Have only recently got back into road running, having dabbled a few years back. On Friday I beat my best time for a treadmill 10k, completing in 36 mins. In a fit of enthusiasm, I went in for the Fairford 10k today - my first road race since about 1998 (one of the great Weston-super-Mare prom runs). Tried to take it not too hard because I didn't know how steep the hills were going to be and came in in a comfortable 44-odd mins, although I don't feel that I could have knocked more than two or three minutes off by starting out faster.
Two questions then:
1) If I can run 36 mins on a treadmill for 10k, should I be able to run 36 mins on the road?
2) Is treadmill training an acceptable substitute (at least partially) for road miles?
I do some ridiculous number of hours at work and training in the office gym is usually more pleasant than running through central London smog, although it does get a bit hot running at that pace for that time with no wind in your face. Also, the top treadmill speed in this gym is 36 min pace so it's not ideal for faster shorter distances.
If I do another (flatter) 10k in the next week or two, I want to know whether I should go out at the treadmill 36 min pace or something more conservative. Would be grateful for all comments and suggestions.
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I do most of my training on the treadmill so I'm probably quite well qualified to answer your questions.
1) The simple answer is no. However, if you can do 36 mins up a 2% incline, I reckon the answer may be yes.
I do my steady runs up a 1% incline which I reckon is slightly easier than the equivalent pace on the road. I think 2% is slightly harder.
2) In my view it's a perfectly acceptable substitute and (for me) a preferable substitute.
My reasons for this are:
a) it's slightly easier on your muscles & joints
b) you can run fast all year round - especially useful in winter - vest & shorts on treadmill vs Arctic gear on the road
c) it helps with discipline and pace judgement - stops you from running too fast or too slowly
d) the 'scenery' is nice down my gym ;-)
I did Fairford as well yesterday and that's not a fast course. At 44 min pace you'll probably run about 80sec quicker over a flatter course for the equivalent effort.
The treadmills in my gym go up to 20km/hr (4.49 a mile) which is about my 5k pace so I use these for hard intervals of 2-5 mins up a 1% or 2% incline). So if you're looking to do faster work on your treadmill you will need to put the incline up to 3 or 4% as it 'only' goes at 36 min pace.
Hope that's useful. Good luck for your next 10k.
Stunters
The treadmill dictates pace for you. Start to tire out on the roads and you can slow without even realising it - do that on a tready and you fall of the back. Which certainly makes it easier to hold a fast pace for longer.
I doubt anyone could run a 10K faster on the roads than they could on a treadmill.
Also, there can be a benefit being shielded in a group of runners during a race.
Finally - sometimes you might get pulled round in a race if you latch onto someone/a group going at a pace that you wouldn't normally match.
I agree that effort-for-effort the treadmill running at 0% incline is easier than road running. But you might go faster still in a race if you had a happy combination of the factors above.
You are right, though, that most of their running is done outdoors. A couple of reasons spring to mind:
1. The really top athletes will do warm weather training and/or altitude training so they are less constrained by climatic factors than the average person
2. Most, if not all, treadmills cannot go fast enough to cater for really short fast work. Equally importantly, you can't just start/stop a treadmill (say if you were doing a really quick series of * x 200m off 1 min recovery) so it's no good for that kind of running.
But for everything else there's little reason why not. Some people suggest that the running styles required are slightly different but I don't find that personally.
As a decent county standard athlete I would say it's a perfectly acceptable and effective means of training. Especially if it's easier to fit it into your day. For me it also means I will stretch, and do a good upper/lower body weights machine workout too. So my power to weight ratio is much better, my muscle tone is better and I think that's a psychological advantage on the start line!
Anyway, I'm glad to hear that treadmills are considered ok to run on - I'll definitely try the 1-2% incline thing.
In terms of running style, I find it easy to drop into a short choppy stride by accident and it's easy to lapse into some horrible hunched posture where running efficiency drops through the floor - I have to consciously check my posture and relaxation as I feel myself tightening up, but that's also good practice for race day. Running tall with a consciously slow cadence is better for maintaining the pace. I often run at a slower cadence at 16kph than people of similar height running alongside at 10-12.
I am not saying there is no place for treadmills, I use them myself on average 3 times a month, its just that I feel you should train on surfaces that you race on, & i've yet to find a race on a treadmill.
sits back and dreams of a 36 min 10k anywhere
I am faster on the road though as I find my running style improves
Oddly I have found that I have suffered fewer running-related injuries since I switched the bulk of my training from road/track to treadmill. This may just be a question of surface though.
I seem to run with a relaxed efficient style. Often I will concentrate on form when doing a steady run on the treadmill - for example, counting strides so that I can increase stride length (without exaggerating the action) whilst maintaining the same speed, or relaxing the face, arms & shoulders, or consciously trying to foot-strike in a particular way.
When I race on the roads I don't have any problems in making the transition in terms of pace or running style.
I'm definitely faster on the treadmill at 0% incline than I am on the road. I reckon I could run a 30.09 10k on the treadmill (20 km/h the whole way plus 9 sec for the treadmill to get up to maximum speed) if I really went for it. My recent best time on the road is 31.14.
I find the treadmill enjoyable to use cos a track speed and distance.
It is also easier on my knees.
so I guess i really dont have any reason to feel bad about doing my training on the treadmill. it is also good for my speed sessions which I have only just started.
When I started my half marathon training schedule i could only manage a 5km in 35 minutes (i know not too fast) but on sunday i clocked my 5km at 28 minutes. not a bad improvement. what do you think? I always set the treadmill to a 1%incline.
evening and running fast along pavements in
the dark is not ideal for me; I think the secret is
to do plenty of roadwork as well so that your
muscles are conditioned to both types of training.
I have never run a treadmill 10k (or 5k) as fast as I can run one outside (36.30).
I would say a lot of it is down to perceived exertion, which for me is less in a race for a given speed than trying to run flat out on your own.
However, I also do long runs on a treadmill with heart rate monitor and outside with GPS/HR. I can run 0.3kph faster outside at same HR than I do on a Startac t/mill.
My gym is quite warm which might make outside easier, but I think it also depends on type of treadmill.
Have previously measured speed and incline of gym treadmills for cross-training competitions, and for example found that one which read 14kph at 10% was actually doing about 12.5kph at 6%. In that instance you will obviously go "faster" inside, but it doesn't translate to reality.
If you want to measure it, (and your gym cooperates with over-competitive
people ;-)), the easiest way is to put a small mark on the tread and on the frame, and then measure the distance that one full revolution takes ( ie back to white mark again). Then, start it up at a given speed, and measure the time it takes to do say 50 revolutions (averages out user reaction time). Then you can work out dist/time to give you actual speed.
Better quality/newer mills will generally be more accurate.
my only other query is unless a treadmill is maintained properly (i.r. the ballasts and rollers frequently cleaned and oiled) it can relatively quickly lose it's ability to measure distance so could give you a faster time than you are doing.
Another factor could be my treadmill pacing is spot on (easy!) and I do a negative split every time. It's much harder on your own to get the balance just right, between pushing too hard early on or leaving it too late.
Another observation: Up to 5k, road is faster (on 2% again), over 5k, the balance switches. Maybe something to do with stride length?
i think JennyD is great, you always seem to have totally looked into the science of running
For example, I completed a recent a half marathon in just over 7.5 minute mile pace and yet running 5 miles on the treadmill in less than 40 minutes requires a really big effort.
Is the reason psychological - boredom, lack of diversions, views, other runners etc. or is it actually harder for some people to run on a treadmill than is made out?
Having said all that, I find there is nothing like a treadmill for intervals and increasing speed generally.
Last year I ran 16kmh for 35 minutes at 4%, the same week I ran 34.20 outside for 10km. If you look on the hillrunner site and look at the treadmill conversion that is within a few seconds.
I love running outside but if I do half my running on a treadmill I don't get injured.
I know what you mean, I got into running several months ago. I got talked into trying a 5k on the treadmill at the gym. After six weeks I managed to get my time down to 20:46 (never got anywhere near it since) I then turn to running on the road following a RW half marathon training plan. After six weeks of running on the road I returned to the gym to try to match or better my PB 5K time. I really struggled to get into it, not sure if it was the heat, boredum or the fact I'd got used to do longer runs at a slower pace, but I was unable to run at a face pace for a sustained period. My current 5k road PB is 23.40.
I have started to get a few aches an pains, sore shins and heels and was considering using the treadmill again, despite my recent experience, to enable me to continue training without making my aches any worse.
I am faster on road. I have been training on a treadmill (1% incline, 30-35 miles per week) for 2 months and my PB on a 5k was 23 minutes, obtained setting the pace at 8 mph (7:30 min per mile).
Since last week I'm on holidays, so I'm running on road and 2 days ago I did 7.8 miles in around 58 minutes, which is nearly exactly the same pace I had for my 5k! It also should be notes that after the 5k on the 'mill, I was really tired and my HR for the last 6-7 minutes was close to 185, while on road my max HR was 174 and the average for the 58 minutes was 162.
I really can't figure how the difference can be so big...