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cheers folks most kind, got back from cricket 30 mins ago. Must be getting old cos I made myself acup of tea..............I'll drink that and then have a beer !
A lovely morning for a run dampened by the sad news I just received this morning that my oldest client John Scott, aged 71 died of a massive heart attack whilst out celebrating London Scottish promotion last weekend. He apparently never regained consciousness in hospital and passed away on thursday. Sad sad news
but atleast he died having witness something special to him.
I was always worried about the risk of something like this because his weight/shape/age was classic heart attack material but I'd like to think the limited training he did with me in the gym atleast did something to improve his health and I know he enjoyed the stuff we did on the bike and rower.
Beautiful morning after a frustrating 0-0 draw. Plenty of chances not taken by Reading!
RS - sorry to hear that, but at least he went out quickly and was happy at the time.
51M bike/2M run bagged, just to make sure I can still run off the bike, the answer was yes cos the 2nd mile was a 6:25. The cricket club need a 2nd responsible adult in the 4th team with all the teenagers today, they cant find one so I have to play a 42 over per side game ! Was supposed to be putting my new wheels on and bagging a sea swim too.
RS Sad news, but there are a lot worse ways to go than that. I'd be pretty happy to go with that score in those circumstances.
Thought I'd just pop in to say I'm still operational, but struggling to get back to enjoying my running again. Just completed only my third run since VLM today. One of those was an orienteering competition with my 14 year old son in our local park. Very surprised to find out that we'd won it. Clearly the endless hours I've spent zigzagging around the park for my marathon training paid off in the end.
Still down to do Abingdon, but will pull the plug if the motivation doesn't return soon.
Back to lurking.
Dull
Really sorry to hear that RS. As others have said, there are worse ways to go though?
Joyous 11 miler on the North Downs Way this morning without a cloud in the sky. No ITB pain at all - that's two in a row! All the massaging and easy pace seems to be working. Berlin here I come
Belated many happy returns, TR!
I would be on the beerio now but I haven't deserved it, so I have a nice mug of tea. I've just a totally rubbish race -- I fear I ignored Marigold's advice and was a bit $h!t !
It was the Cambs county championships 5000m. It was obvious from the outset that we were going to be thin on the ground, and I was a bit troubled to find the only 3 runners I met beforehand I all knew to be quicker than me. The ones I didn't know were fit young things from the Uni... Scores on the doors: 7th out of 7, and I was lapped (just). I was only about 10 sec quicker than my solo, off-road, twisty parkrun last week, the last mile of which involved dodging back markers wearing headphones and the odd man and his dog. 16:50 ish today; last year I did 16:16.5 on the same track. OK, it was rather windy today, but still. I know I went too quick for the first lap or two (about 5 min/M); I know I'm 2 or 3 lb heavier than on VLM day; but my calf muscles are telling me I gave it all my beans. Speaking of which, maybe the hearty plate of beans on toast at lunchtime was a mistake -- I'm not used to racing at the end of the afternoon.
Should maybe do an LSR tomorrow as consolation -- stick with what you know, etc...
Hail Hail
RS - sad news but sounds like a hell of a way to go.
TR - tea? Tea?!? FFS! Most disappointed.
Local 10k for me ahead of Edinburgh. Pretty windy, reasonably hilly. Slow start, 10th at 2k, and pushed on to 4th at 4k from where it was a solo effort. 36.13 which sounds slow but I was pleased to beat (by over 1 min) a local rival who usually beats me and just ran 2.44 at London. I'd like to say it bodes well, but it means nothing til I've done it next Sunday.
Eurovision anybody?
RB - smart racing! Well done.....
CW - I sometimes also find it tough racing at odd times.
I'm enjoying following my training partner's 24hr race, with live updates per lap. After 5:53 he has done 35 laps and 70k. Currently leading by 2k. Only another 18hr of running to go FFS!
My first ever parkrun in Hull today and thought it was great. My kids loved playing in the playground and there is a nice little zoo area there. I had a fairly rubbish run (16.51) and got taken down by one of my year 11 students in the last 100m but really enjoyed it. Nice to meet BR and Hilly there.
CW - My weight has risen since VLM and I am convinced it is costing me loads over the shorter distances. I am going to have to make a real effort to loose the 4 or 5 kilos and if that does not get me back to my old times I am going to have to start looking for new excuses.
RB - nice 10k, any particular target in mind for next weekend?
RWH - glad the ITB has eased
Jools - 0-0 whats was the match like?
Dull - orienteering sounds like "intelligent running" haha something I'd be useless at!. Incidentally Harringey council have announced that unless a group takes on responsibility of Finsbury Park track the venue will be closed fairly soon. Think Heathside are looking at options of a joint venure with American football team London Blitiz. Be a shame if it goes though.
Cheers re comments re the old fella. Agreed if thats how he went out, then it was certainly a great way to go. Rubgy and more to the point Scottish rugby was in his blood. Feel very sorry for his Son though as he lost the Mother at a young age too.
Lots of cross training in the gym this week and a couple of easying runs last couple of days inc today has shifted my minor niggle. Off down the river tomorrow from Putney Bridge to Hampton court with a mate for an easy long run.
Matt and <b?SL: hope you have good runs at the 10k. I've got to shoot off afterwards as I need to get to a rehearsal which starts at 10am.
If anyone isn't racing or training this morning the Manchester 10k is on BB2 at 10am. Chris Thompson is running amongst a host of Elite Afleets.
Good luck Jools & MTR.
morning morning. watched that race thanks Wardi!
Hope todays racers go/went well.... RB nice work in the 10km, best of luck next week, sounds like you coudl be on for a stormer! CW - tough luck, but you normally race really well, the odd bad one will no doubt make u come back stronger! Nice brickagge TR - how did the cricket go. Keep at it Dull!! good news on the ITB RWH - my trouble lasted almost a year with that!
I took Friday off running (and half day off work) and played golf. Lovely day (and i played well so happy days!). The timing of the break from running was good really because i was heading for my biggest running week since September last year, and my hip injury was starting to niggle a bit.
Yesterday, set off for a long run with my friend, and did 9 miles at 7:54m/m pace - then chucked in 4 miles of marathon effort, and then continued on and left my mate but dropped back the effort a little bit, overall managed 10 miles at 6:52m/m pace, and then a mile and a bit cool down. total score was 20.2 miles in 2:28:40 - very happy with that. Bit sore today, but definitely getting some fitness back
. Made 70 miles for the week with 2 rest days (counting today). 6 weeks in a row of decent training done and feel like i am back into it now.
Saw SL before and after and spotted Jools legging it off after the finish
Selbs: sounds like you're back to fitness with that run...nice.
MtR: sorry you didn't get the time you were after; do you think all the cycling may have had an effect?
TR: nice couple of miles off the bike there.
Jools: hope it went well for you.
jamesito: Park run is a great event; just started this year in Poole and the atmosphere is nice. I ran the Poole one yesterday with a 1sec pb (37:43). The course was about 3-4 secs longer due to a big skip being in the way on the corner of the lake and it was pretty windy in places.
Lovely weather for our run over the Purbecks this morning. 13 miles ave pace 7.22 inc the climb up 'Nine Barrow' so brisk enough for me. Wonder how CJ's getting on in his first tri today.
Looks like a busy day of racing for the thread.
Well done RB, unlucky Matt.
How did Jools do ?
I shall do some running later
RB excellent 10k racing: time looks pretty damned good to me!
CW – blimey, some stiff competition there. But you can smack them over a marathon.
Jamesito – nice parkrun.
Selbs – excellent training week. Top marathon stuff.
MtR – Sounds like just a bit of an off day. It's still only 4 weeks since VLM ...
Mr Boat – nice one
Controversial opinion on weight coming up here (and not what you might expect)! For those of you worrying about weight, Fitzgerald has something to say. I have no doubt that getting to optimal racing weight assists a marathon pb, although probably less than shorter distances. Assuming for a moment that VLM was run at your optimal racing weight then you cannot expect to maintain that weight for the next 48 weeks through to the next VLM. If you do you’ll most likely get injured. We need to cut our bodies some slack. I know this might seem like pot calling kettle black, but it’s something I feel I’ve learned the hard way the past 2 years. For some of you young whipper-snappers on here this probably doesn’t count, but for coffin-dodgers like me I reckon I can only safely maintain optimal racing weight for 2 x 3 months a year. The rest of the time it not only doesn’t matter if there are a handful of lbs over, it’s a way of ensuring my body is not getting an absolute pounding.
Dunno. Might be talking tosh, and I may contradict it by posting about weight loss! But I know I can only really get serious about that for 2 x 12 week marathon campaigns or my body will simply break down. So this is now the season for me to eat, drink and run without worrying too much about it.
17 miles for me, gradually progressive to bring up 68m for the week. Apart from Monday and the last 3 miles today it was all easy pace. Was pleased to open up the throttle into sub-3 territory at the end today. No ITB pain at all.
RWH> But you can smack them over a marathon.
Actually I recognised one university chap from the champs start of VLM -- he beat me there by 3 mins! John Herbert, my unbeatable V40 arch nemesis, was there yesterday too; he did 2:38 or something last year in VLM. Impressive miles by the way -- are you building up to something specific? On the weight front, I was just as heavy last week when I did OK in the parkrun, come to think of it.
Glad to hear you're getting back into things nicely selbs.
Mr Boat -- have you got a 10k parkrun then, instead of the standard 5k?
Sorry you also had a bit of racing disappointment MtR.
I had a very satisfactory old-school LSR today. I figured out a nice loop covering new places to explore; bit longer than I'd normally do out of a specific campaign, but it's probably no bad thing to keep the endurance adaptations tickled now and then. 24.5M @ 7:30/M average, mainly off-road, though mainly good surfaces (one slow patch for a couple of miles). Outbound on a Roman road, return trip on a Saxon earthwork.
And now to respond to PMJ. Others might enjoy the debate of these points
I’m very flattered you asked if I had any advice. You’re probably humouring me, but in case you’re not here are some random thoughts. Remember that I’m coached so to an extent I just do what I’m told! I also don't think one size fits all, as amply proved on this thread. There's such a variety of approaches from successful people on here that it's sometimes difficult to pick unifying themes. So what I'm posting has worked for me, a 47-year old with a limited history of serious running.
1. LSR’s are the most important part of training and you should aim to do 9 or 10 x 21 milers. 21m is a better staple length than 20m. Personally I no longer think very much of progressive or Fast Finish Long Runs (despite today!). As no-one ever does a massive negative split they don’t replicate marathon running, and they don’t serve the greatest purpose. Runs which contain speed sections of various types earlier in the run are much more useful so that you get used to running the last 5-10 miles off no reserves: that trains your body to dig deep, and digging deep into the body's training is what counts.
2. Midweek runs, including speedwork are also vital. Longish runs of 8-14 miles with sustained speed e.g. 6 miles on a track at 10k pace after running 8 miles is a hell of a good session.
3. I didn’t do any doubles to speak of. Although I will do so now, I still want to get 70-80mpw off single runs and only use doubles to supplement that base, not replace it.
4. For the first three months I built up incredibly carefully. I took a few more risks later but early on I was ultra cautious (not quite Gobi-esque, but almost).
5. There’s nothing wrong with a rest day. We probably obsess about the 7-day week, but a rest day every 10-14 days might be very wise for many of us. Alternatively really slow 4m or 5m runs probably work as well.
6. I did a lot of my recovery runs on the treadmill, and I ran a lot of recovery runs slowly: 8mm or 8’30mm. Mixing surfaces, and running recovery runs slowly worked for me.
CW blimey you really did have some stiff competition then yesterday
I take that back! Flipping nice one from you today: wow that's a serious distance!! I'm just wanting to get some solid 70ish mile weeks under my belt as I approach the 12 week build up to Berlin. The next proper race for me is in 4 weeks: the Ruby Run HM in Devon. I'll taper for it. Then it will be all systems go for Berlin with an attempt at a HM pb in the build up.
By the way, re my weight post Fitzgerald basically says that for short-distance racers the summer = optimal racing weight, and you cut your body the slack through the winter.
I'm wondering increasingly whether it's actually possible to train successfully for two marathons and shorter races in the same year? Kind of ties in with what others posted a day or two back ...
RW-H, thanks for the reply. My question was asked in all honesty. I was on the powerof10 and it said I was ranked 87 for my age group. I followed the link and started to page up to see what was above me. Stratford was a bit windy and a bit hilly so I reckon combined together they were worth a couple of minutes so when I race London next year and the weather is still and cool I think par from this year would be 2:55 so an aspirational target is 2:50. There is a cluster of people with 2:50.xx and with the slightly unusal hyphenated surname I immediately made the connection to you on this thread.
Your advice seems to line up with a lot of what I did but can I pick your mind and that of the thread a bit more.
LSRs: You say 9 or 10 @ 21 miles, over what period is this? I did a 16 week campaign this year so with a 3 week taper that leaves 13 weeks for 9 LSR. This time it took me far too long to get upto a resonable distance so next time I will start longer runs inthe base build up so I an start LSR at this sort of distance. I like the fact that they don;t have to get faster. I tried LSR with a 5k parkrun at the start and at the end and the parkrun was much better beforehand and the whole session felt much better: having emptied the tank in parkrun it seemed to be much more akin to the marathon than doing the speed at the end. What is your feeling on racing 20 miles during the campaign? I am starting to doubt the benefit of a half marathon except that it is a thing to do in a short week but the conversion to full is so variable it gives little clue.
MLR: I agree vital and this is one bit I was happy with, I soon got into a 15 mile MLR and I will pick up on the faster back part.
Rest day: I cannot afford too much weekend tiem but can find midweek time so I only run one of the days at the weekend and the other is always a rest day. If I do an LSR at the weekend after efforts on Tuesdat and Thursday, is Saturday or Sunday a better day for the LSR?
Pretty much decided now that my big canal race will be the 5th consecutive DNS of the season Expensive business being injured!! Refocus on the summer.
Will be in Edinburgh next week but supporting the missus. RB will give you a shout in the week - nice 10k btw.
Had a chat with BEJ in the park as well today. Good day for running. Not for standing idle.
CW - use it as a marker and inpiration to push on, then its not so bad.
RB - nice one, hope it does bode well.
Jamesito - give him detention !
MtR - shame about the missing 60 secs, but you didnt focus on it as an A race. You'll be loads quicker next time.
Selbs - nice LSR there, nice to see you back to it. 10 av 6:52 bodes well. We got mashed in the cricket, I ached all over from throwing myself around in the field for 42 overs and then all teh kids failed me cos I ghad to bat, but got run out at the non strikers end when one of em called me for a two and I set off at my usual (run starting) 8 m/m pace
MrB - nice one on the PB (just)
RWh - agreed on the weight thing, we've been saying that for a while. Train heavy and then get doen to racing weight for teh A race only. Mind you I dont wtach my weight and rarely weigh myself.
DanA - sorry about the DNS.
43M on the bike bagged earlier. happy with that cos I've bagged 4 rides of between 41 and 51M in the last 7 days, and did 5 swims for a total of 10K. Put the new wheels on the bike thsi afternoon but then got in trouble cos I still had chores to do, so the wettie isnt going to get wet until next Sunday (when it has a number on it).