The reason I ask is... I ran a 5.4 mile road race about 8 weeks ago for the club... and because I needed the mileage, I ran to the race which was 5 mile (about 36 minutes)... then within 10 minutes ran the race. 31:24 i did for the 5.4, my fastest ever pacing by a mile...
... makes me think, does a long warm up really do you good? Did the same thing in 2004 at the Flint 10k, warmed up for about half an hour, just slow jogging, and battered my PB and didn't feel weak...
Be interested to see what other people do as warm ups before races! Usually I just do a little stretching and jog a bit, nothing like these two warmups, however, these races I felt great...
Pug
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Your comments have made me think though - On a 10 mile threshold run I often do not comfortably settle in until after about 4 miles - the rest I normally run faster or seems easy in comparison to the first few miles.
When I set my 10k PB (David Lloyd 10k in October) I also ran to the start (about 3 miles) and did the race fully warmed up.
From my experience your theory of a long warm up is correct - will be interesting to see what others think.
However, as 90% of my races are half or full marathons, I doubt the extra 3 miles would do me good overall, so I just use the first 3 miles of the race to warm up.
10Ks or less would be a different matter, but I've only ever done 2 10Ks.
i've done a 5mile race in 30:40 but wouldn't feel confident about havinga little 3-5mile jog before!
I normally roll up with just about the minimum energy required!
be intersting to hear from some mroe people on their times with and without warmup runs
If it's a case on say a 10k, really slow jogging for around 2-3 mile, dead dead easy... then when you start the race you're fully warmed up, these past 2 years could have been wasting alot of potential :-(
Stevie Was it the same you who was losing weight ages ago? And trying to get quicker? We were on a trhead together?
Pug
Speaking as a triathlete, I find I am usually able to run pretty well after getting off my bike, again because I reckon I'm thoroughly warmed up.
Normal convention suggests that a couple of miles easy running plus 4-5 x 100m stride outs is whats needed - for both racing and training. At the start line you should be sweating and your heart rate elevated (60-65% of max).
Two reasons why this rarely happens: At the start of big races you need to get into position - probably waiting 10-15 mins for the off, by which time the efects of the warm up are wasted. Secondly, and more personally, the effect of my nerves before a race are such that I can hardly put one foot infront of the other prior to the start of a race.
If the race is 10m plus, trhen the warm upsn't that crucial, but at 10k and below, if your looking to run well, a decent warm up is essensia.
Interestingly in his book "Running Formula", Daniels suggests that a very vigerous warm up (ie two miles at race pace) is very effective. He suggests that this is woprth trying in a race of little importance - to see if it's effective.
Pug
probably me on a thread to get quicker..definitely not me trying to lose weight!! I'm a skinny enough weasel as it is!
I see you've knocked your 1/2m down to 1hr 21..very nice.
If your 10k and 5k are accurate i'm still just ahead of you there though!
Been training exclusily for the New York Marathon I did last month, so no speed work, just 50 mile per week... so god knows what'll happen tomorrow hahaha
I think I'm in 36:25 ish shape... but depends on the day... I'll be balls out though so, I'll update, but I'll defo be doing around 2-3 miles of warm up.. minimum 2 miles... then strip off, and line up...
The race starts at 11am, so, I'll get there for 10am, register, then stretch etc etc, then from around 10:25am just run until around 10:50am, strip into running gear then go... see what happens.
Be interesting to see what I do... I'll post tomorrow when I get back ;-)
Pug
For my next race I'll certainly be doing a much more extensive warm-up - last road race I did at Caernarfon, I got to the venue too late & only had time for a few strides. Felt very uncomfortable when the race started & this lasted thru to about 6K. Had the same problem, to a more limited extent, in the XC race I did yesterday.
Good luck at Helena Tipping - mind the new slimline you doesn't get blown away ;-)
Running to the local R4L was a very pleasant warm-up. I then had to wait a while, but it was a hot day and I did not congeal.
I have also tried running a couple of miles easy a few hours before the race for a 10k. That seemed to get rid of the worst of the stiffness, which was a big factor for me at that time. I am relatively old though, and it might not be of any use to youngsters.
The real advantage of a mile's warm-up for me is being able to stretch profitably. Stretching my muscles cold is like trying to stretch wood, and I know which end is likely to part first. I do run much better after stretching.
half mara and above is a real struggle for me to get round. I'm not sure it is as effective, but I tend to spend my time before longer races doing pilates or tai chi type warm ups. The latter is in effect a form of stretching under load, so probably does some good given the cold muscles. They feel a little less wooden afterwards.
Stepping on spiky balls before putting trainers on is also a good one. It helps wake my feet up. Somehow sensation in the bottom of my feet and function of glutes are intimately related. (Experience running in Nike Frees over rough ground was a real awakening in every sense of the word.) Even if the race is too long to dare to wear light and unsupportive footwear, starting with lively feet helps supply some kick.
A quick check on upper body flexibility seems to help too. Don't know why. A few minutes calling psoas and other core muscles to attention helps too. Remembering that these muscles can be called on is a great help to survival.
Those who know me know I represent the very slowest class of runner. Some of that though is not just through laziness and a general disinclination to train. I think I've learned a lot through trying to outwit the stiffness and numbness that has made progress difficult.
I guess the most important thing I have learned is that there are lots of things to try. What helps what doesn't is a pretty personal matter. Moreover, there are often several ways to achieve the same effect (eg, glute strengthening exercises, or running on rough ground in thin shoes).
Anyhow, good luck
Hi Mike S!
1). The wind was insane... so blustery, I nearly lost my footing a couple of times...
2). The water we had to run through... think there were 3 main sections of 40ft of water that was what... 1ft deep? Was insane lol... was soaked... and seriously slowed us down.
However, once again, really well organised, superb race with everyone running balls out... so here's my splits:
1 mile = 5:42 (avg HR = 166, max HR = 176)
2 mile = 5:40 (11:22) (avg HR = 177, max HR = 179)
3 mile = 5:48 (17:10) (avg HR = 179, max HR = 182)
4 mile = 6:08 (23:19) (avg HR = 179, max HR = 181)
5 mile = 6:37 (29:57) (avg HR = 179, max HR = 181)
6 mile = 6:26 (36:23) (avg HR = 179, max HR = 180)
Maximum HR = 182
Finished in 37:34
Basically I think that without the water and bad wind... I'd have been looking 35:45 ish? Something like that?
I defo think that the two 2 mile warm ups an hour before the race helped…
1st Warm up…
10:00 am
2 miles
15:35 (7:47/mile)
Avg HR: 156
Max HR: 176
2nd Warm up
10:30am
2 miles
15:04 (7:32/mile
Avg HR: 150
Max HR: 164
As you can see, the average and maximum heart rate in the 2nd warm up are lower, indicating to me that my heart and body are now warming up… I think for a 10k race, 4 mile of warm up is perfect, obviously I suppose it depends what standard you are… but for me, I had a great run considering the conditions!
Pug
I think (not sure exactly what the science is) it takes about 20 mins or so for your body to regulate it's fuel type, glycogen/metabolise fats and settle into a routine of clearing away lactic acid, using oxygen, replenishing energy stores etc.
If you don't warmup prior to a race/training session then you have to do it during the race/session. The chances of you stopping 10 minutes in and establishing pre exercise muscle length (stretch) are slim and the impact on your time major.
Don't overlook the cool down. We're meant to re-establish our muscle length (stretch) as due to constant contaction during exercise they shorten. Personally I don't like post stretching and I know a 50+ yr old who taught over 50's aerobics who complained that post stretching causing bad knee pain that wasn't there if he didn't bother. I would always advocate gradually reducing your heart rate (not sure exactly what the science is)to reduce blood pooling. I think blood sits in our veins/muscles and pools if we don't gradually turn down the pump rate, this causes issues such as varicose veins where it backs up between the one way valves.
But after arriving late at the Thanet 10 mile and having to jog 5 mins to the start, and then setting off about 30 seconds later, I have to say it made a huge difference to nerves, initial pacing, heart rate and also energy levels. So I'm now a convert to the pre-race warm up:-)
I#d have to say, I'm defo warming up alot now before 10k and less runs... I think it makes a major difference, and the 4 mile before my 10k race proves this, look at the first 3-4 mile before the wind kicked in, flying...
Pug
Hi mate, well depends on what you're doing now...
When I was trying to break 40 minutes (and doing 10k's in around 41-42 minutes) I was running around 25 mile per week.
So, if I was you... I'd do the following:
Just make sure you do 22-25 miles per week... now this may or maynot sound like a lot... however it works out at 3.57 per day.
Now, Sunday will be your longer run day of say 7 mile, no more... you need to get your body used to a longer than race run! That leaves you 18 miles to split over day 4 days so I'd say maybe do this?
Monday: Recovery 3 mile plod
Tuesday: Get in a descent quick 3-4 miler
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: 5 mile steady
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 3 mile steady
Sunday:7 mile slow/steady
See how you get on with that,m and slowly increase a coupel of the runs... you dont' need to be doing anymore than 25 miles per week mate to do a 45-46 minute 10k... believe me... just do this for 4-5 weeks and do a race... you'll notice a difference ;-)
Pug
Thanks for the advice.
I've done bugger all speed work in my life, probably about 5-6 sessions in two years which isn't anything, and yet, I can run a 1:21 half and a 2:55 marathon... and yesterday ran at 5:4x pace for the first 3 mile... all without speed work!
Honestly, I'd forget the speed work in that 5 miler and up the miles a bit... but don't do more than 8 on yourSunday run, otherwise it'll tire you for your rest fo the week.
Make sure you have 2 days rest per week...
What's your age and weight?
Pug
Sorry if these are stupid questions.
I read somewhere that the body (liver) stores up to about 2000 calories in glycogen. At marathon pace consumption, 100 calories per mile you'd hit the wall at 20 miles.
Based on 6 miles at 7 min miles (no elevation) and weighing 13st 10lbs you'd consume approx 700 - 800 calories. By my reckoning there's plenty left in the tank for a gentle warm up providing you are used to the mileage.
Pug's advice is good, although personally I feel that I benefit from speedwork. In a typical week I try to do 1 long run (currently 11/12 miles), 1 tempo run (2 - 6 miles), one speedwork session, and 2 easy/recovery runs (3 - 5 miles). That gives me 2 rest days, and I never do 2 "hard" runs on consecutive days. Check the Pace Calculator on this website for the pace you should be aiming at for different run types - although you'll need a current time to base it on.
I think one of Pug's main points was to increas mileage to improve race times, and that's exactly what I'm doing now. I seem to have hit a plateau on race times running about 15 miles a week, so I'm gradually raising the bar to 25 - 30 a week to see if I can step up to the next plateau!
I'm a similar weight to you (well, a few pounds lighter), but I'll be 46 in January, and I'm aiming for a 40 minute 10k and a 1:30 half next year.
Hope this helps!
The race not till june mind so got plenty of time. But once again thanks for the advice.
Thinking about it,it probably works as a second warm-up,but without the usual 10-15 minute break before the race actually starts,which is necessary to get to the start,line up etc (and which probably defeats much of the object).
I have a PB of 45:52 for 10, and really want to break 45 next spring, hopefully getting close to 40.
I've always been 'scared' to warm up too vigourously, even though I know the theory. Sounds daft I know, but it is difficult to get rid of the 'wasting energy' idea.
This thread has given me the confidence to give it a go. So maybe next time I'll be a bit braver. It makes all the difference seeing real figures and knowing that it works in practice. Thanks for posting those splits.
One question. When you are doing your two 2 mile warm ups, what sort of effort are they at? Is it 'conversation pace' or a bit brisker?