A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

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  • My long run route (something between 23 and 24 miles) takes me on a tour of the sites of London - which isn't funny as tourism hots up in the capital! Always a bit tricky by the London eye but Buckingham Palace was very messy yesterday - changing the guards! Got whacked in the face a few times as I tried to push through the crowd.

    Still, knocked four minutes off my previous time despite the setbacks! Felt truly awful for the last half hour though. I thought it should be feeling easier by now.

    Wore my race kit so that's decided now, look out for me in a bright red Childline vest and short black lycra shorts. (I think the chill factor might have contributed to those 4 missing minutes. My arms and legs were the same colour as my vest!)

    Calf held out, but still tender round by the shin bone and at the top. Short recovery run today and then see if there's any point doing speed work Tuesday.

    It's taper time now - still to work out what that means in terms of all but the Sunday runs though.
  • Thanks Ashley for the advice re the expo.

    Kashopoff, I sort of know how you feel as I have a new baby too (except being male I was lucky enough to miss out on one key stage!!). I have found the lack of sleep hard at times when I've had to do a long run. But we're lucky now that little Molly is sleeping through the night from 11pm - 7am so that has helped.

    Yesterday I completed by longest run to date (and the pinnacle of the training schedule). It was 3hrs 30, the third hour of which was pushing Molly in the 3-wheeler (first time I've tried it!). I'm not sure of the distance I covered - I suspect 23+. Found it ok until the last half an hour which hurt badly. Although having run through the pain for a while the last 15 minutes were better and I was able to quicken my pace back up to around 8.30 mins miles. Dread to think what sort of damage I was doing to my knees and legs but what the hell!!

    Anyway, I'm so glad that I have got the longest run over with. Just an 18 miler next weekend and then a 12 mile race pace the following weekend.

    Well done everybody and good luck for this week.
  • Morning! Very interesting reading all these long run reports - it does seem like most people are ignoring the RW magazine plans and doing their final long run yesterday rather than in this weekend...

    Anyway... over on the sub-4 thread Jones The Steam (motto for the day - "always blame someone else") has got us all sending in URLs of photos - which are now being compiled into a single rogues gallery on http://groups.msn.com/sub4/preflm.msnw?Page=1. As very distinguished members of sub-4 (even Paula Radcliffe is a member of sub-4...) do any of you lot fancy doing the same thing? As a start, can I upload your from smithfamily photo from last week, Ashley?
  • Hi PPB & Everyone On This Thread

    I'm so glad to be in your group, the sub 3:45 catagory that is. I've had a leg injury over the past month or so, but all is coming right again now (just in time) thanks to the Physio (cruel people, but keep you in shape). Just over a week ago, I could hardly get up and down stairs and was limping, but now I'm flying again ...

    This is my third FLM: I have a club place and was initially aiming for 3:30 - 3:35, but I think the injury has seen off too many of my Speedwork sessions and now I'm aiming for sub 3:45 and hopefully a GFA place, if I make the grade for next year's FLM.

    I did my last long run on Saturday 27th March. I meant to do 23 miles, but took a wrong turn on my route and only ended up doing 21 miles. Ever since, I've been beating myself of mentally, so any reassurance that all is not lost for the sake of 2 miles, would be greatly appreciated, along with any tips for the final 3 weeks ....

    Hope everyone does well and gets the times they want & GOOD LUCK! See you at the start line in Greenwich Park ...
  • Welcome Sarah - The long runs have beaten me lately. It looks like I'm going in to London off the back of my final long run being nearly 3 weeks back. Not a lot I can do about it now, though I may sneak out for something long(ish) later this week if I can get a day off work.

    I'm jealous of all those long runs you've all the regulars seem to have been doing. I thought some of you were injured?

    The up to date lists (re-ordered and added Lars):

    Blue Start
    01631 - Fruit Cake
    02946 - Freddo
    08437 - Pete
    08533 - Puggers
    09773 - Hollywood (aka BNTM)
    12722 - Ashley
    13315 - Happybadger
    25022 - Ping Pong Boy
    25439 - Lars
    ????? - Mine's a Smooth
    ????? - BigBob

    Red Start
    35964 - Donna W
    42020 - Adam House
    42782 - NickB
    51059 - Twin Dad
    52142 - Woony

    Green Start
    29429 - Kashopoff
  • Hi - Back Again

    If anyone's interested in adding me into the list of starters, I'd be glad to see some friendly faces at Greenwich Park.

    There are 7 of us from our club (Richmond & Zetland Harriers) in total doing the FLM this year, but we are scattered all over London accommodation-wise, so not sure if we will be able to meet up before the start.

    We are also all very staggered in the times we are aiming for, which range from sub 2:25 (definitely not me) to sub 4:30, so none of us will actually be running together.

    I am at the Blue Start, number 25709 and would be interested in tagging on to the Runner's World Pace Team for the sub 3:45 finish or along with the rest of you or both if that is the case.

    I will be travelling by tube from Ruislip, but I'm at the Blue Start for the first time this year (Red last 2 years). Is Greenwich still the best tube stop for me to get off at, then walk through the park to the start? I know it says get off at Maze Hill in the instructions, but obviously this isn't a tube stop. If anyone can help, it would be appreciated. Just not sure how far it is to walk through the park from Greenwich tube to the Blue Start.

    Thanks again and look forward to hearing anyone's tips for the next 3 weeks or tales from the last few weeks ....

    Cheers :0)
  • Hi Sarah and a warm welcome into our gang!

    Don't worry about the 2 miles you missed in your long run - it would probably make a marginal difference. I did the same thing 2 weeks ago - I was supposed to be doing a 20 mile race, but the prospect of driving for 2 hours in the wind and rain and then running for 3 hours in the same put me right off, so I went to the gym and ran 18 miles on the treadmill while watching the 6 nations rugby!

    There you go, you're added to the list of starters (there's nothing exclusive about it - we just copy and paste it from previous postings!)

    Blue Start
    01631 - Fruit Cake
    02946 - Freddo
    08437 - Pete
    08533 - Puggers
    09773 - Hollywood (aka BNTM)
    12722 - Ashley
    13315 - Happybadger
    25022 - Ping Pong Boy
    25439 - Lars
    25709 - Sarah Gregory 3
    ????? - Mine's a Smooth
    ????? - BigBob

    Red Start
    35964 - Donna W
    42020 - Adam House
    42782 - NickB
    51059 - Twin Dad
    52142 - Woony

    Green Start
    29429 - Kashopoff
  • Welcome Sarah, added you to the list below. PPB is there room on the injury bench with you?

    Went for my recovery run at lunchtime and felt some pulling on my calf around the bone. Very sore to teh touch afterwards so decided I'd better see a physio. Just got back (don't hang around) and I have shin splints.

    Good news is she reckons I should make it round on the day, bad news is I'm restricted to a few easy pace 5 milers and some breast stroke in the pool. Categorically no speed work. Just lots of ice.

    Blue Start
    01631 - Fruit Cake
    02946 - Freddo
    08437 - Pete
    08533 - Puggers
    09773 - Hollywood (aka BNTM)
    12722 - Ashley
    13315 - Happybadger
    25022 - Ping Pong Boy
    25439 - Lars
    25709 - Sarah
    ????? - Mine's a Smooth
    ????? - BigBob

    Red Start
    35964 - Donna W
    42020 - Adam House
    42782 - NickB
    51059 - Twin Dad
    52142 - Woony

    Green Start
    29429 - Kashopoff
  • Hi Donna

    I wondered if you could perhaps help me with my route to the start on race day, to the Blue Start. Please see my 2nd message above, regarding getting off at Greenwich tube for the Blue Start, is this OK?

    Sorry to hear about your leg/shin again, it seems we all have a touch of the leg problems at the moment. There is light at the end of the tunnel though, I thought I was totally out of marathon contention a week ago and now, it's like a new leg! I have had very slight orthotic fitted in my left trainer and my leg is strapped to support the problem muscle (where the interior muscle joins the shin bone, it was inflamed and very painful). I will therefore be sporting very trendy strapping on race day, so you will be able to spot me!

    I have to treat it with heat (good, old, reliable hot water bottle), massage and exercises every night, which are definitely working, along with 3 visits to the Physio (what would we do without them).

    There is still mild pain there when running, but it is getting fainter and I feel a different person to a week ago.

    Are we planning to meet up at the Blue Start and try to keep the RW Pacer in sight or are we keeping our own pace group perhaps?

    Cheers
    Sarah :0)
  • Sarah Gregory welcome to the club!

    To answer your question the Blue Start is best served by Blackheath Station and not Greenwich or Maze Hill. The other advantage of Blackheath is that there isn't such a long walk to the start.

    Coming in from Kent the past two years have been great with the train going to Lewisham but thats not the case this year and I will have to travel into London and then out again - bit of a fag but hell, someones got to do it.

    Very good question are we going with the pace groups, doing our own groupy thing or just generally doing our own thing

    I guess we may sort of start together with the best intentions and then see how it goes from there.

    At Tunbridge and Thanet it worked quiet well and we stayed in a group for the majority of the way, it was only in the final miles that we split. Woony dragged me around Tunbridge and I thank him for that. Was a little selfish at Thanet though and we split in the last 3 miles...

    Woony we still aiming at a sprint finish for the final photo?
  • Hello! I was masquerading as Happybadger, but I've now got my own exciting name, so it'll be Amazon in the Blue Start under 13315 now. Still limping due to hip problem, but did another mile in pool this morning. At least I'll be able to drag myself along by my arms if my legs give way...my front crawl is coming on well.

    Someone somewhere suggested pinning energy gels to your shorts if you don't have a pocket. Has anyone tried it? I've got nicely worn in shorts but they don't have a pocket. Not keen on wearing a belt.
  • F@>k Me its late, I should be in BED. Mr Guiness is temping me to keep drinking!

    Good to see all the runnin is going to plan, Sorry to hear about your setback Donna, r u still OK 4 Wed? I did my last long run in Hemel Hemstead Yesdy, it was sold as a 20 but was actually a 20.7(ish). However as long as the 20 mile marker was acurate, I got a PB on my Thanet 20. I came in at 2:47.12, with much help from a Scots Gent called Rob. Started very slow and a stop accured at some steps down to a tow path along a canel. Did the first 3 miles in bang on 27 mins, then came a Mother F@<>ker of a hill and I thought 8:30m/m for the course had gone. B4 I knew it we hit 8 mile on 8:30 m/m, we then slightly build on this all the way to about 15/16 at which point we were "min plus in the bag 4 8:30s. At this point it got tough for me and I had to dig in (with a lot of help from Rob).

    All in all not too bad as it wasn't the flattist of courses. However it tell me that SUB 3:45 is there this year if I dig in But a PB (3:39:45) is a little Too much to ask. So thats Probs a NO to our normal sprint finish Ashley.

    Donna, good to hear you'll be doning the Childline colours 4 d day. I tried mine out for my 18 mile TM run last Monday, it gave me some serious Joggers Nipple. However I'll be wearing it on d day (but well vased up) so we may make a good Photo 4 them if we keep together.

    Anyhow Mr Guiness is callin, Bye

    Woony
  • Mmm? That should of been 2 min plus in the bag 4 8:30s. C wat Mr Guiness does to my already bad punchuation and Speeeeeellingk.

    I think its time to go

    Goodnight all.

    Woony
  • Amazon - I had the same dilema with Gels and looked at belts last week. Didn't buy one and tried safety pinning two on to my shorts on my Saturday long run .... (plus one in a shorts pocket).....no problem at all. Definately worth a try
    I pinned then horizontally on the outside on the elastic bit towards the top

    Did a speedy (for me ) 10 miles last night on the treadmill. 6 miles outside tonight....3 days to holiday in Spain
  • Morning all, and hello to the newcomers !!all welcome !!

    had a great 4 days in barcelona ,plenty of food, sights and shopping even if the weather was crXp, rained loads and was cold. Still had a good relax, didn't do any running but loads of walking. Did a 6 miler on sunday at marathon pace which felt easy then did a 19.3 miler last night in 2.48 (8.42 miling) which felt fairly comfortable even at the end when I picked up pace a bit. Hopeful for 3.45 on the day, no injuries to speak of but having a physio sesh tonight just in case. Gonna start tapering now, alternate speed sessions with days off plus a 10 k race this sunday.

    Can't make the friday registration, still traveling down, will probably be there saturday around 10-11. Still at least we'll be meeting up on the day. Will probably meet with the 3,45 pace group, as we all merge after 2 miles , the pace groups should all meet up as well I presume. Got to buy another bottle belt as can't find old one, only use it with the FLM, and will also carry 4-6 SIS energy gels . Always seem to stop using them after about 18 miles as stomach seems to stop working in sympathy with my legs.

    Not long to go now, hope i've done enough training this year for a change.

    good running


    pete
  • Donna, I'm very sorry to hear of your shin splint woes. Look on the bright side though - you've nearly completed your full training programme, and even if you do no running between now and the race you'll not lose much fitness. So I think the most important thing is to take it easy now and whatever you do DON'T RUSH BACK INTO IT!!! The last thing you want is to aggravate it again with a week to go. I remember I got a calf strain once after a half marathon. I left it a week and ran again but it recurred. I then had to leave it 2 more full weeks before running again. Probably if I'd left it 2 weeks in the first place I'd have been fine. There's a moral to that story somewhere if you can find it!!

    Sarah, I was presuming that we would all start together and try to keep the 3.45 pacing group in sight. Might as well make use of it if it's there. We can always break away later on if we decide to have a stab at breaking 3 hours!!
  • Good Morning All!!

    Thanks for the tips on getting to the start, I think it'll be a very early morning for all of us ....

    Did a steady 6.5 miles last night (after having Sunday off), I still have some pain in my left leg/shin, but nothing like before. I just need to be careful not to aggravate the injury again before race day, keep the strapping tight and go straight back to the Physio's "torture slab" if I feel any more pain.

    I normally train 6 days/week, but it's been more like 4 or 5 days of hobbling lately, however, all is feeling good now, so I may attempt a speed session at the club tonight. I've got an 18 miler planned for Thursday afternoon, hope the weather is good ...

    The news about starting together and trying to keep the RW Pace Group in sight sounds good, if we can all meet up somewhere at the start. We can always "do our own thing" later on if we feel like a sub 2.30 clocking (definitely not me). I think I'll need all the encouragement I can get over the last 4 or 5 miles, as that's when I feel really knackered, like I'm wearing lead boots and doing 13 minute miles (probably about right)!

    Keep the news coming, it's good reading ....

    Cheers Everyone
    Sarah :0)

    P.S. Woony, Mr Smirnoff seems to have the same effect on me !!??!
  • Ahh, how nice it is to be Sober. I keep telling my self every drink will be the last until the Marathon. Somehow it dont always work.

    Donna, if those shin splints r a problem, theres a guy at the station who is a fully Qualified Sports massage Therapist. unless you're already under a good un.

    Talkin of Massage I had a great one after my 20 (20.7) on Sunday. The ones u normally get after an event r normally just quickies. This one was a good 20min/25mins. My legs feel fine today. My left foot is still achy but thats due to an injury back in June 2002 which May never be back to normal. Its that injury that caused me to walk at mile 19 last year and forget all ideas of sub 3:45.

    May rest again 2day, after all its Taper-time now. The TAPER seems to be the only part of Marathon training I get right.

    Take it easy

    Woony
  • Hello all, feeling a bit sorry for myself today. Physio made my leg hurt and can feel it throbbing. Training a course today so trying to sit down wherever possible to rest it. Puggers - thank you. I will rest this week I think (so, sorry Woony looks like the run is off, maybe next week or just a drink instead to say hello?)

    Sarah, interesting about the taping, I was reading about that somewhere so might ask my physio about it when I go back for more torture on Thursday!

    Pete, I reckon you've done plenty of good training son't worry. Most important thing for us all now is to make it to the start line. It takes 2-3 weeks for training to have an impact on fitness so what you do now won't stand much chance of making you faster. Just keep up your fitness and don't get injured!

    I hope we all do meet up when the pace groups merge. Will we all have our names on our vests/t-shirts? I will and I'll look out for the rest of you. I know I'll appreciate having you all there to drag me round a bit!

    Safe running everyone. Might head to the pool tonight or tomorrow.
  • Woony - qualified sports massage therapist? Is he cheaper than the £40 a half hour the physio is charging me? Never thought running a marathon would work out so expensive!!
  • Donna, I doubt very much Andy will charge £40 per half hour. Its more like £30 an hour I think. I have used him a few times but as its at work in our 'stand down ' time I've never paid him.

    If shin splints is the only problem, then a Physio may be more than is ness. I'm no expert but Shin Splints need Rest, and Stripping. I had a problem a while ago with shin splints (only minor) and have gently Stripped them myself in the Bath after most of my runs ever since and had do trouble. Its just a build up of calcium I believe!

    As I said I'm staying up at the Station Wed night anyway. So If you wana meet/talk to Andy he should be in the Castle (PH) at about 18:30 hrs. Me and Dean may go 4 a run anyway, so if you r still teaching Yogi bear first, then pop over after 1900hrs and I shall be in the Castle too. I may just do a Gentle run on the Station Treadmill during our 'fitness hour'. So I'm not too sure exactly whats on yet. Either way I'll end up in the Pub (for 1 or 2) and Andy (Sports Mass) is staying up too. You've got the station number so give me a bell 2moro if you're interested.

    Woony (Jayson)
  • That should be no trouble. I thought I was sober?
  • You lot are all so pessimistic, keeping the 3.45 group in our sites... maybe aiming for sub 3 if you feel up to it...

    I prefer that the sub 3.45 keep us in thier sites and we peel off for an attempt at making it into the British Olypic Team (sub 2.12 for male I think).

    Woony well done on new PB on what sounds like a killer course,... should have nicely set you up... But how can we finish a race without a sprint finish... Tunbridge was great and the photo is fantastic... we realy must try and do it again on the day!

    There are URWFRC meet up points at Red and Blue starts and this would be the best place to meet pre the start, after that lets see what the day offers us all... Certainly I am looking forward to meeting you all and I know as a team we can all help each other get through it and hopefully if the mind is willing (and in my case it is very much the mind) we can overcome anything that the body will throw at us on the day.

    Oh well I am off on my hols from now so goo dluck everyone for the next two weeks. Don't overdo it. Those that have injuries REST its too late to worry if you have done enough training now and we don't want to hear of any of us having to drop out so close.
  • Hi Guys

    Back from Cannes again after a few days hard graft.

    I'm in a real dilemma as to what pacing group i should be going with. With a 1.46 half I think i'm in the 3.45 area, but last thursday it took me 3hrs 30 to run 23 miles. I'm feeling really tired to cant see me doing much more before the marathon. I have a sporty mate who has run it 4 times (all under 3hrs - even having run Paris a week before!!) and he reckons that you should rest to the extent of being in a bad mood on the start line because you have all this pent up running energy to release and are deperate to run. So, do i go with the 3.45 pacers and drop off if it gets a bit hot for me later on (in risk of blowing up) or do be pesimistic and run with the 4hr group ?
  • hi donna, whatever you do don't go back to running too soon, shin splints need rest !!. If you get too jittery you can always try the cross trainer/ski machine without using your arms. As your feet never come off the ground there shouldn't be any impact to aggravate the shins yet you'll still be keeping your muscle fitness maintained.

    it seems from the messages that if you want to do long runs , a physio of some sort is vitually mandatory. One good thing at the exhibition is that there are a load of massage tables where you can have a leg massage for a spot of last minute relaxation.

    I normally get to the start quite early, I stay at in-laws house in bexley heath and bro in law gives me a lift to the start nice and early. Make sure you use the loo's early ,especially the ladies amongst you, as the queues are horrendous, you definately don't want to be caught short round the course,!

    Just did a 25 min recovery jog round ilkley park, legs a bit tight from yesterday, but not bad, another easy one tomorrow then a speed sesh thursday. I won't know what to do with myslf as I get into the taper, all this free time and no runs to do !!

    happy running

    pete
  • Have a great holiday Ashley!

    Will see you tomorrow Woony - in the pub! (The Castle is the one on the corner about 50 metres from the station isn't it?) Will get there about 6:45 I reckon. How will I recognise you and Andy?!

    Adam - hard one. I reckon if you can run 23 miles in 3:30 you're in with a good shot at sub 3:45 but I've never run a marathon so what do I know! You will feel much better on the day with some tapering and rest, plus apparently the crowd has an enormous impact. My boyfriend does no running for 2 or 3 days before his marathons and only does a couple of short runs at marathon pace in the week leading up to it and he ran 2:43 last year. I think you might have to run to how you feel on the day. You've done enough training - no more long runs now. You will be tired and of course you'll be tired after running 23 miles (I always feel shattered and close to tears).
  • Hi All

    Popping back in again. I'm still mainly in the sub-4 thread... still the number one goal is to look for revenge from 7 years ago...

    However I think I'm on for sub-3:45 if all goes well and even have these dreams about getting to 3:30.

    DonnaW - sounds like maybe you have been kicking tourists? My advice - do exactly what you are doing, relax for awhile, get to the start line and then get that GFA time!

    adam - 3:30 for 23 in training sounds good to me (I did 22 in the same time last weekend) - you are definitely on for sub 3:45. Your only real dilemma is whether you try to go for faster!

    SarahG - those lead boots are a problem... not sure how to cope with that either - I'm kind of hoping I get my wall over and done with quickly - is that possible?

    Amazon + TwinDad (+ the ghost of crazybadger) - I'm not taking gels at all - instead I'm hoping for a few bananas from some carefully placed supporters (including the loverly ultrameerkat) and I'm hoping to take LS from every stop - this could be a mistake but I'm hoping it isn't....

    Now back to my 3:30 fantasies... Can it really be done? I think Ashley had the right answer! I'm toying with setting off at like 8:15 pace... that will then leave me lots more options for the second half -including 7:45 pace if there are some particularly kind gods on duty that day - or if my normal gods are in place then I'll be staggering through the last 4 miles at 12:00 pace.
  • Adam....I think you want to do 3.45...so give it a go...worst case scenario is probably that you have to slow down a bit if it gets too much. It looks like you are probably able to do 3.55 on your own (?)so with other runners and encouragement its worth a go. If you try for 4.00 you'll probably wish afterwards that you'd had a go at 3.45
  • thanks guys - it's strange how a few people you don't know can make such a difference to how positive you feel.
  • Lovely isn't it Adam? Now go and eat some low GI carbohydrates and take it easy!
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