RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Lol Lake!

    Mr Spoons.   I tried it yesterday and its much harder than it sounds.  I was lucky, the phone rang during the first effort so I just had to answer it....    Let us know how it goes.  I know it sounds like a random thing to add into marathon training but because its a short burst maybe it'll just unlock something.....  Its been suggested that it can  be added onto the end of another session, ie long run.   Why don't you try it a few times then advise the rest of us image!

    I've just discovered a new half marathon in my neck of the woods in March, 3 weeks before London. Perfect.

    Lactate Threshold 8 miles today.  Average 8.19.  I fell just short of the 4 at half MP, clocking them 20 seconds slower than planned.  Erm, I'll blame the hills, ice on the side of the road, dodgy garmin reading.... Oh, and too much wine last night!  image

  • That already sounds hard Minni - 8 miles at 8:19!

    9 x 600m reps for me today done on treadmill at 15.2kph. Feels great when its doe. 600m is my shortest speed session with 16oom reps bing the longest.

    Rest planned tomorrow - with a hangover no doubt and my long run planned for Sunday this week.

    Happy New Year everyone image

  • Minni - well done on your training so far!  My Runner's world schedule sees me doing a megre 31 miles this week..... seems so little compared to others on this forum!  On the plus side - my P&D book arrived today!!  I think Amazon were just being cautious with their estimated delivery date of Jan 4th.  Am looking forward to reading that and trying out their schedule.

    I tried their core stability exercises after my run today, could really feel the muscles being worked.  Am going to add those 3 times a week to my schedule from now on, the way they explain it in P&D, core stability will really help with running efficiency, heres hoping!

     Happy New Year to everyone!

  • Happy New Year evryone! image

    i guess the proper training starts on Tuesday...
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Happy New Year! 

    Kiwi - glad you got the book!  Yes, it seems core strength is the way to a pb... it all sounds so easy when in words!

  • Happy New Year to you all.

    Ahem Mr Spoons.....Some of us have been out for 8 miles @ MP at 7 this morning. Got to keep that spreadsheet tidy! image

    We were away at a party last night so I was able to run somewhere flat for a change which was lovely as I didn't have to think about my pace at all. Very satisfied with an average of 7:56 at this stage.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Great running and dedication CG.

    Just finished New Year's Day party and should manage 5 hours sleep before my 14 miler in the morning.... 

  • Yeah all right CG. You obviously have a greater dedication than me! I managed a walk yesterday and 3.5 miles this morning. OK I know, it's rubbish image
  • I managed a big fat nothing yesterday other than a couple of dog walks!!! Prefer to call it a "rest day"!!

    Well done CG - proper dedication!

    Up and out early today - and did 16.25 ave 8:41 min/mile. Hilly and cold but I am glad its done.

    Good luck Minni today

  • A gentle 13m for me this morning....only 10m/m pace, but I'm easing into the schedule slowly (as you can tell).  Don't want to overdo it (ha ha)
  • Plenty of time to go yet lakeimage

    20 miles for me at 9m/m. Legs were a bit stiff after yesterdays effort and it was freezing.

    How did your non race go Minni? It sounded hard.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Always Aching wrote (see)

    Up and out early today - and did 16.25 ave 8:41 min/mile. Hilly and cold but I am glad its done.

    Another quality run in 8.41.  You lot are Mega!

    caterpillar girl wrote (see)

    20 miles for me at 9m/m. Legs were a bit stiff after yesterdays effort and it was freezing.

    And with an eye infection?  Again MEGA!

    Lake, Mr Spoons -  most training schedules start this week so you're both doing great.

    My run was interesting today.  

    I'd stayed up too late last night, but didn't have too much alcohol.  During my 5 hours in bed I was up three times letting the dog out, who must have eaten something she shouldn't have.   It was bitter cold when we started and the odd bit of snow here and there. We were bussed to the start then ran along the coast for around 14 miles, choosing our own route, to the finish.  Most of it was on beach and coastal paths with only a few short stints on the road.  I seemed to chose the muddiest route!  I got to about 7 miles and was doing about 8.30mm but finding it really hard, when I paired up with a chap from my club.  We ran the rest together (getting slightly lost once).  We chatted all the way and my pace fell slightly, but I wasn't bothered.  Clocked up the 14m in  2hrs10, then continued to do another 2 miles on the sand to get it up to 16.  Average pace 9.23.

    And now for the sofa.....
  • Well done on all the longs runs guys, you are putting me to shame! Minni that sounds like a super tough course, you'll be glad to have that one out of the way!

    Lake I'm with you - easing gentley into the mileage image  - I completed 11 miles at 9m/m at midday, just didn't want to get up when the alarm rang early this morning image  

    1 more day of holidays, then it is back to work, *sigh*

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Mmm, work's going to interfere with the schedule somewhat!
  • I find the only way to get through January (definately the most depressing month) is to be so busy fitting in my running schedule that work is forgotten altogether. 

    I lift my head at the start of Feb and wonder where the time went.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Steve Marathon Coach wrote (see)

    Agree treadmill isn't always easy to run fast on and in the early weeks, hitting the paces isn't too essential. It's in the latter weeks that count. You have months to get fit and faster.

    Running too fast in training isn't recomended - as the others wise words have said, now is just about building endurance - 9 to 10 minute miles is fine for the slower runs and sub-8 for the speedwork - it's the feel and the effort at this stage that matters more than the numbers


    I've copied this from Kryptonites thread regarding the pace of runs.  Encouraging!
  • Morning Everyone, back in the land of sunshine and more importantly internet access!

    Minni: Reading what you have been posting I think that you have already decided that you need to put in more work at a higher pace than you have done in the past, for what its worth I agree completely! Based on my own experience it was only when I started including tempo runs of about 6 -8 miles at 1/2M pace plus speedwork sessions each week that I finally cracked the 3-30 barrier.

    If there are no 10K races around your area then time trials with club mates could be a good substitute, I believe that racing 10K's teaches you to run at a pace and maintain that pace. Speed work is also good for this, if you want to run 8 min / miles consistently for 26 miles you need to know exactly what that pace feels like and be able to hit it without the aid of a garmin or anything else. Of course its also necessary to build in sufficient recovery runs as well into your weekly schedule. 

    As to running your LSR off road on a hilly routes, why not? I do most of my long runs on undulating sand and gravel tracks, hills are your friend! The splits you posted for your most recent marathon show that you slowed towards the end therefore running at race pace for the last section of your long runs will help to teach you how to maintain pace on tired legs.

    I will dig out my copy of P & D tonight and see where you are at, but it seems that your manging to keep to the schedule OK, as someone posted above schedules are written for a reason and this is the base building stage so there is no need to get obsessed about speed yet but also there is a need to keep some speed work in there. For example back in August when I started training for Athens marathon and then Dubai I was running my tempo runs at 4-40 min/K's and my speed work was 6 x 800M at 4-20 min/K off 2 minute recoveries where as now with three weeks to Dubai tempo runs are around 4-20 Min/K and and I tend to do 8 x 1K at 4-00 min/k off 75 second recoveries, progression!

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Welcome back! 

    So far I'm managing the schedule no problem (just started week 4).   I feel suitably tired after a session but have recovered in time for the next.  The real challenge will be in about 6 weeks time when I'm trying to hit 55 miles per week.  I've done this mileage before but usually by including a couple of double days, mainly for the time factor.  However, The Bible says that doubles are not beneficial unless you are running 55+ miles per week.  I can understand this because the aim is the consistent longer runs, but what is your opinion?  I used to do a 5 in the morning followed by a harder 5 in the evening. 

    Off road hills - Would I adjust the mileage to account for the hills.  For example, a 15 mile road run would be easier and much quicker than a 15 mile run in the hills around here.  Therefore, would I run for 2hrs15 in the hills and not worry too much about the time and pace? Or, concentrate on still running the 15 miles but accept it will take much longer.

    What time are you aiming for in Dubai?  It must be really hard to run in that heat! 

  • Just checking that we are all alive in here .......... and then I see that Dave is back in a few degrees warmer than we are as I sit here under a sleeping bag with fingerless gloves on !

    Happy training   image
  • There is nothing wrong with being under a bridge

    damn, we have been outposted by an Asics Sixer  image
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Hi M & KK!  Thanks for popping in!  I'm trying hard to stay off the wine and on target.  Ooops, I've had a couple of glasses tonight....

    8.7 for me tonight with an average of 8.57.  Did my 10x 100m strides as pushing on up the hills. image Followed by aforementioned wine.... 

  • I'm on a traditional January 4th break from the booze. It usually lasts around a week, but I have a half mara next weekend so hopefully it might last 2 weeks this year image
  • Knackered here, after having to get up early for work! Managed a steady 7 miles, would be nice if it wasn't so dark out!
  • Morning

    My staying off the booze once I was back in Dubai lasted 27 hours, though surely one small G & T isn't really alcohol? Mind you the second one was larger!

    Doubles: Clearly there is more benefit in doing your long runs in a single run, however if you are truely stuck for time then I believe that there is a benefit in using doubles to hit the mileage though I would do the hard run in the morning and the recovery in the evening.  I have used doubles extensively in the past when Ultra training but my weekly mileage was in the 75 MPW + area.  If possible I would try to find the time to do the 10 miles in one run, have no idea with regard to your work / family / life commitments but i find that silly oclock is the time!

    As to running in the hills  / on road it comes down to whether you train by miles or hours, traditionally I trained by miles but since becoming (well at least attempting) a Triathlete I have started training by Hours, a one hour run is just that regardless of how far I go. So i think the answer to your question is dependent on which mindset you are working with, if you can accept that 2hours 30 minutes in the hills will give you less distance than on the road go with it, if your stuck on mileage targets your going to be out there longer!

    I'm hoping for a sub 3-30 in Dubai but would not stake my house on it as I have rarely run more than 35 miles a week since last April as I was sick / injured and then Triathlon training, However my latest 1/2M was 1-32 which is 5 minutes quicker than it was prior to my last sub 3-30 marathon, I also PB'd at 10 miles so its going to boil down to whether my endurance is good enough on the basis of a lot of cross training.  Its not so hot here at the moment 25C in teh day, 15C at night pleasant!

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Mr Spoons - which half are you doing? Are you hopeful of a pb?

    kiwi - the dark is a pain.  My run last night was done by torch light and its a pain.  The roads here are churned up with the frost and ice and its hard to see pot holes.  Roll on the spring.....

    Dave - I'm off for a 5 mile recovery now but will post again on my return.... 

  • I'm ill image Nasty cough that has hit my chest and won't go away. Seems like everyone has had it or got it. Normally passes me by but not this time.

    I was so bad yesterday I couldn't even manage a glass of wine!!!!

    Might try and do a gentle 5 miles in the morning - I'm climbing the walls....

    Well done everyone else

  • Always Aching wrote (see)

    I was so bad yesterday I couldn't even manage a glass of wine!!!

     That is ill!image

    Minni - Your run on Sunday sounds lovely.

    I'm fed up of running in the dark again already. Rainy and windy today too.

    Did a 5 x 1km session yesterday and a couple of easy runs today and Monday. Last early morning run  of the week tomorrow, thank goodness!

  • Yup, roll on spring, am waiting to trip over in the dark after 2 weeks of daytime running over the hols. Did 5 miles recovery tonight in the rain.
    On a different not - does anyone use compression socks? Have bought a couple of pairs, worried about my shins with the increasing milage, way back when in my netball playing days i had bad shin splints. If you do wear compression socks, do you wear them on all your runs? Time for a big bowl of pasta!
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