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Sub 3:30 - VLM 2010
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Morning all,
Does anyone know what energy drinks are being given at VLM?
Is it just Lucozade Body Fuel or will there be anything else??
I'm trying to get to grips with a gel/drink re-fuelling strategy, and don't particularly like the Lucozade product, or to be more precise, it doesn't like me !
P.S:- Good 10k time DB.
Hi All,
Just joined runners world, I just wanted to utilise your collective wisdom please,
I'm a marathon first timer currently running 5 times a week with long runs around the 11 mile mark (which I'm steadily increasing each week). My 11 mile run I did on saturday felt comfortable at a 8:03 minute per mile pace, with the last 5 miles under 7:50 and finished feeling strong.
I just wanted to know what marathon time any of you think I should be working and training towards, is sub 3:30 realistic?
I know they always recommend you just aim to finish your first marathon, but I'm very goal orientated and love the challenge of a time.
All comments welcome.
Thanks, Guy
Oompa, I think it's Lucozade sports drink for the VLM. I heard that there will also be Lucozade gels at mile 14 and 21.
Guy, It's difficult to tell what's realistic for your first marathon. I think the reason most people just aim to get round their first marathon is that it's a great unknown. You probably won't run much further than 20 or 22 miles in training and that's fine, most training plans will recommend that. The problem is that come marathon day 20 miles is about half way!!! I ran Edinburgh in 2008 for my first marathon and at 20 miles I was on for about a 3:30 I eventually finished in 3:54. You just don't know how you're going to be in those last 6 miles. If you really needto have a goal then judging by your current training 3:30 might be possible. Just don't get too downhearted if you don't make it.
I ran the planned 4 miles yesterday and like last week it was unintentionally fast. My Tuesday runs are always the first run after my long run at weekends and are meant to form part of the recovery. Rather than run it at a prescribed pace I tend to just start my watch at the start and stop it at the end without looking at it in between. I just run as fast as my legs want to go. Yesterday I covered the 4 miles in 29:52 for just under 7:30/mile pace. Quite happy with that! This morning was 7 miles and again I just decided to let my legs go as fast as they wanted. Slightly slower at 8:15/mile but i'm still happy!
Hope everyone else's training is going well.
Hills last night... 1 M then 10 x 500m reps then 1 M.
As mentioned in previous post's, was looking forward to this session about as much as i was looking forward to contracting lepresy, but in reality.... really enjoyed it and charged up the (very steep) hill leaving my quickest/longest rep until the very last one, so obviously had more left "in the tank".
I'M BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bring on T.Wells half-marathon and the dreaded Fordcombe Hill !
Hi All
Nice to see a few more new names on the forum. Lots of good running going on here.
DB9 - Well done for a great 10K time.
Bambi35 - Hope you're recovering from injury.
Did hills on Monday (on treadmill) and they are just how I remember them...still don't like them (2 bottles of wine on Sunday definitely did not help!!!!). An Easy 5M yesterday was NOT easy. However, did enjoy the 1M warm up/down and 4M@8mph today...except for the blister I have on my left foot. Apart from that everythings going fine.
i am following the run harder, run less plan. i have just realised that non of my long runs are at race pace. only the speed work and tempo runs in mid week.(max 60 mins)
so knowing this, will i still be able to maintain race pace on the day?
here is a link to my plan.
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/runners-world-smartcoach/3057.html?uan=3057&hour=0&mins=44&secs=45&rlen=tenk&rdst=mara&mpwe=16&startf=123xyz&diff=mod&lrdy=0&slen=16&trainstart=ds1262563605271&metr=km
i need to run n 5minute 1kms to make sub 3:30
training is going well, but am i going to make sub 3:30?
Leslie - thanks for the feedback and I'm sure you're correct, everyone says the last 6 miles regardless of training for a first time marathon is a completely different ballgame! Think I will aim my training towards 3:30, but wouldn't be too gutted with anything below 4 hours.
Ian - I'm tempted to ditch my current plan and go for the run harder, run less option. I try to make my long runs at marathon pace, because I always think if I can't run up to 11-12 miles at 8 min per mile how can I expect to run over double that distance at that speed in a couple of months? I'd also be interested to hear what the marathon veterans would advise on this.
Cheers, Guy
Ian/Guy, I'd be quite cautious about running too many miles at or close to your goal marathon pace. Most of the things i've read say that doing that is a sure fire way to get injured.
The theory behind most plans is that you run your long slow runs slower than marathon pace and build up your speed in the shorter sessions. On race day you put the endurance that you've gained from your LSR's together with the speed from the shorter runs and all things being equal you hit your goal time.
I'd be wary of using the 'run less, run harder' plan as well. I got a program from Runners World Smartcoach for the Edinburgh marathon in 2008 which looked very similar to the one that Ian has posted. I ended up getting a couple of injuries which stopped me from training for a couple of weeks which wasn't ideal preparation for my first marathon. My physio said I was probably trying to go too fast and too long at the same time.
I'm following Hal Higdon's intermediate plan for this marathon which has 5 days of running a week and i'm doing a lot more miles than when I was training for Edinburgh but i'm finding it much easier.
Sorry if this seems quite a negative post but it's just my experience of that program.
Hello all.....
Thanks for your comment Gadget Man.... I have been swimming this week but think I am ready for a run tomorrow! I am supposed to be doing the Punchbowl marathon on Sunday... you do either a 20 or 30 mile run/walk...I did one last year and it was just quite a nice way of doing the miles with other people (if the weather is nice)... it will be very slow and just makes a change....
As for the 'what pace should I do for LSRs' issue..... I am no expert (I have only done one marathon, was a sprint hurdler in my hay day, so what do I know about distance) but.... I reckon you should opt for what is comfortable for you...most programmes will say go somewhere between 40 and 60s slower than your marathon pace... and avoiding injury seems to be the main reason for this. Last year I did 22 at 8.02 pace...and and ran London in 3.30..but I also went up to 24 miles which most people would advise against.. I dont look at my watch and just run at whatever feels comfortable...
Anyway Im rambling...hope all is going well... and the London Pride is still flowing!
I don't like hills !!!
Funny, the 9 mile session last night is the same distance as my LSR not so long ago and now I am looking to double it this week. Looking forward to Sunday for a nice steady plod.
Managed 31:25 for tonights 4 Miles (Will have to find a less hilly route next time
)
Anyone using protein shakes to help muscles recover??
Good session last night Jayos, keep it up! I love that bit in your training when you realise that your 'short' runs used to be your long runs. It gives you something tangible to see how far your training has progressed!
I'm not using protein shakes to help my recovery from training. I do however have a Frijj milkshake immediately after every run. The nutritional value of these shakes are in almost the perfect ratio of carbs/protein to help you recover. They're cheaper and they taste better too!
Feeling really lardy
Regards, CK
Jayos - I use Met-Rx Supreme Whey strawberry protein shakes after hard/long sessions for no other reason than i used to use it after a session on the weights (which i now have no time for).
I find that it really speeds up recovery.... still tastes like c**p though !
I'm obviously on the same schedule as you as i did the 1 M/ 4 M threshold/ 1 M session last night, and like you, i did it on a hilly route. However to add to this Mid-Sussex County Council have obviously cut back their spending as i fell down an un-lit hole in roadworks... thankfully uninjured, but obviously not very happy !!!
Welcome back CK.
Stop feeling sorry for yourself... a couple of L.P's and you'll soon be back on track !
My wife and I are doing a "Valentines run" on Sun morn
Took part in club handicap race last night of 4mile and reduced my time further to just under 26mins so again delighted to see the training paying off.
Have a good weekend everyone....
Don't fret CK... you may even find an easier week has done you good. I did 8 miles today and that was my first run this week due to my achilles. Dont try and make up for any lost injury as that can lead to injury.
Good luck to everyone for your long runs this weekends.
Hi All
LSR over with this week. 18M in 2:41hrs. Good up to about 6 miles but lost the plot a bit around 9. Things seemed better again at 14 miles and did the last 2 at target pace. Happy but got a really nice blister on my left foot. If anyone has any instant cures or advice on how to get rid of them etc would be grateful. Never suffered from them before and although have a rest day tomorrow I have an easy 9 miles to do on Sunday.
Hope you all have a good LSR on Sunday for all those doing it.
Read your posts with interest regarding running to close to mp in the LSR as I had wondered why training programs never recommend running at race pace. It is extremely tempting to go at mp and so far I'm about 15s per mile slower than mp in my LSR but after reading your post regarding increasing the likelihood of injury, I'm going to take it slightly easier tomorrow. However, it's Wokingham HM next Sunday and have done a 1hr 39 in training after a previous PB of 1hr 45 so would obviously like to see how fast I can do it but am now wary of the possibility of injuring myself. Any advice from from this board would be most welcome.
We have Liz Yelling coming to our gym next week to give a chat the night before the HM which should be a good evening.
Right off to do a 10K, not quite 7M but more than 5M
Regards, CK
I am doing the Wokingham half next week as well and aiming for 1:37 as per 3:30 marathon training plan so that will be me pretty much fully going for it. I think see how you feel on the day and push a wee bit harder if you are feeling up to it...
I pretty much agree with what has been said before. LSR at a slow pace for endurance and to remain injury free, interval/tempo runs to build up the speed and a taper two weeks before the big day (the taper is probably the hardest part as you just want to get out there and keep running). The races (to be run at race pace) are also important as you get a feel for how you are progressing. Which in turn should build up confidence and if you are new to races gives you the experience of what to expect and what to take (or not take) with you.
I also like Jayos thoughts of a midweek 9 miler that used to be what the 1st weeks LSR was.
Blister now burst. Need to dry it out and harden that skin now before my run tomorrow.
Hi guys,
hope you don't mind me joining in! This'll be my second marathon and following the garmin schedule. Just psyching myself up for 18 miles tomorrow. I did 3.53 at last years FLM, but had knee trouble so am aiming for at least 3.45 but hopefully nearer 3.30........
I've been doing my LSRs at about 8.45-9.00mm, plenty fast enough for me! But i've struggled with the faster intervals at 7mm, and only managed a 46min 10k last weekend (it was 4 laps through a bog though...)
There was a can of London Pride in last years goody bag!
Gadget man, If you can get hold of some specific blister plasters they are great for cushioning and keeping infection out of blisters, would defo recommend them. Going forward would also suggest greasing up any areas of your feet where blister "hot spots" occur.
David Brooks 9 wrote (see)
I'm going to race 10k tomorrow as a quick one, hoping for sub 42.5mins not had the best of weeks though, loads on work & socialwise so my diet and training have been pretty crap. Will see how it goes, also treating myself to a sports massage tomorrow afternoon as well.
Re the comments on protein shakes, I generally have a carb / protein recovery drink after a long run / cycle ride as i find it helps me. Will have this and a small cheese & ham sandwich within 10 mins of getting back as the body is usually in the most receptive state for it then.
Good running to all who have LSRs on tomorrow, hope it's not too cold as there was a bitter wind this morning.
Despite a whole jar of Vaseline, suffered from terrible chafing for most of the way around. Dreading getting into that hot shower
Right must take dog for a walk as he's got his legs crossed and if I dont go know i'll never leave that chair.
Regards, CK
Thanks for the advice Jaffa. Managed to get hold of some Compeed Blister patches which seemed to do the trick. Felt a little hot while running but manage 9 miles this morning without too much discomfort and the weather was quite nice too. Averaged 6.9mph so pleased with that. 47 miles total this week and next week will be the first of the 50+ weeks.
Nice running CK hope everyone elses LSR went OK today.
I bought a Gore windproof jacket yesterday (although a cheaper version at a mere £100!).... it was between that and an addidas one... should have got some advice on here first! Although I did wear it for my 30 mile run/walk today (although became 32 due to a couple of wrong diversions!) and it was very comfy. I was still very sweaty by the end but I did have 4 tops on! For anyone reading this...Im advising how not fo do it... I also bought a new pair of off road trainers yesterday.... for today!... Fortunately I got away with just a couple of blisters and they didnt cause any problem whilst running... more by luck!
I think that most plans will include 'some' miles at marathon pace but they will not be a large part of the weekly mileage. For instance this weekend I did 7 miles at mp on Saturday followed by 15 miles today which I did around 30 seconds per mile slower. The 7 miles represent less than 20% of the total miles for the week.
In terms of races as part of a training program I think there are two distinct approaches to them. The first one is to treat the race as just another training run to be run at the pace recommended by the training program for that day. You may have to add on miles before or after to make it up to the required distance for the day. The benefit is that you get used to the whole 'race day' experience. I must admit i've never done this because I know that as soon as I cross that start line then i'm going for a time!! Which brings me onto the second approach.
The second approach would be to 'race' it, i.e. go for as good a time as you can. I'm doing a half marathon on 21/3/10 and i'm probably going to try for under 1:35 (current pb is 1:38). The program for that weekend has 8miles at mp on the Saturday followed by 13 (slower) on the Sunday. As i'm going to 'race' the half then i'll skip the 8 miles on the Saturday, almost as a mini (really mini!) taper. The benefit of this approach is that you can judge how your training is progressing and can adjust your marathon target accordingly.
I wouldn't like to recommend either of these approaches as they both have their benefits. Whatever suits the individual and their program at that time should be what they choose.
Mornin' all,
Only now able to comment on yesterday's LSR, due to spending most of yesterday smothered in Sudocrem... now i know how babies must feel !
18 M in the snow and sleet meant that i had to wear my New Balance winter tights, so like CK, every step after about 13 miles was agony because of chaffing.
Run itself went well, (18 M in 2hr 38 mins @ 8.48 m/mi) but i don't know where the next 8 miles are going to come from???
On the subject of winter jackets, i use a Nike Microfibre top that whilst not completely waterproof, does a commendable job and yet i don't sweat profusely in it... only cost £30.00 as well, so would highly recommend one.
Hi,
for one reason or another, only managed about 15 miles over three runs last week (2 of which were races) so yesterday was back to LSR of 17 miles after 5 weeks of building up slowly from 13 miles apart from last week.
Anyway, I found the last three of four miles really tough and Oompa I know what you mean about finding the extra miles. Will make sure that I keep my mileage up in the 30s from now on. Gadget man, all those miles you are doing will stand you in very good stead....
Many thanks. I was ideally hoping for 1hr 36 on Sunday but obviously not sure how 'flat out' that is yet. In my RW schedule it has a race this Sunday so my plan is to see where i am at the half way point and then assess the situation.
Oompa, my complete sympathies. Mine wasn't too much of a problem during my LSR however today has been extremely painful as it's raw. Not looking forward to that hill session tomorrow. Will be employing a full tub of Vaseline,
David, maybe catch you at the start line on Sunday, I'll have a 'Children with Leukemia; vest on so if you see me do say hello.
Regards, CK