Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie G said:
    With one of our guys having done the Thames 100miler yesterday, and with many of us popping along to cheer him on at places, (I managed to catch him just, at the Spade Oak road down to the Thames, Gossmore Park and Higginson Park). 
    They really need to sort out the naming of these events. 

    This race was the Thames Path 100 and is a 100 miles, non-stop. The winner was a gnat's dick inside 14 hours, second just inside 16 hours (so a mere 2 hour winning margin) and there is a 28 hour cut-off time to be counted as a finisher. Even allowing for sex and age, that is a pretty generous 2x margin.

    I'd say if you do that, even with that margin, it is an achievement. 

    However, I was watching the Sewing Bee (yes, I know) and there is a "running coach" on there who has "run a 100km ultra" and when you google a bit, it turns out he has completed the London to Brighton Challenge so that is 56km one day and 44km the next day. There is also a 4x4x48 challenge making the social media rounds which is a watered down version of a backyard ultra (100 miles in 24 hours but you have to do 1/24th of the 100 miles each hour) so 4 miles each 4 hours for 48 hours (so a total of 48 miles over 2 days)


  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Good race SG - Bet that was fun last night, holding out for that long..makes you wonder why we do it when you are hanging on away from home! Although which makes you more nervous - WW or United?

    Reggie - Only field event helping tales yesterday at the youth meeting my lad was competing in, fetching javelins, sorting relay changes, etc ;) Important stuff you know.

    Quiet weekend - slightly hungover after the club dinner Friday night, so just did 9 miles Saturday lunchtime. Did 30 x 200 on a measured bit on a field behind the Bedford track before the youth meeting yesterday..
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I've never done an ultra, my longest run is a marathon. I did Endure a few years back but that was 9, 5 mile runs, not a 45 mile run. It's got to be continuous to count. Surely 24 hours is the obvious cut-off? 
  • Reg Wand said:
    I've never done an ultra, my longest run is a marathon. I did Endure a few years back but that was 9, 5 mile runs, not a 45 mile run. It's got to be continuous to count. Surely 24 hours is the obvious cut-off? 
    I'd say things like Endure don't count as they are definitely not continuous. If you have a 5-minute toilet break every now and again I'd say that is fine, even 10 or 15 minutes for a meal at a checkpoint if you are going for 24 hours is OK, but that is it. I'd say if you look at e.g. Dean Karnazes who ran 350 miles in 80 hours (so 105 miles every 24 hours)  then you can go beyond 24 hours but I'd say it is pretty unsafe to do so. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    SC, if that was an every week experience it'd be a nightmare. But in the context a perfectly expected way to pan out. Last 15mins was horrific stuff.

    MK at a real crossroads now, fair few players on loan or will be off.
    Some bitters afterwards were smugly telling me we had "no" chance in the final. Pretty dense when we've just beaten them, who had finished 3rd, and have taken 4 points off Wednesday this season, and drawn 1 v Sunderland too.
    Whoever wins that game is the favourite though for sure and will out number us at least 2 to 1.


    Phil - a fb pal of mine has been posting "100km" talk, and I thought wow. But then it pans out it's 100k in...a month!!
    Still, slightly different interests and category to us lot.

    Clearly a 100miler is a mental achievement whatever pace it's done at. But yes, most likely it has to be continuous, bar the odd little break.
    Our guy is a real experienced long distance guy, and he crept in 23:30, and was down to 22-25min miling grimitude late doors.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    ps SC, I never worry too much for United. If it's a "disaster" coming 6th or 7th in the country, it's a different boat to Wycombe's "disaster" which was almost recognised about 8 years ago, almost sinking into non league and potentially going bust!

    Losing a dead rubber to Brighton with half the team and manager off isn't great, but no real consequence.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Reg Wand said:
    I've never done an ultra, my longest run is a marathon. I did Endure a few years back but that was 9, 5 mile runs, not a 45 mile run. It's got to be continuous to count. Surely 24 hours is the obvious cut-off? 
    I'd say things like Endure don't count as they are definitely not continuous. If you have a 5-minute toilet break every now and again I'd say that is fine, even 10 or 15 minutes for a meal at a checkpoint if you are going for 24 hours is OK, but that is it. I'd say if you look at e.g. Dean Karnazes who ran 350 miles in 80 hours (so 105 miles every 24 hours)  then you can go beyond 24 hours but I'd say it is pretty unsafe to do so. 
    John Kelly has just broken the Wainwrights record by a whopping 11 hours - that's 320M in 5 days and 12 hours. A lot slower than Dean K's 250miles, but to be fair, does include 214 fells covering 118,000 feet of climbing :smiley:

    Not sure how much rest time that included, but can't be a lot!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    ps SC, I never worry too much for United. If it's a "disaster" coming 6th or 7th in the country, it's a different boat to Wycombe's "disaster" which was almost recognised about 8 years ago, almost sinking into non league and potentially going bust!

    Losing a dead rubber to Brighton with half the team and manager off isn't great, but no real consequence.
    I'd agree that it's not a disaster and it irks me the way ex-players talk with such entitlement about this team being an embarrassment or players not being good enough. They do have terrible owners though and there doesn't seem much chance of that changing. My worst nightmare would be if they sold it to Jim Ratcliffe, he'd turn that place around.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    It's all about fusing the right manager with the right players. Simple game this football lark.
  • The Bus said:

    John Kelly has just broken the Wainwrights record by a whopping 11 hours - that's 320M in 5 days and 12 hours. A lot slower than Dean K's 250miles, but to be fair, does include 214 fells covering 118,000 feet of climbing :smiley:

    Not sure how much rest time that included, but can't be a lot!
    Has to be enough to be safe. It is one thing running on the flat on a good surface and getting so tired you are  delusional but off-road on a mountainous footpath you need some of your wits remaining: sunset is about 9pm and sunrise about 5am so I'd expect most of that is refuel, repair and rest, 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    The women's winner from the Marlow 5 was Anna Boniface. Have heard that name before, so had a quick look at her po10,

    Looks like her first 5miler,  22 seconds behind me in 28:52.

    Very similar last 10miler 58:50 in October, to my 58:57 in Maidenhead.
    Very similar last HM, 77:59 in November, to my 77:54 in Feb.

    But has a 35:20 10k in December, to my 35:46 in March.
    My times a few months more recent.

    That 10k was Telford, which I was amazed to see was only good enough for 245th! 

    I haven't looked up Leeds, but that's got to be the highest quality 10k in the country?
    Eastleigh, my time 26secs slower was 108th, which I suspect was quite deep in the field for what Eastleigh usually is too!


    On another note 5:42 pace on Sunday for a 5miler, so for a 5k that would be 17:46 just running the same pace.
    You'd assume 20secs or so is doable off that, so potentially in the 17:20-17:30 sort of mixer straight away, before dipping down to just 5k training?
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    The women's winner from the Marlow 5 was Anna Boniface. Have heard that name before, so had a quick look at her po10,

    Looks like her first 5miler,  22 seconds behind me in 28:52.

    Very similar last 10miler 58:50 in October, to my 58:57 in Maidenhead.
    Very similar last HM, 77:59 in November, to my 77:54 in Feb.

    But has a 35:20 10k in December, to my 35:46 in March.
    My times a few months more recent.


    Her mum lives around the corner from me is a member of TVT and does sport massages, I saw her a couple of times so we chatted about her. Anna did some Zwift riding with us for a while, I think she was mainly coming back from injury and cross training. She had a really good spell culminating in a 2:37 marathon at London before that, qualifying for England but she got injured either during or around the time of the representative marathon in Canada as she DNF'd there. 

    I woke up at 4:30 am this morning, bloody birds. Went for a run and got to scare them all off the roads as my revenge.




  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    2.37.07 is quite something!
    "Only" off a 1.16.35 half as well, that's an exceptional transition.

    x2 + 4mins!
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    Reg - Anna had a stress fracture IIRC. She wrote a very open piece about the cause somewhere. If I can find it I'll post it. Impressive volume of training!

    SG - the 2:37:07 at London was a champs/mass start victory I believe. That kind of conversion is not massively unusual if you're more suited to marathoning - my best was x2 + 3:28 (if you don't count the year where I ran back to back HM sb' ;) ). Re: track vs road, I think it depends on the person. I've always done best with a mix of both.

    Reg/SG - players not being good enough is the fault of the manager (or whoever is buying them for us this week). Not trying is the fault of the players and that's where a lot of Utd's problems lie imo. Putting in effort should be the minimum expected of any of them.

    Had a 5/11 double in the bag by midday yesterday. Saw the chiropractor who had a lot to do. Still tight this morning but figured I should probably start doing loosening exercises and stretches instead of complaining about being stiff and tight (!) and went much better this afternoon, meaning with a 6/10 double today I've started this week a lot better than last!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    That’s some training volume TT.
    Makes my 4.2/4.9 seem pretty meagre fare 😆
    The former was my lunchtime XC club. It’s the last week for Y11 so a bunch of the rugby lads came out for one last run up the hill. They’ve all been bulking up so found the climb hard but fair play they all made it to the top: Over 700’ climbed in the 4M. This evening was club track night: 400m paarlauf session. Did 12 reps averaging 89” - my partner pulled an 80” rep on the 7th & then eased back to 85”s. Thought I was just getting tired from the earlier reps 😆
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    SG - Nothing worse than hanging on for a win. I think Sunderland might do it this time though. United are a mess, lots for the new manager to do. 

    Ultras - Just not too many breaks, otherwise it's just a hike, not a race.  Good session Jools.

    Really tired on Monday, just a school run 4, then a 10k in the evening. Just managed some 400m reps around the park near work yesterday. Ten of them in the end.

    Will try and do something later today.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    SC A blank canvas!

    The press have it written for the L1 final either way. Sunderland win, return of a "grand" old club to a more sensible level after years of hardship etc.
    Wycombe win, final game for Bayo, return to the division we were cheated out of by Derby's financial doping etc. Underdog etc etc
  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭
    Jooligan - I need miles to get in any kind of decent shape - I've tried lower mileage/higher intensity and it just doesn't work for me (unfortunately!). Nice day's work from you!

    Reg (and any others interested) - that Anna Boniface article I mentioned.

    Track yesterday for me. Just starting to get my head into training properly again and wanted the confidence of completing a session as planned for a change as well so chose a 'starter' session to get the ball rolling. 800 (2:36), 1200 (3:57), 1600 (5:24), 2000 (6:46 - 3:27/3:19 split). I then put my spikes on for 2 x 200m (34, 32) as a bonus. Given that the last time I wore spikes on a track was almost 30 years ago it felt weird (but was fun).
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Good article TT, assume her mileage was getting into for what most of us would label extreme, triple digits etc.

    3 days easy after Marlow 5, and Windle pairs relays tonight. Not bothering to run before then, as back in the office today, so the overall context just makes sense not to.
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    TT - Good to see you doing some 'athletics' ;) Yes off to Luton to get beasted tonight no doubt.

    SG - I think Sunderland deserve to be up at Championship level tbh, will be a good watch anyway. Didn't Wycombe get in the play offs or promotion through the back door somehow a few years ago? what was that about? Can't remember.

    800m on Saturday in the Beds/Herts county champs. Checked the one runner out of the 5 of us I don't know and he's done 1.52. He'll win it by 80m at least I think!

    Then rush to Bedford train station to get to the smoke tsee the 10,000's at Highgate. First race at 3pm. Then try not to drink too much ;)
  • Stevie G said:

    You'd assume 20secs or so is doable off that, so potentially in the 17:20-17:30 sort of mixer straight away, before dipping down to just 5k training?
    You need to try some of this magical marathon training: 16×300m with 60 seconds recoveries at @ 1 mile pace 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    SC, the perception from our bitter rivals is we somehow cheated our way to the playoffs.
    The reality, is that it was a 23 team season, Bury having gone bust.
    We were in the play offs for the whole season until the last week of the season when due to Bury disappearing we didn't have a fixture.
    Therefore we were a game down and were suddenly just outside the playoffs...but in a division so tight we were I think  3 points off 2nd still.
    So while Points per game is technically how we got in, its anything but unfair. We still won 3 games in the playoffs after.

    Why do Sunderland deserve to be in the championship out of interest?
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    Phil  we can but chuckle. I think the end average pace showed how non close to being met the aim was!!

    Giving a recently injured v50 who is aiming at a marathon, a talented track specialist's schedule is certainly an interesting strategy.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    Phil  we can but chuckle. I think the end average pace showed how non close to being met the aim was!!

    Giving a recently injured v50 who is aiming at a marathon, a talented track specialist's schedule is certainly an interesting strategy.
    Presumably you’re discussing the clubmate (?) mentioned some while ago. Certainly doesn’t sound like any marathon training session I’ve seen elsewhere.
  • Stevie G said:
    Phil  we can but chuckle. I think the end average pace showed how non close to being met the aim was!!

    Giving a recently injured v50 who is aiming at a marathon, a talented track specialist's schedule is certainly an interesting strategy.
    Yes, it's a bit of a shame. The guy has his heart in the right place and is as helpful and nice as can and has had a heap of bad luck with injuries and family and everyone wants to give him a pat on the back and say "good on you son" but the evidence says if he betters 3:20 it would be a real outcome and he is pitching sub-3. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Yep Jools.
    Phil,  his real goals should be 1) put a consistent period of running in uninjured.


    Then 2) get to the start line and 3) get round at all.
    That'd be a superb set.

    Then and only then start talking times!
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    So good that you run the lunchtime track and hill sessions, Jools. What a way to get in some running at work. So what is a paarlauf session?

    TT - what a track session. That is some pace. And a hell of a gap in track spike wearing!


    Quick report from Monday night’s Berkeley 10k:

    The race attracts a solid crowd of local club runners - including quite a lot at the fast end. 19C and not too much wind, so solid enough conditions for a spring/summer evening race.

    Google says 45 minutes, so left it late to leave. 1805 departure for a 1930 start, and having to collect number etc. Stuck in the traffic, with everyone having to get off a junction early, so checked the emails to see if there was a delay in the start. Nope - and the start was actually 1915 😱. Some classic SG shenanigans this was turning into. 

    Eventually arrived at 1905 and thankfully the start was pushed back to 1930.

    Tried hard not to start too fast, and sat behind the leading lady for quite a while. Manual km splits started at 3:30 but varied wildly. Whilst my pacing wasn’t great, I am sure they can’t quite have been in the right place.

    A marshal was stood at 5k shouting splits (always like it when a race does this): 18:20. So faster than the track race last week, but felt ok. Then the fade began 😆. Overtaken a fair bit in the last 2k, and just couldn’t speed up to follow anyone, finishing in 38:02. No medal, t shirt etc, rather a choice of beers at the end. Perfect.

    Clearly better pacing required, but still an enjoyable outing. Writing this here to hold myself accountable: need to lose some timber! 

    12M including 40 minutes of min on min off yesterday along the canal. 

    And just entered the Dymock Half in 10 days which from memory is a lovely race on quiet undulating roads through the forested area. This on your radar, Jools?

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    Good work SQ, nothing quite like that stress of the eta ticking down and the race time looming large is there"

    Had a midweek turnout myself.

    Windle Valley pairs relay 5x1km (similar concept to the Paaulauf thing Jools mentioned basically).

    I started off leg A, matey does leg B, and you carry on until 5 legs each. Longer recoveries allow a bit more of a tasty lick than a usual reps sesh might.

    We'd suspected Foster & Lee from our club would boss it,  and that the glass ceiling would be 2nd.
    We discovered that was wildly optimistic last night, due to an absolutely stack of machines turning up - incredible for such a low key midweek relay when there's so many race options about currently!!

    I was in the office and didn't want to risk leaving the laptop in the boot of the car in some random street, albeit plus area. This ended a long evening I can tell you, as while Slough looks to be midway of Wycombe to Windle, the actual drive direct is only about 5mins further!


    The actual drive there took about an hour with traffic and suchlike. However, parking is easy, dump it on the curb right outside the park!

    Quite a sticky evening but got a couple of miles in. Bit of boobery managing to lose a pin and collect a new one 3mins before the start like a right amateur :D 

    The quality is ridiculously better than usual. Mr Foster who'd been targeting the win, jogged past saying the podium would be out of the question for them as they'd spotted some red hot ac types in the mixer.

    Off we go then, and it's basically a course of 2 halves. Totally offroad, first 100m or so on grass into some trailly woody stretch, slight downhill, a few roots to avoid, which are painted white for safety :) Have to be very careful on lap 1 though in the stampede!

    Just before half way to turn left at a tree before a nice little pond, and then you have the slight uphill on slightly "woodier" sort of footing, albeit firmish. Couple of stretches on that, before a very tight narrow turn into the field, and then a lovely 50m along a roped section, before diagonal sprint in to switch with partner.

    The start is mental. I'm probably in about 10th or so early doors, and it's very clear this will be the highest standard one of these events ever.
    I came 2nd with a partner in 2018 with 33:40, just before my sub 17 5ks, although I had done a slightly slower 5miler than I've just done this week.

    The slight incline eases a few people off so I take places back here, but am only handing over in 7th.
    I remember back to 2018 when i got handed over to in 6th or 7th. You never know if some have really gassed their first leg, or are handing over to perhaps a slower team member etc. Can all change etc.

    I "think" I saw 3.08 on the watch, but it's very hard to properly time on these, as you're more interested in a proper hand off.
    Therefore, I just left the watch ticking, and would see what could be gleaned after.

    Hard work on a warm evening on an offroad sharp 1km relay!
    My partner has had an injury spell this year so isn't as sharp as he could be, but he's still decent enough, but can tell he's finding it hard as well :D 

    A few battles with people on laps 2 and 3, but by lap 4 and 5 it's settled, and we see it in for
    7th in 34:12.

    That's not exactly hanging around, and we "think" my leg would have been in the 1645-50 sort of mixer, and him 1725-30, but again it is very hard to tell.

    Garmin said 17.17 for 3.17miles, but I suspect that's a moving time thing, rather than 1k reps thing.

    Winning team were mid 30s! Next 3 teams were mad fast as well, and even Foster n Lee were 33xx.

    We lost to a red hot ladies team too.

    No idea what made this event, with122 teams limit, such a local athletics meet for the night, but definitely a different experience!

    However, at the end of the day I think my reps were bang on current ability, and that's all you can go off.
    Good social with plenty of team mates after.

    Less great 40mins back to Slough to pick the laptop up, then 30+ mins home, but still worth it :)

    Unusual week for me, Sunday 5mile race, this race Thursday, then a 10k race Sunday coming.
    Will keep today light as 2 very short easy ones, not doing my usual Fri evening woods climb one, then a Saturday lazy day, and hopefully that leaves some beans for Sunday.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    That sounds great fun, SG. And a bloody hard vO2 session!
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    SC, the perception from our bitter rivals is we somehow cheated our way to the playoffs.
    The reality, is that it was a 23 team season, Bury having gone bust.
    We were in the play offs for the whole season until the last week of the season when due to Bury disappearing we didn't have a fixture.
    Therefore we were a game down and were suddenly just outside the playoffs...but in a division so tight we were I think  3 points off 2nd still.
    So while Points per game is technically how we got in, its anything but unfair. We still won 3 games in the playoffs after.

    Why do Sunderland deserve to be in the championship out of interest?
    Ah yes, thanks for the explanation on that. I'd prefer Sunderland to win personally - as I like their fans and they have suffered (in relative terms!) enough I think. BUT if Wycombe win they deserve to go up.

    Well run in the relay - interesting event and looked swift going on the times.

    SQ - Well run also! Thanks for the report too...

    8 x 800 on the grass last night as we had our annual 'kept off track by the late running Luton schools athletics meeting' night. Kept them to about 2.32's.

    Thought I'd add Bedford Parkrun to tomorrow's activities. Can't 'just' do an 800, will feel slovenly ;) 800 isn't until 12.30 anyway.
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