Shades Marathon Training



  • The reason I need a pair of new legs is because I've probably been going too fast and not heeding what our mentor told me :))
  • tiredgirl - I wish I could say the sameas then at least I would know the cause, but this is not the case for me. The reason I thought Shades plan was such a good one for me was that I believed that if I just ran 3 times a week and stuck to a slower pace then I may be able to train without any more trouble. And it has been rewarding doing just that!

    Unfortunately I have found that the trouble has come back regardless! Achilles strains are manipulative, evasive and extremely hard to beat!
  • Mr BumpMr Bump ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear your achilles problem has flared up again. Hope your physio can sort it soon. Don't give up.
  • Shades - thanks very much for the Plan. I think i will struggle with the tempo runs at 9.20 - 9.40 but will do my best. The Plan looks very good and I hope to be able to stick to it. I need to work on leg strength I think so I will be cycling more on my rest days as I found that helped when I was injured earlier in the year.
    I did an 8 mile run today, before I looked at your Plan, and my average pace was 10.62, so I need to sort out my pacing a lot!
    Thanks again.
  • It's interesting having a group of people who are following this plan. I'm on week 2 at the moment and am trying to get to grips with a slower pace. The Garmin's helping though.
  • I haven't got a Garmin so adjusting my pace will be a bit of trial and error. I am looking forward to starting the Plan and did 1 hour cycling today. I will have a short run tomorrow or Friday and another at the weekend then start the Plan properly next week.
  • Scooby - I spent two years suffering from Achilles (and calf) problems. The solution proved devastatingly simple.

    The right shoes.
    And inserts.

    On the subject of shoes: Mrs Snaps has had awful knee trouble since she whacked her knee in October. She stopped running for three or four weeks and when she started again it still gave her hell.

    Then she went back to an old pair of shoes (prior to her treadmill-video-gait-analysis ones).

    And overnight her knee trouble vanished.

    So if I were you I'd have a really close look at your shoes ... of course I expect you've done that. But even so ...
  • The plan is great! I am on week 5 now - hoping that the 14 miler this weekend will be OK!!!
  • Does the Garmin have a display that shows estimated pace, or is it simply a kind of guesswork based on experience?

  • Snapstinget thanks -I suspect you may be right. I've just changed my shoes after having had a foot scan. Most peeps, running shop, nhs pod, footscan guy think I only over pronate very slightly so neutral shoe with bit of support should be fine. However footscan guy did say that my arches collapse so that may be a clue, it's like solving a puzzle and I'm not doing to good at the mo! I've had same thing achilles, calf, shin splints for over a year now, but am determined to get to the bottom of whats causing it! Now have adistar cushion shoe, so we'll see if that helps!

    What shoe works for you, I'm curious!
  • I've been through all the same. I now run in NB 1060 (a neutral shoe) with orthotics and have regular sports massage and (touch wood) so far everything is good.

    When I ran last year's marathon I had my feet taped up to hold my arches in place to prevent the shin splints that I started suffering from 3 weeks prior to the race. That worked, so I think it's just a case of holding my foot to stop it collapsing when I'm running

    Does any of that make any sense.............?
  • The Garmin (I've got the 201) displays real-time pace and you can also set up pace alerts that will tell you to 'speed up' or 'slow down' You can also set it up for a particular distance, or time, and the pace that you want to run at.
    Sorry I've been away from the forum for a while- had a couple of days off work with a nasty virus.

    Scooby - please don't even consider doing a long run of 16 miles this weekend. If you're suffering you must ease up. If you are Ok to run do a shorter long run of 8 or 10 miles. No plan is set in stone.
    Tempo runs etc - for those of you that maybe have not printed a hard copy of the plan - the recommended paces are as a footnote to the spreadsheet

    a 4 mile tempo run is

    1m easy
    2m at tempo speed
    1 m easy

    The tempo section can be from 10k to half marathon pace so should not feel too hard.
  • oops, I've been trying to run anything up to 6 miles actually at tempo speed usually with a 1 mile warm up (should have read it a bit more closely). No wonder my legs have dropped off! Hope you're better now Shades
  • Shades, I think I might have gone wrong with the Tempo runs too, I warmed up 0.6mile then did a 5 mile Tempo run, no wonder I was not enjoying it. Will try next week to get it right.

    All, Keep posting your errors it does help us beginners. Got a 14 mile run tomorrow then back to work on Sat for 4 x days. This 4 on 4 off shift is so hard to get your training right. You dont feel like running after 15hr shifts.

    Thanks Again Shades.
  • Nick, thanks for that. Sounds very interesting :)

    sluggie - I'm fine now thanks, but major hiccup to my training. Looks like I may end up using my March races as my training for Hull.

    Sorry folks about the misunderstanding on the tempo runs, must add that bit in on the notes!
  • No problem shades, we know now. We all learn from mistakes.
  • Hi Shades
    Sorry to hear you've been poorly, but good to hear you're now on the mend.

    I'm seeing a sports physio tomorrow so should know a bit more then. I haven't run since Tuesday. In fact I haven't exercised at all since then, which isn't like me. But I'm sure this is just a hiccup and I'll get back out there whether that be running or cross training.

    Scooby - good luck with the physio
  • Thanks for the new pacing guide Shades :)))

    Good luck with the fizz Scooby

    Going out for a 12 mile run today, I'm a bit behind schedule because of leg problems last week. I had a massage on Wed so I'm hoping I can feel the benefits today. I'll let you know....
    tiredgirl - take it easy, 12 is a lot to do when you've had a niggle.
  • I'm going to try 10 on Sunday.
  • Good luck with the physio Scooby and with your 12 miles tiredgirl - hope it goes well.
  • Hi all, thanks very much for the support.

    Saw fizz and she has basically reiterated all that I am already doing to help the achilles get better, but it's good to know that what I'm doing is correct! She gave me a bit of a hard (ouch) massage and some ultrasound on a swollen tendon, identified that my left quad is way tighter than my right and also dug in deep on my calf muscles (nice!).

    She also thought my arches collapse inwards, which is an interesting part of this puzzle solving, as this was confirmed by a foot scan too. So I have now made an appointment with a podiatrist. Fizz is off road runner who saw this guy for herself and she recommended him to me. So maybe its just getting the right support and then I'll be away!!

    However, fizz does not want me to be away and asked me how important doing Paris was!!! I mean fancy asking a runner such things! So you all know the answer. She didn't TELL me not to run, but basically talked around that.

    I've been looking back at my diary for 2005 and haven't had a good year re: lower legs at all. I rested up many times during that year.

    I know it's mean but it's nice to hear that we've all been there, gives me hope that I might be able to solve this puzzle.

    As for running...........

    Will post again......!

    BNickP, Sammysnail and tiredgirl - best of luck with your lovely long runs (I adore the longer runs!)

    Whichwaynow - I have garmin 201, its great for measuring distnace, but I find the pace monitor a bit unreliable, it tends to jump around a bit.

    And no legs falling off for any of you!

    Thanks for support Mr Bump too.


  • Scoobs - sounds like you are on the right track; your problem can obviously be sorted and by the sound of it you'll have it sorted soonest :-) Take heart from tiredgirl ks's story ... and as regards Paris, from mine (here it is at the risk of boring you all):

    Early last April I was despairing. I couldn't run farther than 16 k (ten miles); my Achilles screamed every moning when i got out of bed; my calves were as tight as h***. And I thought "This can't be right: am I never even going to run another ½ marathon?" I'd dumped Reading because I knew it was hopeless. I'd not entered the Sussex beacons in Feb. I'd DNF'ed in my October marathon at about 12 miles. And now it seemed that there were forumites coming to Copenhagen for the marathon in May ...
    I went down to the basement and found an old pair of retired NB 1020s from the days when i could still run. I picked a route that happened to be 27 k long (about 16 miles) which would take me through a wood I was afraid I'd otherwise never see again. I told myself that I'd run 13 miles and regard that as a great success; I could walk the rest.

    And off I went.

    After 13 miles i was tired but my legs felt OK. So I ran on. And ran the whole way home.
    Slowly but surely. And entered the CPH marathon, which was 7 weeks away.

    My NBs were too beaten up to cope with a marathon and its training. So I went to a specialist sports shop. We tried several shoes on the treadmill; it was amazing to watch the video and see how my heel -- and Achilles -- twisted and turned, sometimes more than others. In the end I settled for Asics Gel Kayano XIs, in which my Achilles tendon hardly wavered throughout the gait cycle.

    Obviously I couldn't gain any speed for CPH. But I put in quite a few miles and aimed for sub 4:15. On the day I got a bit cocky at 20 miles and increased my speed: not sensible on so little training, and I felt various muslces and tendons doing ominous things. The weather also heated up: for the last 6 miles the wayside was littered with collapsed runners.

    I didn't quite get my goal time, but I did it in 4:17 after what was really the most strategically-run marathon I've ever achieved!

    And in those Gel Kayanos I've subsequently completed two very tough marathons.
    I've just retired them - for two new pairs of the same :-)
    The moral of my story: once you get sorted, Paris is well within your sights. And sorted you will get!
    Scooby - well I think that's quite encouraging, you're doing everything right and hopefully this podiatrit will get you back on the road.

    Snaps's tale is so heartwarming - marathon runners don't give up but sometimes the journey is a long one.
  • Snaps - Kayano's rock! I've just ordered two new pairs of last years (XI) partly cos they're purple but also cos I didn't get on with the ones before that. I'm worried about not being able to run if they change the shoes but should be ok for a year or two now.
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • (((LMH)))
    OB for example has sworn by Kayanos for ages now. I don't think they make major changes from year to year. I hope not. I'd hate to spend another couple of years suffering. Life is too short :-) The men's version from the second half of 2005 is a gaudy amber/yellow; the next pairs I buy will be the red ones (XII) when they finally get into the sales :)

    Shades - thanks - how right you are!
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