You still finished 63rd in your age group in a major so a great run.
    I also ran Monday and my legs are ruined,I loved the whole experience,I hit 3:14:40 which is about where I thought I'd be,it feels like a decent charge to sub 3 in Chicago could be on the agenda with a decent summer training.
  • VTrunnerVTrunner ✭✭✭
    OO, well done in Boston. In a strange twist of circumstance, I was on a walking tour of the North End with my family when you were running. You are right that the weather was really nice. I saw a bunch of runners trickle in for pasta (for those who haven't visited, the Norh End is like Little Italy of Boston). I ran Boston in 2016 and despite training fast on up an downhills (probaly not nearly enough) I had the same deal. Felt great all the way through Heartbreak, then found I had no gear that my legs could shift to (despite good lungs/HR). So frustratign as you say you are running downhill and not able to move it move it! But I hope you met lots of fun folks and had a nice time in Boston. My in laws live there and we were in town for Easter.
  • VTrunnerVTrunner ✭✭✭
    BTW, long time since I've posted. I'm still not running regularly. Very frustrating time. Had to stop running end of August due to plantar fasciitis in right foot. This then moved also into the left foot. Restart in December led to relapse. Restart in March was really going well until my right knee locked up (not sure if upper calf issues or maybe Baker's cyst, etc). I think I ran differently due to the PF and it messed with my knee. So will see how it goes and ride my bike now that the snow is maybe finally over (we just got pounded on Tuesday again!). 

    Hope everyone is doign well!
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Good to see you on here again, VTr. Hopefully the injuries clear for you to get some solid training in.

    Enjoying the tales of Bostons past. Mine was in 2017. At the time my PB was 3.09 and I was in form to beat it. However we were sent emails the night before warning us of hot conditions. It as over 20 degrees at the start in Hopkinton, so a PB was extremely unlikely.

    I did do some hill training for the event but it was not enough. I remember not going too hard on the downhill early miles as I'd researched the course a lot. Newton hills was mad, so many casualties to the heat. I had nothing left for the final 6 miles but ended up pleased with a 3.19, it was one just to get round, get the medal and get a beer! TV reported over 2500 were attended to by medical workers, many scooped up at the finish.

    If it was good conditions, I fear my story would have been the same as many this year, I would do more quad bashing sessions if I did it again. Fascinating event.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited April 21
    I think quite a few marathons in USA have this kind of profile, don't they?  I remembered that Malta Marathon was my PB course for a few years, and that has similarities as well.  I suppose it is generally because these courses are point-to-point that this happens (Loch Ness, Boston and Malta are all point to point)?


    I have done a point-to-point trail marathon (City to Sea), where there is a very nasty sting in the tail.  Not a PB course :)  

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    edited April 21
    Good to hear from you VTR and hope you are on the mend. I could hear the scream tunnel from a mile away SBD. It was a high point in the race though mine were only air kisses not physical ones. 
    Boston is expensive for hotels DT. Even booking now for next year you'll do well to go under £200 per night in the city centre. We stayed at the airport which was cheaper but I really wouldn't recommend it. The train stops short of the airport which means a bus full of travellers with suitcases every time you do the short hop between station and airport. Best if you can find a buddy to share, as many rooms have 2 double beds. Flights are OK. Mine was c£500 including transfers up to Newcastle from Heathrow.
    Well done Ian glad you got a good one and a platform for Chicago.
    I'll try Chicago next year leaving just Tokyo to get my major 6 star medal. Boston is special and definitely needs to be in the bucket list DT. With your coach and your dedication I'm sure you'd do well. 
    I'm still groggy but will try a run tonight to get the legs moving. I've also gained about 2kgs on the trip which I need to shift itself.... 🤭
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Vt, that's a shame regarding your current struggles. Pf seems a bugger to shift for many. 

    Oo, thanks for that, interesting. I'd quite like Boston to be my last one of the 6 majors as it just has that iconic thing about it, though like many that'll probably be Tokyo, unless of course I can run sub 2.45 in Berlin. 

    8m easy yesterday then a sports massage this morning followed with 10m at low tempo over lunch which I decided to run at first half planned mara pace of 6.25. A very comfortable effort, often in the face of a stiff wind. Most miles landed within a second either side of 6 25 and average pace was bang on 6.25 for 154bpm. 

    Feel largely untouched by that now which is pleasing. Interestingly I did 3m at 6.24mm for 152bpm the Wednesday before Manchester so some progress there I think. 

    Used it as a full kit test inc my new box fresh alphaflys. Garmin told me I was peaking afterwards.

    Really feel like it's all suddenly come together this week. 

    Easy 15m Sunday then it's 8 days of cotton wool. 
  • VTrunnerVTrunner ✭✭✭
    GDawg, I can relate to your Boston experience. It was 75 F and full sun at the start when I did it. I deliberately went out slower and still had bashed quads. I was in my best shape ever that year and probably would have gone way too hard in cool conditions. Ouch thinking about it.

    BTW, MsE, I bought that book you recommended (Older Yet Faster) and the foot exercises were really helpful for my recovery. I do her foot routine every day. Super flexbile and strong feet now! Thanks!!
  • VTrunnerVTrunner ✭✭✭
    I also ended up in the Medical tent for about 20 minutes the year I ran. The EMT looked me and a few other trashed souls and gave us all names. I was "Salty." Apparently my face and arms were covered in salt crystals. I was told to drink and get some electrolytes. Which of course did the trick.  ;)
  • VTR - sorry to hear about your ongoing injuries. Always amazing to hear about the weather in your neck of the woods - definitely fancy a trip out there some day.

    OO - your struggle at Boston was still not as spectacular as my detonation in the last few miles!! As you say, it's easy to underestimate the pounding the quads get running downhill for a concerted period of time. Think you missed a trick with only air kisses though!  ;)

    DT - when I did Boston in 2019, MrsL and I stayed in an Airbnb a little bit out of the centre and it worked out at about £120 / night for 4 nights. As long as you're pretty close to a metro stop, it's very easy to get into the centre.

    After my disappointment at Manchester, I felt compelled to enter another marathon quickly and hope I got the balance between recovery and maintaining fitness right. So yesterday I did the Dorney Lake marathon, a very flat course consisting of multiple laps of the Olympic rowing lake. Conditions were pretty good, with just a few stretches with moderate headwind/crosswind.

    I was aiming to get at least under 3:15 to put me in the mix for a GFA place and improve on the time from last year's Yorkshire marathon. With some company despite the small field, I managed the first of the four laps in 47:34 followed by a 47:21 to get to halfway in about 1:35 - so far, so good.

    Had a bit of drift on the third lap to 48:14 but I'd definitely managed nutrition and hydration better than at Manchester so was still hopeful going into the final lap. Invariably it was still tough but unlike Manchester I managed to keep the final few miles around the 7:50 mark to end with a 3:14:00 result which definitely feels like redemption, especially as it's my highest ever WAVA score for a marathon.

    I have to say that I felt more knackered at the end of this one than at Manchester and for only the second time post marathon had a vomiting spell - I was in the car at the time but fortunately a) hadn't started the journey back home and b) managed to open the door in time!!

    Next stop is an assault on the Yorkshire 3 Peaks (walking, not running) next weekend, followed by an attempt to run round London visiting all the Monopoly spaces a bit later in May.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Great stuff, Lorenzo. Plenty of scope for that yo have backfired on you but appears you got your redemption.

    Hopefully that'll get you into London. 

    Some interesting summer plans there. 

    Very easy bouncy 15m yesterday at 7.33mm. Ended up with 68m last week due to my easter long run happening Monday. 

    Taper becomes fairly aggressive this week. Early forecast looks perfect and the few days before and after it look just as good so hopefully it'll stay that way. 

    5m recovery run pending over lunch. 
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    As I used to say to my kids Lorenzo, better out than in. I saw on Strava and what a great run you had 👏
    Enjoy the taper DT the signs are all good.
    After an easy week back to it with a run and swim today. Boston has taken a lot of recovery. My quads and glutes still complaining 😪

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Well done lorenzo, i tend to meet pukie at the end of marathons now. I think its a mixture of increasing effort on top of a stomach that can no longer digest gels due to the increasing effort.

    Well done DT, you're in good shape.

    1.24.58 at worthing seafront yday. 2 lapper in howling winds, not sure how much the wind cost me but i pushed on on 2nd lap and ran strongly, 33rd out of 950ish. Hopefully the lurgy from Brighton 2 wks ago is on the retreat, and im heading sub3 shape for kempton in 5 weeks.
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    Just stopping to say hi and wish congrats to everyone. 

    VTr - Sorry to hear about your long term injury woes. Hey and thanks for asking after me the last time too. I’ve been very slack on here. I’ve had an issue with pf for 7 months now. It’s the worst ever, I hope you heel yourself soon. 

    OO - as said elsewhere, great run in Boston. Those hills must be tough.You usually finish so strong in most marathons (I’ve witnessed that myself in person when you left me for dead at 20 miles and recorded a big negative split). Happy memories. 

    Lorenzo - I’m made up for you, 1:35/1:39 is a very good score. What was your WAVA?

    TR - that must have been a pleasing outcome. Sub 3 form for sure. Glad for you after a bad run of luck with weather and Illness. 

    Ian - excellent result for your marathon too! 

    DT - looking forward to seeing the outcome of your next race. Your training and general mental attitude bodes well. Great to see your progress. 

    Speedy - congratulations on the record. You’re in the form of your life. You ought to try Jersey marathon I’d you’re ever stuck for an autumn one. You’d probably win a cash prize to cover your costs. There’s quite a big vegan presence in the island too and a good few guys I know in the running community. 

    SBD - sorry to hear about your injury woes. Sounds like you’re working on your recovery. Have you got a race to aim for? 

    Gul - I was surprised to hear that you completely stopped running and not because of injury. Did you miss it at all? 

    G-Dawg - how are you doing now. You seem to have been unlucky with various bugs and what not. 

    Jools - good to see you adopting a very sensible approach on the road to your return to good health and running, 

    I often think about you all and others who don’t tend to post anymore. So just wanna say hi to you all too!  MsE, Birch, Badbark, Leslie, Poacher, PMJ to name a few. 

    I’ve been injured for about 7 months now. It’s not been fun. I’m trying to get fit again and healthy but it’s going to take a while. I’ll keep trying …




  • GM - good to see you on here. Judging by Strava, you've still been able to get out for a few runs though haven't you? In answer to your question, I think that it was just over 73%. Not as good as my WAVA rating for a recent half or 5K, not as impressive as some of the 80%+ ratings by folks on here, but still pleasing to know that my speed isn't decreasing as fast as my age is heading in the opposite direction!

    TR - thanks. I tested flapjacks for en route nutrition in a couple of recent marathons, but found that they were quite difficult to get out of the flipbelt with cold hands, and I also struggled to digest them so went back to the Isogels. I didn't seem to get a reaction during the race (which is why I'd moved away from them previously) but they may well have come back with a vengeance!! Sounds like you're in good shape for Kempton.

    Gentle 4 mile recovery run today, listening to a podcast on French presidents since de Gaulle :open_mouth:


  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    cheers, Gerard - I still lurk;  hope you get back in the swing soon !   

    299 plod miles so far this year for me, to show where I'm at - back in the mara training days, first week or two in Feb would have seen that mark achieved!  
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Great to see you post again, GM. Hope the PF clears soon.

    Congrats on the Dorney run, Lorenzo. That's a fine effort after Manchester just 3 weeks before. 
    I've had 2 weeks of nothing and now doing a reverse taper. After the slow 11 miler on Saturday, I noticed my HR was 10 BPM higher than quicker runs of similar distance from a few weeks ago, up there with my HM PB at Wokingham. The HR was also elevated for Manchester, I clearly wasn't right.

    Feeling better now and resting HR is regularly low 40s again.
    Concentrating on shorter faster stuff over the next few weeks.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Hi Gérard, hope the injury subsides and you can get back on it. 

    Easy 8m yesterday. Off for 4 x 1m a bit faster than mp shortly. My pace v hr on my last two runs for the routes were pretty much the best they have ever been. Forecast for Monday currently looks perfect, 11c, Cloudy and 5mph breeze. 

    Pretty much racing weight this morning and my rhr on the fitbit assessment is about 8 lower than Manchester and lowest it's ever been (45- hitting 38/39 through the night). So on paper everything is with me as it stands. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Run went very well, I bizarrely found myself working harder to pull the pace back than hit the pace, reps came in 6.08, 6.08, 6.07 and 6.05. Covered about 4.75m at 6.27mm at 149 bpm. 

    Went over the gym this evening and did spin but on low gears to flush legs out. 
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    edited April 29
    Looking in great shape for Monday DT and ideal conditions as well.  Good luck.

    Good to hear from Gerard - hope you can slay the PF dragon.  I'm hoping I get back in shape for Berlin in September.

    Well done on the Dorney time Lorenzo - great WAVA and hopefully that gets you the GFA for 2023.

    Hope you can shake off the PF as well VT but enjoy the cycling for now.

    Hopefully the rest and S&C work have done you good G-D.

    A good result at Worthing TR.

    Hope the quads have now recovered OO - a least Chicago won't be as challenging!

    Have managed to run for the last 15 days, so hopefully on the road to recovery.  Slight niggle with the right knee but I'm hoping it will fade as I continue to build the mileage.  Should do c. 55 miles this week.  Feeling very slow and unfit and carrying a few extras Kgs, so it's going to be a slow build for Berlin.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Good to see you getting back to it SBD, plenty of time to build fitness.

    Go well DT.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    2.50.23 today. Sub 2.45 was never on, felt awful at 84.10 for halfway but somehow kept ticking the miles off and getting faster. By mile 24 I’d done the maths and was on for a high 2.46 low 2.47 then disaster struck and a Marshall not paying attention allowed myself and another to run straight passed him down a hill. We then had to run back up the hill to find our way back and added about 800m or 3 ish minutes which obviously meant my pb had gone. This killed my ambition. Managed to claw back the 3 of the 4 places I lost though and finished 17th. 

    Hugely frustrated. Course was really hard work as well with a ridiculous amount of twisting and turning on the redways and little climbs and some gravel surfaces and other rough surfaces played hell with the alphafly. No opportunity to just settle and cruise at a pace. When I did I was settling at 6.15.

    we live and learn I guess. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Ooh that's a shame DT. MK seemed a good option after your injury. Fantastic to have got yourself in great shape so close to Manchester, but a real shame that error occurred. I guess marshalls are volunteers but they need to pay attention as folks put so much in to marathon prep. Be proud of where you are now.......makes me worry a bit for kempton as theres tons of corners zig zagging about there on the course they have come up with.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    Bad luck on the detour DT - that must have been very frustrating.  Were there no signs indicating the turn or was it just down to the marshal's directions?  Still a good time given the detour and the tricky course.  I have bad memories of the HM I ran at MK a few years back which probably shared some of the marathon route.

    I noticed a familiar name won the V40 category and the third place V55 was not that quick!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I don’t know how me and the other lad missed the turn, unless the Marshall had ducked away. It only cost me 1 place though. I guess I was just knackered, head down and working. 

    yes I recognised the name of the v40 winner. I was 7th v40, they haven’t broken it down to 5 year cats but I’ve looked on po10 and Im 3rd v45 as far as I can see. 

    I’ll have a look at first v55 in a bit.

    Tr, these turns were really tricky, 45 degree at times. My memory of of kempton were you were more running around bends so wasn’t so bad. 
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Unlucky on the detour there, DT. That must have been so demoralising. Congrsts on delivering a great result nonetheless. 

    With your injury trouble and diligent rehab, I'd say the big picture is one of great success. Being able to talk about not quite hitting the markers you set yourself and having to settle for a still outstanding time can't be too bad. Plenty more to come from you, Sir. Well done!

    Slow stuff from me over the weekend with a 12 on the road Saturday and 5 on the trails yesterday. Still got some hammy issues but I can definitely feel the strength work kicking in, particularly in the glutes. Did more today, the habit is formed!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited May 2
    DT - the other lad mentioned he got sent wrong twice on fetch. Take a look at the kempton run fest course sometime and see what you think. Your fitness bodes well for autumn.

    I remember racejase, looks like he is getting back to it.
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