Running with depression

Hi I'm trying to help my sister who has been diagnosed with severe depression but it has been a long time coming she has not been well for over 2 years.

I spoke to her on Monday and we both signed up for a 10km on March 3, my sister was happy to do this but I need some advice how to handle training her I don't want to push too hard but I'm going to need to if we are to finish the 10km. I've been running for many years, but I have no idea how to train my sister under the circumstances.

Any help, ideas and advice welcome

Thanks

Gareth 

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Comments

  • You're a great brother Gareth. Running and exercise are great anti-depressants. How fit is your sister now? I'd focus more on her fitness than her mental health in terms of making a plan for the race. Why do you think you'll need to push her hard for you to complete the 10k? Is there a time limit?
  • No she's not fit at all and she is quite over weight, which for me i'm not a doctor but is part of the problem, emotional eating.

    No limit on time as she has been signed off work.

    Cheers for your reply Little Ninja

  • Good luck to you - hopefully running will help, even if only a little.

    My suggestion would be to take everything in small amounts.  If she has not been running before, then I'd suggest a gradual warm up, maybe 20mins at a time, 2 or 3 times a week, running, walk/run, whatever she can manage.   Then, if she takes to that and hopefully starts to feel better, you could look at a 10k plan.

    It's difficult to know at this stage whether a structure would help her or cause her stress if she has to do something on one day, but can't - from experience of supporting people with depression, I've found that giving them a structure and gently nudging them to follow it helped them, as you're taking away the need for them to make a decision, which they're possibly not able to at the time.

  • Well the first thing she needs (as you know) are good shoes and a decent sports bra. If she's not fit at all, she'd realistically have to start a 10k program at the beginning of January.  Is that going to be doable for her? If she's not fit at all, there's a lot of Couch to 5k programs over 9/10 weeks and there's normally a few threads on the go in the beginners section on the forum that may be better for her to begin with. NHS C25K   Also look out for the free parkruns in your area too. You could look at the finishing times of the last people to get some idea of what the course/race is like. 

    Structure is a good thing for me, and getting her to go out whether she 'feels like it or not' could be good for her. Obviously the better she eats the easier her training will be but don't encourage her to make too many changes at once. One thing at a time image 

  • The same as any other beginner but with a few extra things to remember:

    1)if she's been put on medication she might start to feel worse before she gets better - normally 2-3 weeks so don't push her if she doesn't feel like it

    2)encourage her to run in daylight whenever possible - it can be hard enough to get out of bed some days with depression without the added pressure of an early run.


    3) get a beginners schedule off here but don't follow it religiously - i.e. if it takes 3 weeks to reach a point that says 2 weeks on the plan it doesn't matter - the time on feet/distance goal shouldn't be attached to a date at first as if she misses it it will feel like failure - break each bit down use each one as a goal/target achieved.

    4)if you're going with her be prepared to walk alot! If you're not going with her either ask around to see if there's a local womens running group or run with her 'virtually' giving encouragement online or by phone.

    5) finally - please don't refer to the process as 'training her' - you're helping her train for a race. You're advising and encouraging her but she's doing all the work - we train dogs to obey etc, you're just helping your sister and every word you say to her should be positive encouragement. I don't mean to be rude but think about how it sounds if you say to someone that you're training her.
  • Gareth great thing you are doing but have to handle it carefully

    My Mrs FRC (forum name is fit running cat usually) has lost 9 stone over the last 18 months till about may this year... lot of it emotional , comfort eating etc, and lot of depression.

    She is also counselling people now, and comes out with me running 1-2 times a week, also to gym classes. After a tough day, she loves to go running to clear her head

    I'll see if she has advice.. she has been meaning to join RW too

    If your sisters agreed its a good start though.. just take it slow

    Walk first, little bit of run later
  • I throughly recommend the NHS Couch to 5K plan, already mentioned above.  It builds up gradually over the weeks (and you can repeat a run or a week if needed), after each walk/run you really feel you have achieved something and it's a confidence booster,  The girl who does the voice over on the podcasts is encouraging, the music isn't great, but bearable.

     Exercise is great at helping deal with depression and getting out in the daylight is also a help esp at this dark time of year.  Good luck!

  • Like above for the structure and start off slow but made sure you don't put a big amount of etherise on the dates for the training program. While it's important to have a training guide if your sister miss's training run's or is to depressed to get out there she might lose heart.

    Also whenever possible do all the training with her or sign up a few friends who can help. If she's in a position where she's expecting herself to do some of it on her own at first she might not do it. If she's with someone else it's going to be both a motivation tool and also a good way to get her interacting with other people.

    I'm assuming in terms of speed you are a lot faster than her at the moment. Whatever you do make sure that you are always going at her pace. If you go to quick and she can't keep up she will also lack motivation and might give up. When it goes well make sure you make a big deal off it without going overboard and try not to make to much when it goes badly and regardless of who's doing whatever training guide something always goes wrong at some point.

    If you can keep a log off what running she's going and don't make a big deal of it while you’re doing it. Once there is improvement over a period off time with her running point it out so she has something that show's she's getting better. Confidence with depression is always linked and if she can see something that can give confidence it will help long term. What ever you do don't start going WOW look at that if it's just one run the next one might not be as good and that will be viewed by her as a failer. 

    If she gets self deprecating about how fast she is compared to others which is common just tell her "time is irreviant achievement is permanent." 

    Edited for spelling

  • Agree with the great advice on here so far. Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but in a lot of areas people on certain disability benefits because of mental health or in contact with a community mental health team qualify for free or subsidised access to council leisure services, or even exercise on prescription where they can get a bit of personal trainer support too - I don't know how she'd feel about a gym, but free swimming etc might be useful for her to build up general fitness alongside a 10K running plan. Some of the stuff these programmes offer - swimming, pilates etc can be great for relaxation too and help with anxiety too.

    +1 for avoiding early morning, medications and depression itself can make functioning in the morning very difficult for people with depression (afternoon and early evening are generally better in terms of mood for people with depression). As sunluvva says there is good evidence for sunlight having an effect on mood so I'd go for that if you can.

    Also when designing a programme if you can go for very small, stepwise achievable goals, and split bigger goals into small component parts. People suffering with depression can struggle to maintain motivation and find it very hard to cope with perceived failure so avoid creating such a situation if you can. Structure is good but it needs to be flexible and responsive to the reality of severe depression.

    The social element of running can be really useful for mental health too, whether it's meeting a personal trainer at a gym or eventually joining a jogging group structured social contact can have added benefits to those solely created by physical activity.  

    Good luck to both of you.

  • Hmm. I wouldn't necessarily rule out mornings straight away. I am a morning person and me being out there first thing is the absolutely best way for me to start the day. It's much more peaceful too.

    I hope your sister has some support/counselling too Gareth. livinglifetothefull.com is well worth a look. 

  • Rosie A wrote (see)

     (afternoon and early evening are generally better in terms of mood for people with depression).


    I'd disagree with that.  With regard to those that I'm involved with, mornings are better as by the time the afternoon / evening comes around, they've had so much stress dealing with the people they've come across during the day, that the evenings can be meltdown time.  There's also the timing of medication, in our case, early am meds mean that mornings are best as the meds are at their most effective.  As the days goes on and the effect wears off, the mood dips.

    It's very much an individual thing, so you and your sister will have to work out what suits her best.  As long as you can be flexible, I'm sure you'll be able to sort something out.

  • Ninja a lot of folks with depression also have insomnia and related problems. Early mornings are a good think in general (can't believe I've said that for folks that know meimage) but if the person is struggling with that then a early morning run or even a morning run will be off putting to them and make it harder for them to get into a routine.

    Also if they have hearlth issue's and poor fitness there body won't be warmed up and they are more likely to get injured from cold muscles. Really good guide for all of this if your old like me is Red Drawf if you can remember it? Rimmer used to set himself high targets and them do nothing after not reaching them. Even if the person is well up for training play softly with any training guide and fit it around them.

    Something else that might be an issue is are they ok with going out to places with a lot of people there? If your sister has a image issue which they may have with the comform eating they may get put off with running in public and not say. Best to start out running if you can somewhere quite.

  • Jeepers in a Winter Wonderland wrote (see)
    Rosie A wrote (see)

     (afternoon and early evening are generally better in terms of mood for people with depression).


    I'd disagree with that.  With regard to those that I'm involved with, mornings are better as by the time the afternoon / evening comes around, they've had so much stress dealing with the people they've come across during the day, that the evenings can be meltdown time.  There's also the timing of medication, in our case, early am meds mean that mornings are best as the meds are at their most effective.  As the days goes on and the effect wears off, the mood dips.

    It's very much an individual thing, so you and your sister will have to work out what suits her best.  As long as you can be flexible, I'm sure you'll be able to sort something out.


    Jeepers makes a good point. The clinical descriptions of depression have mornings as the worst time but once you factor in the complex realities of the way people with mental health get treated by society and all the different sorts and timings of medication it can be really variable. As Jeepers says, what suits her may not be what you'd expect from theory.

    I don't know if she feels up to it but one other thing I was wondering was if you could include her in designing training schedules and plans. So often people experiencing poor mental health, especially if they are caught up in 'the system' of care and treatment feel they have very little contriol over their lives. Even the ability to exercise control over small decisions is thought to help with stress and mental health, so if she can be involved in the planning, support her to be as much as possible?

  • I'd recommend Melatonin for sleeping problems, if GP's will prescribe it.  I think that the standard issue now is the slow release, but as Cake says, insomnia is a real problem with depression and can be a side-effect of meds - double whammy.

    Off topic, but just something that occurred to me in case anyone's interested.

  • Cake wrote (see)

    Ninja a lot of folks with depression also have insomnia and related problems. Early mornings are a good think in general (can't believe I've said that for folks that know meimage) but if the person is struggling with that then a early morning run or even a morning run will be off putting to them and make it harder for them to get into a routine.

    Also if they have hearlth issue's and poor fitness there body won't be warmed up and they are more likely to get injured from cold muscles.

    It's a good point about the cold muscles Cake but it depends on what Gareth's sister is doing the rest of the day. If she is at home/staying in bed, then an earlier start to the day may help to reset that insomnia cycle as well as get her moving about. Also, as we all know, ADs effect people in different ways and while for some it may cause sleepiness, others may be more alert.
  • For the suport with other people with depresion issue's there are threads both on here and on fetch for people with similar issue's I think the one on RW is called running with depresion? and one of the main ones on fetch is this one. Slight cation is that these are open to anyone and sometimes if there are depresion issue's people can tend to get heated up and start throwing there toys out of the pram but this is very rare.

    There are loads of organisations out there that deal with depresion issue's but most suffer from a lack of PR in the local area's If you put where you are in the UK and depending where you are you might find that someone puts up some information thats relivent to the area. Let me put it this way one about 10 people have posted but over 200 have looked at the thread. I bet there are a few lurkers out there who might post a group thats useful if they are nearby.

  • Fare point little N and agree completely about re-setting the clock with sleep issue's but if it is a problem best to play good cop for a bit and then play the bad cop slightly after if that makes any sense?
  • What is one person's good cop could be another's bad cop image

    Gareth - I'm sure what you can deduce from just your own thread is that there will be trial and error to work out what works for the two of you to help your sister with her recovery. I wish you both the best, and encourage your sister to come and join the threads too. 

  • RW thread linky in case useful.
  • Thanks for all the advice and info guys.

    Sunluvva you are right about, 'I'm training', It's a natural part of my own personality I want to help anyone experience the great high and experience that running gives us runners, the fact that it is my sister means I am so determined to help her, I know I need to dampen this down, so that she can succeed.

    She does have sleep problems, has a 6 year old little girl, husband that works away, is 35 years old, she does have problems leaving the house sometimes, has difficulty making decisions and her memory is non existent.

      

  • The best thing you can do is to be encouraging, patient and understanding. Every little step she achieves is a positive even if it's not as much as you'd hoped for - building up her self esteem and confidence is going to be more important than the running in the beginning.

    You mentioned she is overweight too so encouraging healthy eating but from a 'good fuel for running' viewpoint rather than weight control point would bring it's own benefits - I can guarantee she already knows what she should be eating for weight loss but probably finds less healthy choices comforting, and as a woman I'd recommend you never ever mention her weight or how good running would be to help her lose some - let her find that out for herself.

    Fortunately running is a fantastic way to help overcome/cope with depression so I imagine you hope that she gets to a point where she wants to run because it makes her feel good.
    Good luck with it and let us know how you both get on.
  • Yup ...totally agree that try different things and find what works !

    Personally, I like the mental boost running in the morning gives - the positive aspect of having done something good early in the day lasts through the afternoon and early evening.

    In addition to the running, keep in mind nutrition - good diet is as important as the miles on the feet.

    All the best and congrats on making a move in the right direction image

  • I'm afraid I have nothing to add or help to offer, but I want to wish you both the very best of luck.image
  • Gareth Morrice wrote (see)

    Thanks for all the advice and info guys.

    Sunluvva you are right about, 'I'm training', It's a natural part of my own personality I want to help anyone experience the great high and experience that running gives us runners, the fact that it is my sister means I am so determined to help her, I know I need to dampen this down, so that she can succeed.

    She does have sleep problems, has a 6 year old little girl, husband that works away, is 35 years old, she does have problems leaving the house sometimes, has difficulty making decisions and her memory is non existent.

      

    At the risk of sounding cliche, help her to walk before she can run then. Those every day challenges are big enough obstacles. I'd aim for a 5k in March and take it from there. She's obviously got a lot going on in her life and you want to show her how to exercise can help her not hinder.
  • If possible find nice routes to run, its easier to get out and run if its in a nice park, or somewhere with a view rather than around the back of industrial estate for instance. Its worth getting in the car and driving 20/30 mins if the route is pleasant.

    Encourage your sister to come up with her own ideas and listen to them. Cross train if possible - swimming, cycling, circuits at the local gym, walking - should all be counted as part of the training plan. The more routes toward activity the better.

    While exercise  in general can help with depression, it may not do in every case. Or outcomes may be different than you expect. For instance normally when I run I can get into a zone and running becomes automatic - the default was to continue running. When I was on ADs I found that I would tend to stop rather than to keep running, I had to almost consciously think about running. There wasnt that 'high' that would be expected to be there. Exercise has to be a choice. And it has to be her choice.

    Listen for opportunities for ways that she might help you with your training. If she is good at math then perhaps she could calculate heart rate zones. Or if you are looking for running kit perhaps enlist her help in finding a bargain. Everyone is good at somethin, if poss find a way for her to help you - its not just about you helping her.

    The fact that you are doing this will have a positive effect  even though that might not be obvious to you now. You are going about this the right way

  • I think running helps me avoid depressions. I have to beware of overdoing it when I feel good, because that can lead to fatigue which can drop me back in.
  • Very true CJ, or overdoing it in general so it feels like failure when you don't go as far or as fast as you planned etc
  • Oook!Oook! ✭✭✭
    Running helped me to control stress, converting it into aggressive motivation. Now that I have retired and am relatively stress free my speed and distance have reduced considerably. I think running a 10k is a little ambitious, Why not just get her into the running habit (any speed,any distance) and let her decide when (and if) she wants the pressure of a race. I know lots of regular club runners who race rarely, if ever, but still manage 20+ miles a week at their speed and distance, feeling the better for it.

  • I prefer to have routine when I'm struggling, so to always set out between x time and y time or to always start with the same path from the house. It makes things feel familiar and safe. I can set out on autopilot without being too anxious. I imagine though others will feel this places lots of pressure on them and they prefer a more flexible approach.

    I wrote this linky thing here for a friend who couldn't progress beyond the first stage (run 60 secs walk 90 times 6 of his programme) - Don't judge the technical stuff .. it'll be terrible and about 100 people will tell you it's all wrong but you may find the format of a schedule without a schedule helpful.

    Above all I think just be honest. If you are not sure whether something is working for your sister or not just ask her how she feels about it. So much quicker than trying to read minds image

    Take care and please let us know how you get on

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