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Are you and "in" or an "out"?
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They will also be able to say they will reduce immigration which will get them a lot of working class votes...can Corbyn bring himself to say the same?
No he can't. But nor can they, unless they tell porkies.
VDOT - the reason one votes for a party are varied. I didn't want a referendum (although I anticipated that if there was one Cameron, having promised it, would probably put a very good case why we should stay and there would be a modicum of truthfulness form the other side), I voted for economic continuity and a 7 day GP service. Labour voters wanted a referendum, but voted to get rid of the Tories who would give them one.
That's the point. You can't pick and choose which bits of the manifesto you want, you have to take the whole package once you have decided what most appeals to you. I daresay there are quite a large number of who don't read the manifestos at all. They are too busy hating the other side to engage with what's actually on offer.
Perhaps it was you, or perhaps it was someone else on here who said that maybe you should vote for policies rather than parties - impractical but it would theoretically work in most people's best interests.
This is why I would like to see a properly progressive coalition - whatever happens with Article 50 - so that we could put and end to the system which has got us to this place. The Tories should be absolutely wiped out in the next election but the "opposition" can't get anyone to vote for them. Shit. Creek. Paddle.
I would observe that some of the panic has been taken out of the situation now by shares and GBP stabilising but also that politically there is chaos.
This is incredible.
In the referendum there were two possible votes - in or out.
At the end of the day the government were elected to run the country for 5 years and part of their agenda for those 5 years was to have a referendum which was to happen quite early during that term and hence, surely, any good government whatever their own opinion should have had a strategy for an in or an out vote. Particularly as whilst some opinion polls got it wrong many got it right and it was obviously close but the strategy for both results should have been set (if not released to the public) before we even entered into the referendum debate.
In my view the Government should not have been so closely involved in the actual debate - they should have made their recommendation at the start of the campaign and set out clearly why then there should have been a cross party team of people charged with presenting that case, none of whom were front benchers.
The Front Bench should have watched from the sidelines and prepared for the aftermath.
No resignations necessary as their role was not to fight one side of the campaign but to give the country a referendum as part of their 5 year agenda, their main role being to run the country.
i dont blame him leaving.. why try and do an impossible task and get the blame......there is no way that the government can get a deal that the remain people are happy with....so why not let the people who promised that deal the chance to get the deal they promised
I think the markets are just waiting to see what happens with Article 50 and what deal UK gets...maybe people making noises about staying in the single market has helped.
SFF - That's pretty much why all bets are off as to what happens next as far as I am concerned.
You couldn't sell a used car on the basis of how this was sold to the electorate.
You can argue that one side won and one side lost and that is that, or you could argue that:
1. There was no action prior to the referendum to ensure a margin (60/40?) that would be a true mandate to take action. This was negligent.
2. Given that the leave campaign were proven very shortly after the event to have no plan and to have reneged on their promises it mean that that people weren't voting for what they thought they were voting for. This was fraud.
3. Given that so many have expressed regret at the way they voted a rerun might prove a different result. You got a snapshot of angry protesting people on a single day in June, you did't get a mandate to break up the UK or threaten it with recession.
For all the petitions, may be the one we need is "Don't invoke Article 50" all we need is 19m signatures (more than voted for either side) and Bob (or maybe Boris) is your Uncle
Do people think we will remain after all. Interesting article from a Brexiter saying why we won't leave, but the only person who could pull this off is Boris Je because he's totally shameless.
www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wont-really-happen-second-referendum-markets-value-housing-pound-a7106996.html
So what's everyone's favourite option, assuming we do leave. Mines the Norway model basically in Europe, but with a few protected areas, but downside is a lot less say in Europe.
Mr Worry - I guess staying in EEA (or whatever the acronym) is best option...is that same as what Norway have? We still pay in and we get access to single market...although this also means free movement of people (or is that just labour?). I guess we lose all EU funding, but don't have to abide by most EU laws? Something like that. It's complicated.
But Farage and co will kick up a fuss, especially if have free movement of people still.
What with the shitty weather and the shitty everything I'd quite like to emigrate.
I'm hoping a general election will be called before the A50 trigger is pulled. Failing that, the 'Norway model' is the best option we have, but it's far from a done deal, even if that's what we're aiming for.
No idea what will really happen to be honest. I'm not sure if anyone has the balls to press the button without "making sure" with a General Election first. But then that's only slightly better since the party with the most seats won't necessarily be the one with the most votes.
I find it deeply ironic that because there is no legal mandate for this referendum there is no legal way to challenge it.
We are prepared to let the kids burn the house down because nobody thought they would get hold of the matches in the first place.
What a way to run a country.
A period of relative financial calm. Built on nothing much though. In think you'd probably just need luck at this point to steer through what the markets will do and when and in response to what.
If Boris and Angela Eagle become leaders of their respective parties, how are we supposed to tell them apart?
Very cheeky - but I don't blame them. The only person who seems to have the faintest clue what they are doing is Nicola Sturgeon.
Anyway, this is what John Kerry thnks:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/29/john-kerry-brexit-could-be-walked-back-david-cameron
Remember, with the exception of, was it Greenland (?) who left on a specific problem with fishing rights, this has never been done before. I don't think the EU know how to do it, or anyone here knows how to do it or even if it can actually be done.
We could see the Circumlocution Office become a reality.
The deal we'll get is what we've got now, only less favourable, more expensive, and with no democratic representation. And, assuming the EU or UK don't implode, it will be several years to reach that point.
The issues the uk faces are dire. Recession, unemployment and a worse deal with the EU than the racists rejected.
I watched hardtalk on the bbc last night. Stephen Sakur talking to a polish EU MP. He said that England is now seen as member of the public looking in through the window of a private club and wanting to use the facilities without paying the fees. He nailed it.
I'm pretty sure that the longer time goes on, the more we will be left with only a hard core of leavers, not nearly the 17m that vote last week. I reckon the only person who really wanted it among the campaigners was Farage.
Boris never really wanted to it was a career moe that backfired.
Cam's already getting a bit demob happy.
I watched hardtalk on the bbc last night. Stephen Sakur talking to a polish EU MP. He said that England is now seen as member of the public looking in through the window of a private club and wanting to use the facilities without paying the fees. He nailed it.
Interesting allegory.
Allow me to expand.
Half of England is a member of the public looking in through the window of a private club and expects to use the facilities for free by birth right.
Most of them don't have the fees anyway, but if they did, they still won't pay. It should be free. If it isn't free, it's someone else's fault. Always.
It doesn't matter if others pay the fee, as long as they don't have to. However, they maintain they have just as much right to use the facilities for free as those who pay.
Immigrants should pay double to use the facilities, despite owning the facilities, building the facilities and running the facilities.
My attitude is much the same as my immigrant neighbour.
"Where I come from, if you don't work, you don't eat".
Ditto!
🙂
Oh and Ric, congrats on yours coming out of sorts. That was most unexpected.
Maybe some people felt like the cleaners at the private club who had their wages cut in half and when they complained they got some cleaners from elsewhere to do the job.
I saw that interview to VDOT. Was interesting. My daughter kept talking to me though so couldn't hear properly, bloody kids.
Tusk has just come out of their cosy little EU summit and told us no bogging way are we going to get free access to the single market without free movement of people.
So...not sure how the next PM is going to sell this...?!
Wish I knew how to post pictures. Still not convinced prospective Labour leader Angela Eagles isn't Boris in drag. Bloody hell that man is ambitious. PMQs are going to be like that Ronnie Barker half-and-half sketch.
I'm thinking just leave Corbyn in place and see how they do in a general election.
Well it looks like Corbyn won't go of his own accord. He appointed someone today and they resigned within two hours. It seems an untenable situation, but he's sticking in even if it means ripping the party in two. I'd pay a couple of quid to join and vote just to stop this becoming a self destructive merry go round. Not voting for "Angela" though. Not until I see her and Boris in the same room together.
On a lighter note, if you haven't seen it yet, this made me laugh. For quite a long time...
http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/06/29/brexit-version-downfall-take-us-inside-boris-johnsons-bunker/