Pain behind the knee

After 8 miles of a 9 mile run my leg near the knee was sore. A few hours after the run it was fine. A week later, during which I ran 2 3 milers and a 6 miler with no problems, at mile 8 my leg started to hurt and by mile 10 it was sore. It stayed sore the following day. Today its okay to walk on, but I doubt I could run so I plan to rest this week. There is no swelling.

The pain is not actually my knee, it’s a pain in the back of my leg, behind the knee on the inside.

If you sit on your chair, legs bent at 90 degrees and feet flat on the floor, then you put your hands under your leg above your knee, on the outside you feel one string thing (like a fat wire) and on the inside you feel two of those - well the pain is just inside the two inside ones. Its deep in there, you have to press in with your fingers to feel it.

Its almost gone today, but I am worried about it happening again as I am training for the FLM.

So, what are those two inside wires called and what is inside of them, up behind the knee? Any help appreciated.

What can I do to treat it? I iced it last night but should I be stretching something?

As an aside, I have orthotic inserts for my work shoes that I stopped wearing a month ago (changed shoes, didn't swap inserts over). I have had the inserts a year and have only ever worn them in work shoes. Last year I trained and ran a half marathon with no problems. I have the inserts in my new shoes now, just in case it was related to that).

Many thanks,

Rich.

Comments

  • Have v similar problem, like an intermittant fault on my left knee - right behind the kneecap. OK to run on on the incline, but slightly sore on the decline. Also doesn't feel too great sometimes whilst walking in heels. Don't have orthotics, and don't want to stop wearing heels. Is it OK to train on if not too sore? Eager for suggestions about cause/solution. KB
  • If yours is behind the kneecap search the internet for runners knee or Bakers Cyst and see if the symptoms match yours.

    I think mine might be the very top of the calf muscle - but I'd like to know if anyone else has had it.

    Annoying this injury business!
  • I get pain there too, had it a few years ago really badly to a point of not running or cycling for 6 months, but these days it's a dull ache and I ignore it mostly. I'm no anatomist but I trawled the internet for pics of muscles and tendons and those 'wires' as you call them are the tendons at the bottom of the three hamstring muscles which attach to the lower leg bones. If it's those tendons that are hurting then I'm guessing you'll need rest and ice - but, I'm not a physio either! If you're really worried and you're training for FLM I'd go to see a physio/osteopath/chiropractor/doctor and see what it really is and how bad
  • Hi Liz, its not those tendons, its something to the inside of the leg. On here:
    http://www.octc.kctcs.edu/gcaplan/anat/Notes/API Notes J Muscles of the Leg.htm

    Section VIII, B)Posteria, 2) Soleus theres a bit in the pic that attaches above the knee and that looks the nearest to the discomfort I can find.

    Of course, I could be totally wrong. As you say, getting a proper diagnosis is probably the right way to go.

    I plan to rest and ice this week as it is getting better daily. When I can no longer feel it (by Friday I hope) I will go for a swim. If thats okay I will try a treadmill run the following day, say 4 miles. If good I might try and 8 mile run a day or two later and stop straight away if the pain comes on. If it does, off to the Dr's.

    If I could afford it I'd attend somewhere now but I'm skint and don't feel my GP would be too helpful.

    I have found a few posts about this sort of injury on here but no-one has ever followed up with a diagnosis or treatment.
  • Just found a clinic in Bristol that will do a free initial consultation:

    http://www.bris.ac.uk/sport/sportsmedicine/injury/expect.html

    I've booked in for Thursday. At least they might be able to give me an idea on what it is or what it will cost to find out what it is!
  • hurrah for sports injury clinics! hope it all goes well, can't have you missing the FLM! good luck with the training
  • I've had the same as the bloke on the runnersforum board , but I'm still in a lot of pain and haven't run since Dec 11th - I can't even walk quickly and have pain all the time. The physio is hopeful and positive but I could scream to be honest.
  • Hi

    I had a pain behind the knee feeling like it was right imbetween the tendons inside too. It started after i started wearing knee supports for sore knees. I stopped running for a few months and it seemed better, then as it got into winter it came back. I was wearing very close fitting long leg tights training in the winter, and someone said about the coincidence that it was always when i have something close fitting on my knee that i got the pain. So i now wear loose trousers to run in, and the pain is nearlt nearly gone....it might be worth a try!

    I am currently training for FLM, and my knees are getting generally sore and inflamed... so really unsure what to do now!
  • Thanks for the link.

    The physio I saw believes that the problem relates to an ACL reconstruction I had done in 1998. She says the muscles in my right leg are not as big as those in my left. She made me stand on one leg and bend my knee and I wobbled a lot and she said that my knee stability should be a lot better.

    Essentially, as the other message states, I have under-developed muscles from where I couldn't exercise for the best part of a year and when I got back into football, other areas of my knee started compensating for those small muscles. Now the 'other' muscles and tendons are crying enough. I have another appointment on Monday for a full assessment, including treadmill runs and what have you. She said I could try running up to 5 miles in the meantime.

    So, I've just got back from the gym. Ran 5k in 25mins or so (8min/miles) which is quite quick for me, but there was a bit of pain in the knee. I then walked for 5 minutes, then started jogging at a slow pace (10.30 min/mile) and had to stop after 3/4 km, pain was just getting worse.

    I also analysed my (appalling) technique and I reckon I run with a limp. My right foot doesn't land as far forward as my left and it seems to land hard and flat footed, which would explain the sore sole of the foot I suffer from. In comparison, my left foot lands on the heel and has a lovely role to it until it takes off again.

    I am really hoping that on Monday I receive an excruiating massage that loosens up the the muscles and gets me back out there, I had a 12 miler planned for Sunday dammit!

    I'll post again Tuesday when I have an update.
  • Update.

    At the physio yesterday I had some ultra-sound(?) to try and reduce the swelling in the back of my knee. She also rotated my lower leg a lot to try and free it up. Then I had to do some exercises where I lie on my back, lift my leg up and hold it just below the knee and then straighten the leg -ouch!

    Then I ran on the treadmill and it seems I was right about my hopeless running style. My left arm goes forwards and backwards, my right arm flails about all over the shop. Apparently your arms should 'go the way you are running', so I have something to work on there.

    I met Claire (the physio) at the gym this morning to sort an exercise routine. I have to stand on this d-shaped inflatable (for want of a better description) and do various exercises, like bending my legs at the knees and holding for 10 seconds x 10 and moving my weight from one leg to the other. This is supposed to improve my balance and work the right 'balancing muscles'.

    I also do some work on some machines. One is where you are stood up, chest against the thing (sorry for being so technical) and you push one foot out behind you - is it hip extensions? The other is sat leaning back, feet about chest height push away from you lifting weights.

    After a week or so of this, plus swimming, Claire is going to shoot some video of me running on the treadmill and then we'll work on fixing my technique, which should stop a recurrence of problems in the future.

    Best money I have ever spent, seeing as we are addressing problems I have had for nearly 10 years, thoroughly recommend it. Just hope it sorts it all soon enough to get back to my marathon training plan. If not, I guess there's always next year.
  • Another update:

    Still doing the exercises building up the muscles - higher weight and more repititions. I can't believe how much better my balance is after only one week. I used to have trouble standing on the d-shaped thing with 2 feet, now I can balance on one foot on it for 45 seconds at a time.

    I told Claire (physio) that I sufferred from foot pain. She massaged my foot, basically felt like she was trying to snap it in half, and recommended loads of calf-stretches. I stretch my calfs using the "leg behind you hands against the wall" and "whole foot on one step, just toes of other foot on same step and push heel down" techniques.

    My whole lower half feels different now, everything just feels better.

    4 more days of weights/stretches and then its a treadmill assessment again. Hope thats okay, think I'll struggle to make the London marathon if I take another week off at this stage.
  • great news Rich, maybe we should all see your Claire, I could do with getting straight myself! Best of luck with the FLM training sounds like you're really improving already :o)
  • Yet another update*:

    The calf stretches have been a revelation! Originally it hurt when I stretched using the hands against the wall, one leg out behind you stretch - now I find that I have to really push out to feel any 'pull'. This has meant that my feet don't hurt so much when doing the balancing exercises.

    I have started doing a lot more stretching, like 30 minutes worth every morning to try and loosen up my whole body. I hope to be able to touch my toes one day.....

    I am also getting into doing the weights. My legs are massively stronger in such a short time and balance is much improved too. On Friday I had my running video'd. I really need to work on getting my right arm to go forwards and backwards in a straight line, close to my side. I also need to stand up straighter, I tend to slump forwards.

    To help this, I have to stand like a robot, hands straight, palms pointing inwards and make robotic movements with my arms going straight back and forwards in a running like motion. While doing this I have to lean forwards for a bit, then upright for a bit, then lean back for a bit. Yes, I feel a prize burk doing this! I have to do this for 3 to 5 minutes before I go running, to get me into the swing of it so to speak. 3 to 5 minutes is a very long time.....

    Saturday I did some stretching, did the robot thing and then ran 4 x 1 miles. Did each mile with a 30 second walk, 4 min run, 30 second walk and did all for miles in sub 9 min mile times. One was even an 8.14! Thats ridiculous for me, my fastest mile is usually 7.30's at an absolute push, so considering I walked for a minute, well, its just crazy.

    Seems that by using my arms and focussing on a straight forwards and back technique that I run both faster and more economically. My wife thinks I was fast just because I was excited to be out there again. Anyway, no knee pain!

    Sunday I did a steady 5 miles, run/walk at 10 min miles. My marathon goal time is 10:18's so this training pace was technically a bit quick but it felt comfortable. No knee pain. Technique went a bit wobbly later on mind.....

    Monday 5am and I woke up feeling rough, started being sick and have been ill since. I plan to stay away from the gym until Saturday morning, when some light weights/stretches/short run/walk will be in order. Bit disappointed that I can't do the 10 mile cross-country I had planned for Sunday, but happy that the FLM is currently still on, even if I am behind in my training schedule.

    My top tip is still to see a physio if you have an injury but my sub-tips are:

    1) Do loads of stretching, especially your calfs as it even resolves daft things like foot pain
    and
    2)Do some leg weights even if you think you have muscley runners legs, this might help stop possible future knee problems.

    *I am doing the updates as when I originally searched forminjury help I found lots of initial complaints but little in the way of treatment and follow-up. I'm hoping that this thread may help someone in the future.
  • Interesting Rich - I have had problems for the past year with soleus, calf and now back of the knee pain - where mine hurts feels like it is also at the top of the calf so I assume my problems are all calf related.
  • I went on a hicking trip 5 years ago and on the first day i walked for 8 hours and then i came ran down these man made steps with my knees locked for a whole 1 hour the same day. Then the second day i walked for about 5 hours and then i came down this pathway, if you were to walk down this pathway standing up you would fall, so i was walking on my hands and feet like a crab. The same day i came back home and i did not sleep until 4:30 in the morning and then i got up at 9am to go and play football, after that my knees were never the same. Then i started taking health aid glucosamine and condroitin and cod liver oil, i got bit better then i was helping my friend move his house and i told him that i will not be able to lift any heavy items. So the guy who was helping him asked me to help him to pick up this drier which i thought was going to be very light, little did i know that it was the washing machine and i lifted it up with my knees locked then the following day i was in pain and the weather was very cold which didn't help my pain. This pain continued until Summer 2003 when i took GLC 2000 www.glcdirect.com An American Product for a whole month and i was doing weight training, but did not play any football for that month, my knees felt much better and i was able to run play football etc. When the product finished the pain started up again, i have been to the physiotherapists and they adviced me to stretch the muscles around the knee and apply the ice, but i was unable to do that for months and months, then finally the pain got so worse that i could not afford the glc 2000 so i had to stop all activities and its been over 6 months since i have played football or done any jogging etc. Then about two months ago i met a old friend of mine and i told him about my knee and he told me that because i have left all the activities my muscles in my legs have become dried and weak, so he suggested that i should message my knees with warm oil and stretch the knees by putting pressure on them from different directions and by squatting like a baby and getting up by using the knees only rather than the back i am doing that currently. The regime which my friend told me tires me out and i feel like i have no energy in my legs and they feel cold and tired and i feel very lathargic. just a bit of back ground history so you know where i am coming from.

    What advice can you give me for a speedy recovery? so i can do the things i used to do and my knees feel the way they were before i went on that hicking trip?

    i look forward to hearing from you soon
    thank you
  • "i have been to the physiotherapists and they adviced me to stretch the muscles around the knee and apply the ice, but i was unable to do that for months and months"

    If you've seen a physio then I would follow their advice, thats all I am doing. Maybe it would be worth visiting a physio again and get a re-assessment?
  • Thank You FOR YOUR HELP ADVICE AND TIME I WILL CERTAINLY CONSIDER VISTING THE PHYSIO
  • I did 5 miles run/walk Saturday and the pain in behind the knee is back. I am post-poning my FLM until next year, so I can focus on sorting my problem rather than getting fit to run.

    Disappointed, but know its the right thing to do.
  • I am also deferring until 2007 as I ran up the escalators at Kings Cross to get to a train in time last night and pain returned when boarding the train - at least I made the train but bad news about calf and this morning my "healthy" right calf is tight as anything after the mad dash last night! Frustrating!!!
  • I know this is an older thread but I just want to say thanks++ Rich for all your detailed comments about managing your knee injury - I'm struggling with a knee injury at the moment and your posts have been really helpul in giving me some ideas as to what to do!

    Hope you managed to do the FLM in the end!

     Anna

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