Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    One our mutual pals did a 12x400 (no need for you to name them!) the other day yet the total session mileage was something like 2.68miles.
    Not sure what happened there.
    It is not unusual for a track session to measure short: that is the one session he probably did as advertised, so 12 laps averaging 86 seconds a lap (just over 17 minutes) and 11 recoveries for 28 minutes total. What puzzles me is how he runs 13 miles in 1:40 (7:38 pace) but it takes him 2:07 elapsed, so he has got 27 minutes of recovery into that somehow. I can understand a few minutes for road crossings etc but not 27 and not in Windsor Great Park where there is not a lot of traffic. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24
    My track to watch experience is always long. I do wear my watch on the right wrist thought, and go anti clockwise.  

    I know there's one old garmin that measures short consistently though, although I doubt he has an old anything, as he's into his gear!

    Two possibilities on the big elapsed v moving time.
    One a simple case of taking photos, looking around the park!

    The other, what I accidentally did the other day - do a run, forget to save it for ages, then accidentally re-trigger it, and bang, you suddenly have something with a big non moving time!
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    Seems to be a bit of a cover-up going on, so e.g. AAT EVENTS LIMITED has filed for insolvency 6th June

    https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12762684/insolvency

    but if you look at their website they are still there and advertising the Guildford 10k

    https://aat-events.com/events/

    AAT events also includes F3 Events, the raceorganiser and PurplePatch and they are doing the same.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Could do with some little organogram / flowchart of which companies come under which umbrellas here.

    Knew the Race organiser had taken over Purple Patch , but had never heard of AAT events!

    Or that events like Maidenhead Half and Burnham HM are brands linked in with the above set too.

    Read a few things on a thread on fb about how the company Run through will take over management of the body of events affected, and Burnham HM organisers saying places booked are still valid.

  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    Could do with some little organogram / flowchart of which companies come under which umbrellas here.
    Agree. It is all very confusing nowadays. When I was much younger, races were mainly organised by clubs and the format was that you entered via post, a cheque and an SAE and a single volunteer opened the post, entered your details into a file (paper in the early days) and sent you race number back via the post. Come race day, everyone in the club turned up and helped out and the money was used to pay for medals, donations to people such as St Johns ambulance, whatever community had a hall with toilets etc and if there was anything other than a small surplus it tended to go to charity.

    Now people want chip timing, a t-shirt,online entry, toilets and so on and there are event organisers who can do that for you but the same people also put on full events themselves. It is then hard to distinguish if you are paying the fee to an agent or not. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Just seems a shame that some of these companies made it through the pandemic shut down, but then have to shut down when it's all been back fine for half a year!

    Although I suppose there were government propped up funds etc, and for a while these sort of companies had a bit of an advantage as they were the only events allowed!

    Will see what happens and how Runthrough take over if at all.


    13m today 7.21 sort of lick.

    62 mile week

    Couple of low key turn outs next weekend, so will take this week fairly easy with probably something very short like 4 or 5 x400m  on Tuesday for pace off long recoveries.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    Could do with some little organogram / flowchart of which companies come under which umbrellas here.
    Agree. It is all very confusing nowadays. When I was much younger, races were mainly organised by clubs and the format was that you entered via post, a cheque and an SAE and a single volunteer opened the post, entered your details into a file (paper in the early days) and sent you race number back via the post. Come race day, everyone in the club turned up and helped out and the money was used to pay for medals, donations to people such as St Johns ambulance, whatever community had a hall with toilets etc and if there was anything other than a small surplus it tended to go to charity.

    Now people want chip timing, a t-shirt,online entry, toilets and so on and there are event organisers who can do that for you but the same people also put on full events themselves. It is then hard to distinguish if you are paying the fee to an agent or not. 
    It’s also time consuming & people are so rushed they don’t have time to run events. People are also frightened of litigation so prefer to farm out the risk. It’s the same strategy used in all sorts of fields.
    Club 10K I’m organising is £7 advance or £10 on the day. No medals, tee-shirts or goody bags & gun to finish line timing but EoD or online, water at start, half-way & finish. Age Cat prizes of beers or biscuits. Start & finish in a pub with BBQ after.
     I’ve got 101 entries out of my 150 max already. The 30 volunteers required? All sorted 😃
    Cotswold Way Relay next weekend so did Somerdale Pavilion parkrun (19:39) then a recce of my leg to make 15M yesterday after Friday night on the 🍎 🍏 juice in Bath.
    Organised and accompanied another recce today Chipping Camden to Stanway House via Broadway Tower: 12.5M & 1500’ then biked 20M so a grand weekend.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    That's the best type of race Jools! Still a few of them around, even outside of fell-running circles! It's a shame that two of the best round here (Coombe Hill Race and Watlington 10k, both involving free beer) coincided with injury and Covid!

    Shame about the grass track SQ.

    Feeling almost back to full strength now, and looking forward to building the mileage back up.  I managed 30 miles last week, but nothing longer than 7 miles.  Had a bit of an epic paddle-board yesterday. We set off upstream from Marlow, but it was into a headwind so fierce we had to paddle kneeling down just to make any headway. It was also pretty choppy! We thought we'd probably do a couple of miles, but just kept battling through to the next lock each time. In the end we got as far as Hambleden lock, some 5.5M of mainly kneeling and then back downstream for 11.3M total. The upstream/into wind half took nearly two and a half hours, but the way back was almost an hour quicker :smile:

    I ran afterwards and that was pretty hard work but oddly satisfying! My quads today, after all that kneeling, feel like a ran a hard half yesterday! I'm also pretty sunburnt as hadn't realised how strong the sun was in the wind - rookie error!

    Sounds like Reg had a lucky escape yesterday! No doubt a full report to follow....


  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Brilliant weekend, Jools! CWR leg 1 really is a lovely route. 

    PMJ/SG - track sessions have always measured long on my watch, resulting in a very flattering looking pace. Re races - I am definitely happy with old school. The race Jools organises and describes is perfect. I have no need for a medal, but do enjoy quick access for a sociable drink after!

    The paddle boarding sounds great fun, but tough work, Bus. How do the locks work? Presumably climbing out and renter?

    That is a solid week, SG. Which turnouts are on the cards this week?


    Ticked over 60M for the week, with one interval session, one tempo and a ten mile ‘long’ run along the canal on Saturday. Very tired by the end of this, although briefly powered by the Ibiza classical orchestra dance tune thing blasting out of Worcester rugby club. 

    This is probably the longest I haven't run further than 13.1 in many years. Not bad to change the focus for a bit, but do wonder on the impact for any racing plans this autumn. 

  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Good stuff everyone.

    Had a crap weekend - well came first in the Marston Parkrun, steady start and just eased past a couple of youngsters at the start, then pressed pretty hard and came back in 16.59.

    So thought about what else I could do....decided on waiting 10 mins and doing the PR again. As usual, the first K of the second effort felt easier. I was planning to do about 20, but felt good slightly faster. Anyway, was coming up to 5k on the watch on 18.20, but couldn't see the end of the parkrun. The whole course is on a gravelly path, so I thought I had gone too far, so turned off onto rutted grass to stop my watch. Bad move...

    Straight away that sickening over on your ankle feeling. Lots of swearing from the pain and anguish from it being self inflicted. Hobbled back to the visitor centre, lump on my ankle already coming up.

    So - I can walk on it now, but got that classic bruise line below the ankle bone. So Watford definitely out, I'll probably run the 5k on Saturday, not eyeballs out though now. Been planning this week running wise for months. So annoyed with myself.


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    That's a real bastard Simon! Hopefully it will heal quickly, but those type of injuries always make you beat yourself up!

    I like the idea of "ticking over" at 60M SQ! It's now 8 weeks since I've done over ten miles, so going to be a struggle getting back to 14/15!

    And yes, with the locks it's called a "portage". Basically you hoist the paddle board out and carry it around the lock on the towpath.  Generally pretty straightforward on the Thames, as they have platforms that are not too high, and, with a bit of practice you can literally step on and off the board (which always impresses the gawpers!) but on the Grand Union and elsewhere there can be a whole variety of portages including traipsing through brambles, scrambling over banks etc.  The one I'm doing on the Avon in a couple of weeks only has two over 18 miles, but both involve some steep banks and difficulties getting back in the water!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Strong half mara that SQ. Your shorter racing and sessions will have kept you in good nick, but you will have to start building long runs soon if you're using your GFA. Im up to 16m, but hope to build on that.

    SG - do you have a cricket pitch in a park locally ? Would be a repeatable place to do sessions rather than a track. I just do any sessions or quicker stuff in my commutes, but the route is pretty lumpy.

    Simon - ouch. Keep icing it and the swelling might reduce quickly.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 27
    Bus - i meant to ask......how are the hammies and back shaping up to the paddleboarding?
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28
    TR, to be honest if I'm not at the track I don't worry too much about consistency on reps across town, as long as it "feels" the right effort and they look in or around what they should in the circumstances.

    SQ - Have a club mile race at the weekend

    Therefore, I went to the track for the first time in what must be months for a perfect re-introduction as it's one of those late 5k plan jobs that is super low volume, but sky high recoveries.

    5x400m off 3mins at 800 pace.

    It's one I've always thought might not actually be possible, but probably because I've never used the proper recovery stipulated.

    Today I did, and it went bang on ideally really.

    Couple of 70xx, and 3 low 71s.

    4.59 mile at Gosport on the road, so unless the track race is utter carnage with too many people and too much in lane 2, I'd imagine faster than that should be the definite aim.

    The chairman has cut the heat times a little oddly in my opinion.
    sub 6, sub 7, sub 8.30 and over 8.30

    I'd have gone 5.30, 6.30, 7.30 and over to be honest, as all you'll get is anyone 6.30 and below trying to cram into the fast race, meaning we'll probably have 20 in that one and it'll be utter bedlam :D 

    I'm almost tempted to go in the B race to get a free run at things.
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:

    I'd have gone 5.30, 6.30, 7.30 and over to be honest, as all you'll get is anyone 6.30 and below trying to cram into the fast race, meaning we'll probably have 20 in that one and it'll be utter bedlam :D 

    I'm almost tempted to go in the B race to get a free run at things.
    I agree: someone running 6:30 will be lapping at 97.5 seconds a lap so will be at 3 laps at the same time a sub-5 minute runner will be at 4 laps. There is nothing wrong with the bands if they are enforced. 

    Looks like a good session for you this morning, well inside the pace you need for the mile so proper speed work. I just noticed you do your laps from the 200m mark and not the start/finish that I use. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28
    Yours is probably the "official" start, as that's where I've seen Sam and Trev start from.
    I've just always started from what you call the 200m mark. Although one long departed poster once mocked me for suggesting there was such a point  :D

    I think it probably goes back to the Wycombe track which feels the equivalent position / facing direction and where you start feels like the other end.
    Probably mad logic but no real difference I'm sure. Would only be different if starting on 100 and 300 and starting on a straight I suppose.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Good reps SG. Ideal race prep for a 4:5x.
    Track session for me today: 8x600m off 200m jog. Paces were almost 2" slower than 12 days ago when I did 6x600m off 1' walk but I usually notice a significant difference in recovery between a 1' walking & a 1' jog. It was also blowing hard on the back straight & I was flying solo this time. 5K recovery on my local parkrun this evening rather than the club track session.
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    edited June 29
    Simon, how is the foot going? when I have done that sort of thing I have seen that after 24/48 hours of RICE then you generally have a good idea if it is a short-term thing that you can get through or i fit is more serious and needs to be treated with a bit more respect.

    SG, the track is indeed odd. You normally have a home straight and a back straight but the home end is on a curve and not a straight. I guess logically it would be best to start and finish halfway down a straight: I find the finish straight useful as it gives a goal to aim for over the last 100 but I don't like starting on a bend as it is harder to get the pace right on a bend, so maybe 50 m of straight to get up to sped and leave 50 m for a final push. 
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Simon, how is the foot going? when I have done that sort of thing I have seen that after 24/48 hours of RICE then you generally have a good idea if it is a short-term thing that you can get through or i fit is more serious and needs to be treated with a bit more respect.
    Hi PMJ - Well walking down the stairs earlier it felt normal, which is quite amazing as to not being able to put any weight on it at all on Sunday/early Monday. Bruising is amazing though. Black down the side under the ankle bone, some at the base of my toes and some on the inside of tbe bone. Then lots of yellow discoloration too, above the ankle bone, probably 3-4 inches above.

    So the 5k doesn't look on Saturday. Hey ho...
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Happy bidet Simon.
    New shed needed for the V50 pots methinks.

    When this little niggle has gone of course!!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Club track mile tomorrow then.

    For a bit of fun, do people want to guess what I'll run?

    Bit of context
    • 4.59 at Gosport road mile.
    • 4 heats, with the fastest billed as "sub 6", so could be crammed with anyone up to about 630 pace potentially making it a jammed in free for all?
    • Never done any track races beyond 3x3k, and a shiggles Sandhurst thing about 11 years ago consisting of a 60sec 400m and I think a 2.57 1km
    • Half an eye on the relay race the next day
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    SCoombes2 said:

    Bruising is amazing though. Black down the side under the ankle bone, some at the base of my toes and some on the inside of tbe bone. Then lots of yellow discoloration too, above the ankle 
    Bruising varies greatly between different people: my Mum and wife both come out in a bruise within minutes of brushing past anything and I have to practically break something before I bruise and it only comes out about a week later. Probably a good time to miss the 5k and have a few extra birthday beers. 

    Stevie G said:
    Club track mile tomorrow then.

    For a bit of fun, do people want to guess what I'll run?

    Bit of context
    • 4.59 at Gosport road mile.
    I just had a look back at the only track mile I have on po10 and I was 6 seconds faster on the track than I was at Ealing and I reckon Ealing is faster than Gosport so I'll say 4:50 so even 72s and a couple of extra seconds for the 9.344 metres.  
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30
    No chance Ealing is quicker than Gosport Phil, unless the latter is windy like one year I went!
    Ealing has a number of twists and the last half has the slightest but still unwelcome incline.

    As a comparison of my Ealing v Gosport times...

    GOSPORT
    2022 4.59  
    2021 4.59  
    2018 5.10  (super windy year)
    2017 4.56

    EALING
    2019 5.03, 5.03, 5.08 
    2018 5.08  (decently windy i expect)
    2017 5.00
    2016 5.01

    So the year I did both in good conditions, I was 4 seconds quicker at Gosport.
    The other year I did both was super windy at Gosport but was only 2 seconds slower than the probably decently windy 5.08 at Ealing

    Maybe some other elements like I've obviously only done Gosport in the middle of "short race" season, whereas I've only done Ealing in Jan-March, or November.

    Battersea Park I think is my favourite mile, as it's lovely and flat and the roundabout gives you a nice half way marker.

    4.55 in 2019, and 4.57 in 2018
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Both - Yes will have to just support on Saturday I think!

    Track and road miles depend on what you are used to. I found it hard to get up to speed on the road - as you don't realise you are going quite quick on the track...so you have to go out really hard on the road. Thats what I found anyway.

    Then the other way round it's hard learning to run on the track too.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I got a couple of slight clips in the Gosport mile, when there was plenty of width available for most of it.
    Probably wasn't the most time conscious thing when I switched from the middle to the left midrace to avoid any more!

    I guess on the track the most difficult part is everyone will want the inside, so you have to battle to get there, or face eating up extra distance out wider.

    At least you won't have to eye up dogs and hope they don't storm over to you on a track race :D 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    TR said:
    Bus - i meant to ask......how are the hammies and back shaping up to the paddleboarding?
    Both OK I think, certainly no problems with the back and and difficult to isolate if it does anything to the hamstrings.  The 2 hours of kneeling last Sunday mashed my quads for this week mind and has hampered running! I won't be rushing to do that again anytime soon!

    Some cracking reps going on on here. Oddly, I'm gagging to do some myself before the summer ends 🤣

    Happy birthday Simon! Glad the ankle seems to be on the quicker end of healing. Sensible to let it heal before challenging it though!

    4:55 SG.....(good luck!)
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I'll dive straight into a Nice 'Ironman' race review or autopsy might be a better word for it as there's plenty of reading back to do.

    To set the scene I was training for Lanzarote Ironman late May but due to Spain's strange travel rules I had to transfer to Nice instead. Quite a bit of faffing with flights and accommodation was needed but eventually it's done and we have a nice enough apartment on the Promenande des Anglais. This was so my wife could sit on the terrace and watch the marathon and see me go by on the bike twice without traipsing around Nice all day.

    We arrived on the Thursday and the first pleasant surprise is no covid nonsense, contrary to what I'd read on the govt website. So it felt like travel as normal. All the registration and bike racking went very smoothly, no issues with building the bike and probably the easiest travel and pre race logistical experience I'd had so far, all this despite having a migraine all day which isn't uncommon for me when travelling. Managed a couple of runs, rides and swims Friday/Saturday and all seemed ok albeit my heart rate was a bit higher than I'd hoped but it was very hot. 

    Forecast for race day wasn't that great though, air temperature of 30c and the wind was due to pick up from around 8 mph in the morning to 15 mph including a direction change which meant it was due to change to an easterly just as we turned eastwards!

    Thankfully the sea was pretty calm early morning and it all went pretty much to plan, I'd given a range of 1:05 to 1:08 to the wife and joined the self seeding in the 1:05 pen. Swam 1:06:46 with very little drama although it was very hard to see the swim buoys and I swam 4,000m so 200m extra according to my watch.

    Overall my plan was 1:05 swim, 5:30 bike and 3:15 marathon allowing max of 10 minutes to get under 10 hours and be in with a shout of getting into the top 5 which is what I expected it would take to secure a Kona spot. Dream day would be to try and podium especially as I wasn't actually going to take the Kona spot due to US travel restrictions uncertainties and the $1,200 race entry fee!

    My swim had me in 37th in my age-group out of 300 and given that was the weakest part, I was on track. On to the bike and it started pretty well, I was having to reign in the power a bit as I was getting a bit over excited on the opening flat 6 miles. Then we hit the hills and I am still picking people off but with the odd lightweight coming past me. This uphill section stakes you to Tourette Sur-Loup and is about 13 miles long rising around 400 metres before we hit a fast flowing descent where we drop down about 50% of what we just climbed and in that section I fly past quite a few riders including the ones who'd passed me on the way up. This was my favoutrite part of the ride but it led us to the start of the main climb. The Col de L'Ecre 11.5 miles and nearly 1,000 metres or 3,000ft of elevation. 

    The climb was never that steep but was very hot with no wind, or what three was being behind us so not helping to cool us down, it hit over 30c here and despite taking a full bottle at the aid stations and starting with two full bottles, I still probably need more. Still progress is ok and just 40 miles into the 112 you've done maybe 2/3 of the climbing. As we go through 67km and start the plateau section I have moved from 37th to 10th in my age-group, I don't know this at the time obviously but given we've got over 60 miles of the bike a lot of which is downhill, where I am faster than those around me, I should continue to improve on that. 

    This is where it goes suddenly wrong however! I guess I was pushing the boat out a little on the descents and technical sections but I seemed to lose concentration as I come round a right hand bend too fast and I have split second decision to make, do I commit to the turn or hit the brakes. The bike however isn't turning as well as I'd expect so I hit the brakes but there's a wall with a drop to the left and the camber is also taking me that way, there's no way I am stopping in time and I am going over it at at least 10-15 mph still so I take evasive action throw my body weight the other way whilst also kind of leaping off the bike somehow, I think I land hip first, then roll over my shoulder before finishing kind of upright. I hear some awful noises from the bike, the sound of crunching carbon and scraping followed by gasps and shouts from the crowd on the corner.

    My immediate thoughts are for the bikes coming behind me, thankfully nobody else has followed at the same speed  :D so I have time to grab the bike (X marks the spot) and quickly move beyond the wall to a gravel road on the left. My hip is throbbing a bit and I can feel I've grazed my shoulder but the material on my trisuit is still in tact. I have blood dripping from my finger tips where I've obviously scraped them on the road but otherwise I don't seem too badly hurt. 



    I am shaking a bit from the adrenaline/shock but my attention soon turns to the bike. The rear wheel is a full  solid disc and it's taken some impact as it's buckled slightly and no longer clears the brake pads. I manage to borrow a tool off a group of touring Italian cyclists and let out the brake pads as wide as they will go which allows the wheel to rotate with only a small amount of brake rub. Front wheel is ok and the frame seems remarkably undamaged. My rear bottle lid broke in the crash but the front is ok both having been ejected and a friendly local generously tops it up with some water.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    After about 10 minutes I slowly get going with a few stops to check on things before fully resuming the ride. I don't feel the same though, my legs are suddenly weaker and I am pushing about 50 watts less. It's also not long before we turn into the headwind which is against us for the majority of the remaining miles. Slowly but surely I get weaker and weaker, I don't know if it's just the crash or something else but I feel like the life is slowly being sucked out of me. I struggle up the final climb of around 300 metres knowing that the rest is mostly downhill and flat but the wind is still making it hard. Also for the first time in my life I am not enjoying the downhills, I now notice that my tri bars had slipped in the accident and were now probably -10 degrees, how did it take me 30 miles to notice that? It was making holding an aero position very hard, my neck was aching, body battered and legs pathetically weak. 

    I was still thinking about the positives though, I'd barely put much power through my legs for the second half so I thought once I get on the run I might actually be pretty fresh. However once I got to a flat section I stopped to compose myself and try and eat something but when I tried to walk the bike to the side of the road I realised my hip was not in good shape and I could barely walk so running a marathon was unlikely. The final section of the bike was tough into the headwind and I sat up out of the aero position quite a bit, as I rolled back into Nice the wind is straight into our faces and I am barely able to turn the pedals. As I approach our apartment, I see my wife on the balcony and pull over to tell her about the crash and my doubts over the marathon, feeling like I've let her down to be honest.

    Into transition and I am just casually walking among the hustle and bustle of other athletes busily making their way to their run bags. I figure I need my run kit to walk back to the apartment anyway, you can't collect your bike until 7:30pm, several hours from now. So I slowly change to run kit and start walking the run course in the vain hope I might be able to walk off the pain in my hip. I feel as fresh as a daisy apart from the crash damage, I try a few times to run but I can feel it's a bad idea. I try a few more times but then my calf tightens telling me I am probably seriously favouring my good leg and before long I get to the apartment. I kid myself that I'll just go in and compose myself, have a drink and then continue back outside but in reality that's me done for the day and I soon hit the shower and refuel in comfort.

    That's my first proper DNF and a rather expensive one. I think the wheel is dead so that's a rather expensive replacement. I also discovered when I got back that my steering wasn't really working and opened the headset to discover the lower bearings were completely gone, I mean there weren't any ball bearings in there, just the bit that holds the bearings in place. I think there's a fair chance that this contributed to the crash. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Bit of a nightmare there Reg, but hopefully not much damage done, to you at least for a short term return to happier days.

    The idea of a 10 hour race is truly staggering. A marathon being enough as it is, let alone finishing doing a marathon.
    And not surprised you had doubts about doing one after a nasty one on the cycle!

    Give me the shorter over quickly events any day!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Only just into July Bus, plenty of time for a couple of summer turnouts.
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