Withdrawl Policy from Edinburgh Marathon 2012

Nearing the end of my Marathon training (less than 2 weeks before the race) for the Edinburgh Marathon I came down with a chest infection . I went to see my GP to see if I would be I would be fit to run he told me (after listening to my chest and examing me) in no uncertain terms that I would be unfit to run. When I told him that I would loose my entry fee he was suprised/ shocked and offered to write me a letter stating I was unfit to run due to a medical reason to help me reclaim my entrance fee or get my entrance defered for a year.

Being an experienced Marathon runner I knew my GP was correct in telling me to withdraw and he was proved correct in that with in 72 hours I was not very well. Before I withdraw from the Edinburgh Marathon I decieded to try to contact  the Race Director (Damien O Looney) or a member of the organiser (GSI Events. I tried both Email (through contact the link on the web site)- I am still waiting for a reply, and by phone (the number listed on both the website & the Scottish Athletics website) it came back as number no longer in use. Yesterday I took my now arrived number and doctors letter to the "The Race Hub" when I explained my situation to a member of staff she found contact details for Damien O Looney. I rang Mr O Looney and explained my situation his attitude was: Edinburgh Marathon withdrawl policy is in line with other races and I knew the I would loose my entry fee if I had to withdraw when I entered the race! He then pointed out to me I could get a discounted entry to 2013 marathon (which is open to everyone) if I entered on Monday but no defered entry at a discounted rate! 

My questions to everyone is  this: Is this the standard withdraw policy for Marathons?

 Mike M-S

 

          

Comments

  • Yup, pretty much standard policy. Their reason being that they have already used your entry fee to pay for your medal, your t-shirt, all the water and gels on offer, all the marshals and other staff working on the day and various other things that they can't get a refund on so why should they reimburse you for something that's not their fault. Perhaps seems slightly harsh when it's not your fault either, but if you look at any race and the number of DNSs they get, if they were to refund all of the folk who didn't start on the day it would cost them a small fortune. being sick and unable to participate is just a chance you have to take, unfortunately. And Edinburgh's rules and entry conditions does actually state that pretty clearly.

    Some events offer a graded refund system: e.g. if you withdraw 6 months before the event you get 90% refund, 3 months you get 75%, 6 weeks you get 40%, that sort of idea. Some don't. Almost all will let you defer your place i.e. give you a guaranteed entry for next year's event which is a big bonus for massively over-subscribed races like London but not such a big deal for most smaller races.

    Sorry you can't run this year. Hope you make it next year though!

     

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭

    I don't think any race will give you a refund if you can't run.

    London will allow you to defer, and I think Brighton do, too, but you don't get a refund and you have to pay AGAIN for the entry for next year.

    As R-W-D says, they have already incurred the costs and can't recover them.

  • Thanks for the responses.

    Hells85: As I have already withdrawn I am sorry that I cant give my number to your boyfriend.

    I know someone at work who had to defer last years London Marathon till this year due to injury and had to pay a discounted rate, this seems to me fair compromise.

    What worries me is that their are runners who are less experienced and who think they will be ok running with a chest infection and putting their health and in a worse case senarios their lives at risk, for sake of their entry fee and no insentive to take a safe option.

    What annoyed me yesterday when speaking to Damien O Looney was his attitude of " you should have thought of this when you entered the race" which I don't think is a good attitude for a race director to have to a runner.

    I am a local runner and coach in the Edinburgh/ East Lothian area and believe in supporting local events however with Mr O Looney attitude and what has happened to me this year (and with poor organisation etc in previous years) this is one local event/ race I don't think I will be supporting or entering again.

     Mike Malcolm-Smith

     

     

     

  • It's pretty much the same as buying a concert ticket and then not being able to go. Why should they give you your money back? The concert is still taking place isn't it? I think it's really very nice of them to offer you a discounted rate for next year. The Great North Run will also allow you to defer but you will pay the fee in full again next year if you choose to take them up on it. Other race organisers have a no refunds/transfers/deferral policy altogether and if you sign for one of their races, then you do so in the full knowledge that if you fail to make it to the startline, you lose your entry fee. It's already been spent. Most of the costs of staging a race are paid for up front. That's why races generally have cut offs weeks and months ahead of time.

    I'm genuinely sorry you're too ill to run and it's great that you've been to your doctor and are heeding the medical advice they have given you because it's not a pleasant experience to run while ill and you could be endangering your life if you run with a chest infection and that's no exaggeration but put this one down to experience and just forget about it. You can come back bigger and stronger next year and finish off what you started.

    You say you're a running coach? Why is this policy such a surprise to you? Or is it more that you're annoyed that you they've refused to make an exception and you wanted to publicly name and shame? Just asking.......image

  • There's no discount for VLM. You are allowed to defer but you have to pay the full entry fee again.





    Apart from that, did you read the T&C's of entry before you registered? I'm sure the refund policy would have been in there too.
  • Did the 10k in Edinburgh yesterday,on entering Holyrood park I asked a marshall where the start was,he didn,t know.I finished near the back of the field and had to fight my way through the finishing area which was full of spectators.I got to the end of the finishing area and there was no indication of where to collect medals and tee-shirts. I asked another marshall and he didn,t know.I know they are mostly volunteers but is a basic knowledge of the event too much to ask for.Having said that I really enjoyed the day and will be back next year.

    .Hope today goes well for everyone. 

     

  • Thanks again for the responses

    Liverbird: The reason I was so annoyed was that I felt that I had a genuine reason my GP gave me a letter saying I was medically unfit to run ( I looked on that as an eqivalent of sign GP letter signing you off as being unfit to work) and the attitude was one of not an apology but one of tough you new the risks. Yet if I had chosen to ignore my GPs advice and my own gut instincts and run and collapsed/ done long term damage to my health the organisers would have been the first to say I should have withdrawn. Being a coach (I didn't mention it the organisers) I would have adviced any athlete not to run feeling unwell.

    Jim Hamilton: Sorry to hear your unfortunate exprenicenes yesterday but unfortunately it dosenot suprise me as I have suffered GSI Events bad organisation doing the Marathon over the last few years.

    Well done to all runners over the last few warm days doing GSI Events 

      Mike Malcolm-Smith

  • If all it took was a doctor's certificate to get your money back from a race, especially just a few days before race, organiers would be faced a feck of a lot of CBAs and injured people after refunds. The organisers would lose money. 

    I'm surprised you are even querying this as a coach (assuming you are a sports coach of some typeimage). Surely you appreciate how much time and effort goes into organising events.



     

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭
    I can't really understand why any kind of apology was expected in these circumstances. What were you expecting them to apologise for - its a commercial enterprise with very clear T&C's. At best you could expect some sympathy and a pat on the back - but be aware that these people are incredibly busy at this stage of organising an event, and probably very stressed.



    The scenario is nothing like being signed off from work - from an employer. As has already been used as an example, a prepaid concert is more simlar (although transferring a ticket from one person to another is easier- but thats another kettle of fish)..



    There are no readily available insurance schemes to insure you against DNS situations. It really is a case of paying your money and hope to be on the start line.



    I think any large city event is going to feel a little impersonal and commercial. I would take whats on offer for next years entry.



    I wish you a speedy recovery
  • I've DNS'ed two marathons and a half marathon. The first DNS I was so ill I was under a neurologist and I couldn't even WALK in a straight line, never mind run. I went to Dublin and supported anyway but I had to sit on the kerb or I would've fallen over.

    Twelve months later, fully recovered I crossed the finish line and burst into tears.

    The second marathon I DNS'ed I simply wasn't match fit for. I had lost my mojo, was getting injured constantly and I knew that to run the race was going to make me miserable so I pulled out. I ended up supporting people and I handed the medals out.

    I don't regret either decision. One was for a genuine medical reason, the other one was more a gut instinct. But I didn't ask for my money back and neither race organisation accepts transfers or deferrals. It didn't bother me. The right decision is the RIGHT DECISION and the money wasn't the point.

    I wish you well in your recovery from the chest infection and look forward to hearing about the moment that you cross that line fully fit and healthy. Good luck.

  • seems it is difficult to get the refund

     

     

     

     

  • Sounds like more of a matter of bad customer service; if the published contacts worked and you had been treated with a bit of understanding, you still would be no better off but propably would have felt better about it. 

  • jim hamilton wrote (see)
    Did the 10k in Edinburgh yesterday,on entering Holyrood park I asked a marshall where the start was,he didn,t know.I finished near the back of the field and had to fight my way through the finishing area which was full of spectators.I got to the end of the finishing area and there was no indication of where to collect medals and tee-shirts. I asked another marshall and he didn,t know.I know they are mostly volunteers but is a basic knowledge of the event too much to ask for.Having said that I really enjoyed the day and will be back next year. 

    Volunteers cover the bit they've been assigned to. They got there at the time given and were briefed to cover their role. It's odds on they hadn't been anywhere else to see the layout. The number of people who know the full layout of the entire race is probably measurable on one hand, and trying to give all knowledge to all volunteers is very time consuming and untimately a waste as most will just forget.

    Of course one of the issues with really big events is keeping people moving at the end. If they'd managed that and kept the spectators out then you probably would have just been able to follow the flow directly past where medals and shirts were being distributed. As it was you probably walked past it and simply couldn't see it. Personally I think there's no excuse for not keeping runners and spectators apart until the runners exit the race area with all formalities completed. The only exception would be the bag drop, but even there it would be far better if that was also inside the race compound where possible.

  • Little Ninja: Yes I am a qualified UK Athletics Coach with 14 marathons and numerous other distance races behind me.

     Why I am querying this policy? Their might be a runner (with a chest infection) who for whatever reason feels under pressure  to run a marathon because he will loose his entry money (entry fees for Marathons are not cheap). The resulting possible scenario from running a marathon with a chest infection is the virus spreading in this runner and not only making his chest infection worse , but possibley causing long term damage to his heart , or even in extreme cases death. 

    The comparison with concerts is that with concert tickets is with tickets at 2 weeks notice if you cant use concert tickets you can usually find friends/ family members who can use them. Race numbers are non transferable and a few years ago a couple from a running  club did transfer and got found out by The Edinburgh Marathon Organisers  and to put it mildly had the book thrown at them by the organisers.

    JLB3: I think you are right some of the customer handling could have been handled better. Certainly the attitude of the race director was: tough and you should have of that risk when you entered.

    Thanks Again Everyone. The come back starts now to get rid all the pent up frustrations!

     Mike Malcolm-Smith

     

     

     

     

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I don't know of any race that would give a refund for any reason and I wouldn't even think to ask, doctors note or not.

    Mike Malcolm-smith wrote (see)

    Why I am querying this policy? Their might be a runner (with a chest infection) who for whatever reason feels under pressure  to run a marathon because he will loose his entry money (entry fees for Marathons are not cheap). The resulting possible scenario from running a marathon with a chest infection is the virus spreading in this runner and not only making his chest infection worse , but possibley causing long term damage to his heart , or even in extreme cases death.

    Surely no-one would run the marathon if they were that ill just because they'd paid for it?  image

    Mike Malcolm-smith wrote (see)

     Race numbers are non transferable and a few years ago a couple from a running  club did transfer and got found out by The Edinburgh Marathon Organisers  and to put it mildly had the book thrown at them by the organisers.

    Quite right.  I'm involved in the organisation of a fell race and you do need to know who's taking part for obvious reasons.  I have also seen prize presentations where men have run with a ladies number and qualified for a prize, completely mucking up the results.

     

  • Mike Malcolm-smith wrote (see)

    Why I am querying this policy? Their might be a runner (with a chest infection) who for whatever reason feels under pressure  to run a marathon because he will loose his entry money (entry fees for Marathons are not cheap). The resulting possible scenario from running a marathon with a chest infection is the virus spreading in this runner and not only making his chest infection worse , but possibley causing long term damage to his heart , or even in extreme cases death. 

    Well really, that would be rather stupid, entirely his/her own fault and absolutely nothing to do with the race organisers. As for losing your entry fee, once you've paid it, technically you've 'lost' it whether you run or not, in that you don't get it back by running the race! If you can't afford it, I think you probably shouldn't enter in the first place.

  • Unfortunately this worse case senario has happened! I can speak from experience.- Back in the day when I was young inexperienced and reckless I ran a half marathon with a slight cold, I can only vaguely remember finishing and according to a medical friend was very lucky not to end up in hospital. If I had an option to withdraw from that race and have had my entry deferred or refunded I don't know.   

    Minni- Is that a Wooler vest I spy?

     Mike Malcolm-Smith 

     

     

  • Anyone who runs and puts their life in danger for 40 pounds is an idiot...people have to be responsible for themselves and have already signed that they will only run if they are fit...
  • Yeah, there is a limit to what organisers can do to guard against stupidity. And I'm not sure the entry fee is what causes most people to run when they ought to DNS, it's more usually not wanting to waste the training surely? Plus good old denial. With colds especially I think it's hard to appreciate how even a mild cold affects you until you've raced with one.

    The company behind the Cambridge Half Marathon give refunds, staggered depending on the notice period. I do think with appropriate warning some organisers could be a little more flexible. Royal Parks half for instance has no refunds, defers or transfers at any point, and you have to sign up nearly ten months in advance.

  • I think the policy of discount deferal to the following years race is fair. Race (Marathon) Organisers will probaldly somewhere on their  entry forms the advice  of if your not fit/ or unwell don't run. To encourage "unhealthy" runners not to  take part and do the sensible thing (not to run) their has to be an insentive.

     Mike Malcolm-Smith 

     

  • Mike Malcolm-smith wrote (see)

    I think the policy of discount deferal to the following years race is fair. Race (Marathon) Organisers will probaldly somewhere on their  entry forms the advice  of if your not fit/ or unwell don't run. To encourage "unhealthy" runners not to  take part and do the sensible thing (not to run) their has to be an insentive.

     Mike Malcolm-Smith 

     

    Mike Malcolm-smith wrote (see)

    To encourage "unhealthy" runners not to  take part and do the sensible thing (not to run) their has to be an insentive.

     Mike Malcolm-Smith 

     

    There is an incentive. It's called personal responsibility? image

    If you run when you know you ought not to have done, it's certainly not the fault of the organisers. In fact, I'd send you a bill for the medical assistance too if I could. It's about time we stopped blaming everyone else for what happens to us. Sometimes shit happens. image

  • I was supposed to be running my first ever Marathon in London this year but had to pull out due to a broken foot.  I completed the relevamt form that stated "P<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; text-align: left;">roviding you adhere to the dates below and pay the appropriate entry fee, you will be accepted for the 2013 race."  Now to me I had already paid the entry fee for 2012 and assumed this was carried over to 2013.  Today I tried to enter using my defered entry and found I had to pay another fee!

    <span style="font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">I appreciate the comments on the thread re outlays for medals, T-shirts, stewards, etc but having not received any of these goods/services feel slightly disgruntled about paying the fee.  

    <span style="font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">This is not out of "tightness" but feel that it may be that I am new to entering races and having read the terms and conditions there is nothing that expilicity says you will or will not either receive your entry fee back or if you defer you will effectively pay a second entry fee.

    <span style="font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">Notwithstanding I am aware how lucky I am to get my own place in the VLM but do share sympathy with the original poster  but also have to say if I was aware of the policy I probably would have considered running as its not just the entry fee but the associated travel and hotel costs for the whole trip.

    <span style="font-family: Verdana;"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;">Slightly off topic but would welcome any thoughts.

  • OK so you didnt get a teeshirt or medal this year - but if you'd turned up - you would have.  So why should you effectively ask the organiser to pay double for these items ? 

    They've been bought, not used and disposed of by now. Marshalls would have helped direct you. Toilets were booked for you. Water was there for you.

    Its unlucky that you couldnt make it - but thats just life.  I'd not expect to be able to get my money back - its been spent.

  • What Cougie said. *Nods wisely* image

  • Maybe organisers could charge everyone extra then keep some funds in reserve to cover the cost of engraving medals with 'DNS' and sending them out to everyone who paid in advance for them but couldn't run on the day. Would that solve the issue?

    image

  • can i recommend never entering an ironman.if you are so gutted at losing out of £40 then can't imagine what it would be like if you broke your toe a few days before an ironman which cost you over £350 to enter

  • PG3PG3 ✭✭✭

    I was ill in the few days up to Edinburgh and couldn't run and would never dream of 1, thinking that I should get a refund or discounted entry for next year or 2, risking my health for the sake of just over £40.  

    I accepted that it is just one of those things and was glad that it didn't happen, as seren nos stated, when I had entered an ironman and spent a fortune om the entry.

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