Sub 3



  • After some advice for a sub-3hr marathon -Running Bhoy. I did 3 08 25secs for edinburgh, struggled badly from 22 miles. ?due to heat. Training went well, thought I may get close to 3hr. Thought EB was a fast course as promoted as 3rd fastest in UK?? Not sure how much effect the heat had.Did FLM in 1994 (308also, but not seriously trained for). Been running more seriously sine October last (dabbled a bit over the years) Now 41. 10km 38m13. 1/2 marathon 85MINS.
    When would you suggest doing another marathon (?under 3 hrs) Have entry for NY (for the experience) and have guarantted for FLM 2007. Any advice appreciated
  • CartmanCartman ✭✭✭
    this is interesting (picked up from another fred)

    sub 35m min 10k schedule for those currently running sub 38 (prob equates to sub 3 marathon sort of level).

    Any thoughts ? at first glance it looks like less miles than I currently do, and I've cut back loads recently anyway, and I'm not sure all those rest days are needed. But also interesting to see it still got its fare share of "easy" running.
  • Dan ADan A ✭✭✭
    AY4 - not sure if I'm the best to offer advice on the subject, but I'd deffo get an October marathon in (either Cardiff or Abingdon) for your serious sub-3 attempt.

    Use NY as a bit of a holiday. I've done NY twice (plus going out again this year), and it is the proud custodian of my two slowest times - no point trying to scientifically analyse it, but if it's any guidance, I did 3.44 at NY, then two weeks later did a 1.21 half!! That said, NY is fkg brilliant - London on steroids.
  • Odeon1085Odeon1085 ✭✭✭
    CM- Just read thread "balance your training with your lifestyle"

    I wanna sub 2.20 but also have a life!

    Still, fully aware not born at the deep end of the gene pool so I'll just have a life instead.

    AY4- Grt time 24-26 beastly. Have added you to list.

    2006 Apr 2:44:20 London JEJ
    2006 Apr 2:44:25 London CY
    2006 Apr 2:46:46 Paris Running Bhoy
    2006 Apr 2:48:43 London B&R
    2006 Apr 2:52:33 London davidt
    2006 Apr 2:52:38 London nigelj
    2006 Apr 2:54:33 London Tmap
    2006 Apr 2:55:23 London OuchOuch
    2005 Oct 2:55:51 Cardiff CRAB
    2006 Apr 2:56:05 London batfink
    2006 Apr 2:56:06 London hilly
    2006 Apr 2:56:24 London Gold Rush
    2006 Apr 2:56:36 London OMFA
    2005 Dec 2:58:18 Luton Cartman
    2006 Apr 2:58:44 London Mrs Tricks
    2006 Apr 2:58:49 London Vassy
    2006 Apr 2:59:10 London ScottyB
    2006 Apr 2:59:36 London Jason Harris 1
    2005 Oct 3:01:54 Cardiff Dull Napoleon
    2006 Jun 3.02.01 Edinburgh Dan A
    2006 Apr 3:03:09 London Bubblecop
    2006 May 3:04:18 Halstead That Boy Sure Is A Running Fool
    2006 Apr 3:06:44 London NL
    2006 Apr 3:06:51 London nichs2
    2005 Oct 3:07:29 Abingdon Gobi
    2006 Jun 3:07:47 Edinburgh goals
    2006 May 3:08:42 Vienna Aitch S
    2006 Jun 3:08:25 Andrew Yates 4
    2006 Apr 3:11:15 London Blisters
    2006 Apr 3:12:47 London NDOW
    2006 Apr 3:15:01 London Impossible is Nothing
    2006 Apr 3:16:31 Rotterdam nrg-b
    2006 Jun 3:19:52 Edinburgh Odeon1085

    Forthcoming Events

    2006 Jun Pennine 100 Dan A
    2006 Jul IMDE Toucan
    2006 Jul 50m Challenge G.R
    2006 Jul IMDE Cartman
    2006 Aug Boddington 50K Gobi
    2006 Aug Hood To Coast (USA) Running Bhoy
    2006 Oct Cardiff NM2
    2006 Oct Cardiff NDOW
    2006 Oct Cardiff CRAB
    2006 Oct Cardiff OuchOuch
    2006 Oct Cardiff WW
    2006 Oct Cardiff Odeon1085
    2006 Oct Abingdon Dull Napoleon
    2006 Oct Abingdon Blisters
    2006 Oct Abingdon Brucey Bonus
    2006 Oct Dublin Cartman
    2006 Oct Dublin CRAB

    Cut and paste Happy at this time of night:

    Goals- 34.45
    NM2- 34.58
    DN - 35:10
    JEJ- 35.14
    Ode- 35.26

  • AY4 Well done on your Edinburgh time.

    The heat probably was a factor but seems to be a bigger issue for some more than others as comments on this fred show. Common consent seems to be you need to do a half in under 1:23 to have a shot at sub3 though there are aerobic monsters who are exceptions to this. If thats not a set up for a Hadd link I don't know what is.

    What sort of mileage where you doing in training and at what pace, and then those with more knowledge than me will be able to offer more thoughts??
  • CM That stuff's complete toilet. I used it two years ago to take me from 47mins 10k to 40mins in 6weeks and it failed by about 3minutes if my memory serves me correctly - managed the first ~4k on target but then the only person I overtook over the next 6k was lying next to an ambulance. Oooh what a numpty I was back in day, 7minutes improvement in 6 weeks - come to think of it the times have improved a bit but not training knowledge, realistic time targets or pacing at the start of races!
  • where is everyone today ? i finally track you down only to find no-one at home.

    not much running to report but penty of sleep deprivation going on.

    what little running i've done has been sign of shin pslints but achiles and PF worse than ever. Got second podiatrist appointment sorted out to mkae a cast of my foot for custom/prescription orthotics (shudders at price) but hopefully this will be a long term solution. Having seen myself run on slo mo video I can now see where all my problems come from.

    my left arch collapses as soon as weight goes on them so my plantar fascia is under a lot of stress, being strained excessivly with every foot plant.

    my right foor is even stranger. quite severe pronation at the rear foot (leading to achiles problems) but with supination at the front due tot he fact that my first 2 toes are lower down than the little 3, leading tot he forefoot being at an angle(i've always felt as though I run on the outside of my feet...but never realised this was coupled with a pronation problem at heelstrike.

    Still feels like orthotics are a bit of a gamble...especially for what they're costing...but the engineer in me is hoping that the cause-effect nature of the problems i've got will be fixed/alleviated by some arch support ont he left and some rearfoot pronation moderation and some forefoot wedges on the right. Fingeres crossed.

    CRAB...are you planning on doing Dublin now then ?
  • d07 Cripes don't become to gait analysis what CM is to cardiology! Sounds fascinating you two will have a blast in Dublin comparing labcoats. Hope the orthotics do the necessary. Good to hear someone trying to do something proactive about their pf rather than banging out the miles and occasionally moaning about it (un)surprisingly not clearing up. Talking of which think I'm gonna give the old ~3mile race a go tomorrow.

    Don't worry Cardiff is the probability while Dublin remains just a possibility.
  • CartmanCartman ✭✭✭
    d07, good to hear from you, and that baby07 is clearly fit and hearlthy. Thats better, things have been a bit weird round here without somebody continually whinging about foot related issues, sounds like you have enough to keep us going for another 12 months !

    seriously though, do hope they clear up. Achilees one is weird cos that usually does clear up with rest, but unfortunately can get irrated quite a lot with Nadding...

    Good luck tomorrow Grab, I say 17:10 on the nose..
  • Hail Hail

    Nah, the CRAB's faster than that, even with PF. I say 16.48. But only if he wears blue shoes.
  • Calm down fellas. It's off road works out about 3.5miles and I haven't broken 20minutes for the fckr yet! PB is 20:23 I think. Shoes will be RED (approx).
  • Crab PB: 20:23
    CM - 17:10
    RB - 16:48
    JEJ - 20:02
  • Crab PB: 20:23
    CM - 17:10
    RB - 16:48
    JEJ - 20:02
    DN - 20.59 Just under 6 min mile pace (in the blistering heat!)

    Someone on here has got be rubbish in hot weather like I am.
  • CartmanCartman ✭✭✭
    no change there then, Crab as usual leaves out a critical piece of info, in this case 0.5 (approx) of a mile..

    my reviewed time is

    Crab PB: 20:23
    CM - 20:15.23 (red shoes), 20:40:78 (blue shoes)
    RB - 16:48.
    JEJ - 20:02
    DN - 20.59 Just under 6 min mile pace (in the blistering heat!)

    slipped out a NAD and a few pubes last night on my long run, felt bloody great, was sweating like a large, over dressed, greek bloke in 40 degree heat, in a non air conditioned kebab shop mind. wombled the first half, and then went near commando the second, ended up doing 17 miles in a smidge under 2 hours..
  • In my defence I only mentioned it as an aside to my continuing battles with pf and now I've got the great and the good (and CM) running a book on the outcome. I will be (slowly) running 10k at lunchtime as a warm up.

    CM How many smidges to the pube?
  • CartmanCartman ✭✭✭
    one sack (approx)
  • so that's 2.1 scrotes in old money.
  • Crab PB: 20:23
    CM - 20:15.23 (red shoes), 20:40:78 (blue shoes)
    RB - 16:48.
    JEJ - 20:02
    DN - 20.59 Just under 6 min mile pace (in the blistering heat!)
    BB - 20:35
  • Hail Hail

    Reserving the right to change my prediction.

    Crab PB: 20:23
    CM - 20:15.23 (red shoes), 20:40:78 (blue shoes)
    RB - 20.30 (red shoes), 19.48 (blue shoes)
    JEJ - 20:02
    DN - 20.59 Just under 6 min mile pace (in the blistering heat!)

    So fellas. Here's a question. After Sunday's exploits, I rested Mon, x-trained 40mins Tues, rested Wed, did 11M @ 7.00s, then 7M @ 8.30s yesterday. The first (morning) session was further than I had intended, but it was a lovely day down by the canal, and I felt good and strong with no after effects. The second was with my coaching group and included a few short, but steep, hill reps. Today was 8M @ 7.30s. During which (and particularly afterwards), my left quad (vastus medialis from what I can work out) is sore. I though it was just some general tightness, but it seems more now. I've got a massage booked for later today. Rest tomorrow. Do I race on Sun? If so, how hard?
  • Gold RushGold Rush ✭✭✭
    R.B- After completing 3x sub 3 marathons in only a few months i think your body is trying to tell you something.....i.e put your bloody feet up and take a bit of a rest.
    I can appreciate that you have little interest in the world cup but cant you think of any other ways to relax:o)
  • Gold RushGold Rush ✭✭✭
    Oh almost forgot

    Crab PB: 20:23
    CM - 20:15.23 (red shoes), 20:40:78 (blue shoes)
    RB - 20.30 (red shoes), 19.48 (blue shoes)
    JEJ - 20:02
    DN - 20.59 Just under 6 min mile pace (in the blistering heat!)
    G.R- 19.55
  • Hail Hail

    Lots of interest in the WC GR, but running IS my relasation. Not to mention my job as well. Also, I've got my American jaunt to train for, although an autumn marathon might be sacrificed.
  • RB WTFTP? I'm with GR and it has sweet (Scottish) FA to do with either the American jaunt or an Autumn marathon.

    So on the basis of my lunchtime womble HR and prof CM's 3.99secs/bpm/mile (approx) equation it looks like the HR will need to ave 170bpm to match the most pessimistic or 176bpm (yikes) to match the most optimistic.
  • RB, rest & ice for 2 days and if it's not painful, race, if it is painful, rest more.
  • Dan ADan A ✭✭✭
    For Christ's sake RB - slacking off is for pansy English footballers only. Will be disappointed if your race is anything less than 100 miles.

    CM - in answer to your earlier post, I've not really been bitten by the GUCR bug yet. Know quite a few ultra guys who have done it (some on more than one occasion), but 145 miles of canals would destroy me mentally as much as physically. Not ruled it out mind.
  • Well hello to the land of the living, as opposed to livid.
    A nice local 5k last night, legs a bit tight to start with.
    1 mile warm up.
    5k race
    2 mile warm down.

    18:46 Not too bad, but no pb.

    First mile was 5:50, and I paid for it in the last mile. Mind you I took 4 places in the last 200m, that WAS satisfying. Well Maxxed at the end.
  • CartmanCartman ✭✭✭
    Pah !! stuck at bloody heathrow again ! I dunno why they bother with bloody plane timetables.. bit like trying to predict marathon times from yassos, just sets unrealistic expectations that get horrible dashed when you are knacked and just want to go home.

    rb, take off those red shoes and put your feet up for gawds sake !!!

    come on crab, spill the beans, what is your time, and most importantly, shoe colour ?
  • i did 3:46 at edinburgh last week, eight months after starting to run. realising that 45mins is a lot to make up, would it be feasible to aim for a sub 3hr marathon next year? possibly FLM if not edinburgh again.

    rb - still cant believe how quick you were at edinburgh considering the heat and hills in the last three miles!
  • Hail Hail

    One hundred and aaaayyyyyytttteeeeeee!!!!!!
  • Hail Hail

    Sorry, couldnt resist.

    Welcome SDW. Big jump to go from 3.46 to sub 3, even taking into account the heat and an undulating edinburgh course. Bang out lots of miles, get an autumn marathon under your belt, and give FLM a bash. Not the flattest course, however.
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