Greater Manchester Marathon - UK's Flattest Marathon 2014

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  • Egg Chaser if your already managing 10-12 miler's and happy with that I would be tempted to say b*gger the plan a little in terms of pace and keep at it. Plan's are generic and can't take into account your own fitness level.

    Training partner's are always cool through they can get the beers in after. image

  • p.s. that's as long as your comfortable at 10 miles if after 10 miles your thinking f*ck me that was hard try and slow down. The pacing idea is so that if you are trying to increase your distance and not fit for it. So if your doing alright just go at a pace you are happy with, just don't hammer it on the long runs.

  • Hi all,

    Make way for another VLM reject (x3) and for those who are venturing  over big hill  from the Yorkshire marathon. I did Manchester this year fantastic support and a PB. Hoping for more of the same in 2014, head down for a winter training plan aiming for sub 4 sub 3.50 if poss.

  • Another London reject here!

    I'm hoping for my first sub 5! Finished Chester in 5:30 so have a long way to go... Just hoping I can have an injury free build up image

  • Got trapped in Altrincham at the weekend following the storms down south - all trains from Picadilly to Euston on the Monday were cancelled until late afternoon so had an unexpected extra day up there. Saw lots of the route going to and from Altrincham and Manchester centre for various wedding fayres etc. Not sure how impressed my sister was by the end of the weekend when I kept talking about how I would be running along various routes etc instead of focussing on her wedding planning!

    Now have come home with an absolute humdinger of a cough/cold so haven't run for just over a week all in all. Still coughing my guts up and wheezing so definitely no run for me this weekend - image

    It's not the most scenic route by any stretch of the imagination but every road we went along had some sort of childhood memory for me - be it passed my Grans' houses, my sister's flat, my old school, various old haunts. Literally going to be a trip down memory lane for me - while making new memories at the same time.

    Got my copy of P&D book last week - looks a bit more intensive than the Hal Higdon one I followed at the start of this year for Rome. Not sure whether to have a go or stick with the next level of Hal Higdon (Intermediate II). Have struggled to get my legs and running fully recovered after the cobbles of Rome so worried about taking too big a step up. Time to get planning I think. On the hunt for various Halfs and 10 milers to slot in along the way.

  • Kirsty Cooper wrote (see)

    It's not the most scenic route by any stretch of the imagination but every road we went along had some sort of childhood memory for me - be it passed my Grans' houses, my sister's flat, my old school, various old haunts. Literally going to be a trip down memory lane for me - while making new memories at the same time.

    This is true but the crowds make up for it. The initial stretch around parts of Old Trafford and the section between the outskirts of Sale (Mersey Farm) and Urmston/Flixton are a bit bleak but on the flip side the year they had a section through Dunham and the park, the weather waterlogged the course

    The crowds between Sale and Altrincham are great and give you a real boost and for me, the sight of Old Trafford beckoning me home is a real motivator (although I'm sure it's the opposite for some)

    I think the route goes past pretty much every watering hole from my mispent youth in Sale and Alty, plus the Gorse Hill which I now frequent on a match day

    It's great to be out running in Timperley and every time I go past the Frank Sidebottom statue, there's someone having their picture taken with it

    There are HM in Helsby in Jan, Oulton Park in Feb and Wilmslow in March plus a 10 miler in Rhyl in Jan if you're local for races local to the "big one"

  • image Just in case if I can get away with saying it around all you manc's Liverpool half is a good warm up race as well. There is a very good but hilly half in Liversage in feb for the folks on the yorkshire side of the hill's.

  • Rockinrobin I missed the Frank Sidebottom statue this year not sure it reached the route highlights list. Let me know when to look out for it. I'd never heard of Timperley either.

    Cake I'm doing Liversedge again third time, loved the artic conditions last time just made realise just how many brian cells I'd lost since starting running.

    Still on post marathon taper so off to the pub tonight, running not top priority this weekend.

  • Hi everyone, this is gonna be my first marathon so v excited but expect to have a lot of high and lows with my training. have signed up to run with the 4.45 pacers..so hoping on the day that will help!

  • Nearly wimped on run Saturday as started thundering as i left the house - luckly i was meeting friends so couldn't leave them waiting for me.  5 flat miles and the run back up to my house later i was glad i'd gone.  Then 9 hilly miles off road yesterday - not quite as much as i'd hoped to do but Mr C and the dogs came round the first 4.5 miles with me then headed back to the cafe to wait for me while i did another loop and i didn't want to leave them waiting too long.

    Shortie - i expect we'll all have a few highs and lows over the next few months, try to enjoy the training as much as you can and remember no matter how fast or slow you finish your first marathon is always special.

  • well after following some good advise from the guys on here and a great deal of focus on my wtach, managed to slow down todayimage.

    Did 7.5 miles this morning pre work, at 10 min mile pace vs the normal 8.45 - 9.15 mins per mile. Felt considerably different thats for sure

    Positive step forwards in advance of the P&D plan starting

  • Good stuff EEC - it's not easy.  I went out last night with the OH and we basically raced for 3 miles!

     

  • Fran Gray 4 wrote (see)

    Hi everyone, this is gonna be my first marathon so v excited but expect to have a lot of high and lows with my training. have signed up to run with the 4.45 pacers..so hoping on the day that will help!

    The beauty of the pacers was that (provided you didn't wear the pacing bib that said what time you were trying to run in) you could follow them and then if you wanted to go faster or slower you could do. I went off too quickly having said I'd follow the 4 hour guy and he then came flying past me at Mile 20 and I had nothing left to try and grab his coat tails. There is an art to pacing and some of them do go faster early doors to bank a bit of time rather than running a universal split for the whole race

    The starting "pens" were nice and loosely organised so you weren't mandated to join the group you'd originally signed up for but they were sufficient to sort of order the racers on ability/finish time and ensure not too much congestion at the start

    The 4 hour guy got them round in good time this year so I'm going to try and stick to my race plan this time rather than get carried away by the crowd etc

    Nice to do a race at Capesthorne HM on Sunday, just for a bit of variety and now back into the weekly training in the run up to Christmas

    Still firming up the later weeks of the training plan and looking to fit in a couple of other races in Jan/Feb having entered the Wilmslow HM

  • I am in for this again too, I enjoyed it way too much to miss out on another crack at a PB.

    After been more a middling 10k man for a few years after taking up running, last year was my first step up to marathon distance. I came home in 3:28 having thoroughly enjoyed most of the race. I had started training for Chester Marathon to push on, and was into the 20+ milers before I ended up injured. I decided there was no point flogged a limping horse as Manchester was my main goal, so I dropped the mileage and concentrated on three autumnal halves. This seems to have been a lucky change in direction as my speed endurance has really pushed on from where I was in the run up to Manchester and I am now good for a sub 1:30 half on the right course. Based on my summers effort; what seemed like an unthinkable dream of a 3:15 GFA Marathon (and a sub-40 10k) is no longer so far away. My aim is to give myself a shot at GFA in good conditions, but probably in the region of 3:15 - 3:20.

    Regarding training, I am going to throw my hat into the ring. I am no good at following rigid plans and last year I followed a rough 16 week idea of pushing up 45-50 miles running 4 days per week and to include the 5 longest runs totalling over 100 miles. I did however follow a rigid 3 week taper according distance coach.com to get some speed back into my legs. The rest of the weekly runs were easy or fartlek up to 11 or 12 miles. This year I intend to run 5, sometimes 6 days a week and push up to 55 miles following: 

    • 1 x LR at about race pace, most which include some hills. 2-3 at 22 miles
    • 1 x Recovery the day after the LR
    • 1 x Medium Tempo/Threshold (with good chunks at current half – 10k pace)
    • 1 x Speed Session which will be new to me, and not sure how to do this yet.
    • Make the rest up depending on the body and weather

    I have no idea how this compares with P&D or others?

    The main things I have learnt (some of them the hard way) over the past year: 

    • Fuel properly the day before a long run. I have discovered my body loves buckets of rice, but I have heavy legs after pasta!
    • Eat something notorious instantly after finishing a session, consider electrolyte intake after long runs, and experiment with recovery runs.
    • Invest in a lacrosse ball and quality foam roller, the poor persons masseuse! But if you go get a major niggle, see a sports therapist straight away to work on the trigger points, otherwise you risk collateral strains in compensating muscles.
    • Try to get the 5 long runs in at 100+ miles.
    • Don’t get excited at the start of races, stick right on goal pace, feel good for longer and conserve energy for the end.
    • Probably for the more advanced. I normally (try to) do the long runs without gels or food to train to getting use to running glycogen depleted and to burn fat for fuel. The theory is that the gels then give me an extra lift on race day.  

    Before we get down to the serious training I’d love to hear what things other people have learnt or recommend?

     Cheers, Rich

  • Rich having took my PB at Manchester last year down to 3hrs 17mins I am back again hoping to duck below a dream 3hrs 15mins. Looking at your plan it seems a bit like my own from last year, I am also looking for some ideas on what I could improve this time round.

  • You're quite a bit faster than me, Richard. My second marathon was this May in Milton Keynes where I ran 4:19, which was a PB, albeit a disappointing one as I felt I had prepared to run under 4:00, but c'est la vie.

    I jotted down some lessons in the week or so after the race, for next time. These were:

    1. more long runs of 20+ miles. I did only three 20 mile runs, along with some 18s, 17s and 16s, and felt I would have benefitted from the extra endurance of these longer runs.

    2. more leg strengthening. There were 1 or 2 hills at the start of the MK marathon. Nothing too taxing, but enough to obviously take something out of my legs. Thereon it was either pancake flat or undulating as you went over/under roads. I think that had I done some hill training during my training these small climbs would have had less impact on my legs.

    3. Better race fuelling practice. I really just winged it on the day, and I felt like I bombed around mile 16. My legs stiffened up, muscles cramped. None of this had happened in training, and I had no response to it. Could've been the heat (was noticably warmer than during any of my training) or could've been that I just ran out of fuel, although why this would happen on race day but never before I don't know.

    4. Early morning runs and lunchtime runs. This was more a logistical consideration to appease my missus. She was supportive during my training, but towards the end did comment a few times that I always seemed to be late home, as I would do longer midweek runs home from work, getting in later than I normally would. She's very tolerant, but I'd rather keep her on side, so she's less likely to complain about me disappearing for 2-3 hours every weekend during my long runs.

    5. Quicker 5 & 10k times before starting marathon training. Personally, a bit more speed at the shorter distance would give me more confidence in pushing the speed during the marathon.

    Just a few observations.

  • Faster than me also Rich, plan looks like it has all the right ingredients and mix



    I am going with p &d for the first time. Certainly looks like your planning more long runs that the book recommends, it's a lesson I have learnt also, and I am planning a few more than I have done previously and the plan suggests.....



    I am an avid foam roller also! My 3 year old loves watching me and makes the recovery a tad more fun when watching her have a go also!
  • Right - after much schedule and races research, I've decided to plump for the Hal HIgdon Intermediate II schedule. I followed the Intermediate I schedule at the start of this year and I loved it and the II version follows a similar pattern but with longer and more runs. Looking forward to the step up in intensity and I have slotted in a couple of races along the way. I'm based in Dorset so have the Blackmore Vale Half in February (which is very hilly so good strong legs required) and the Mad March 20 miler in March (surprisingly!).

    The last schedule I followed only had 2 20milers in it so definitely wanted to incorporate at least 3 this time round with a few 17-20s thrown in too for good measure. I found the last 6 miles so much more difficult than I thought in Rome.

    My hubby may well sign up too and run the marathon - he hasn't run in a while but has decided that if he can get himself up to 10 miles by Christmas, he'll start a 12 week programme at start of Jan and join in.

    Now I just need to kncok this chesty cough on the head by 2nd December and remind my legs of what running is as I haven't been able to get out for a fortnight because of being so ill.

  • Rich - very interesting re pasta night before i found it didn't always agree with me but haven't tried rice.  Experimenting with veg pizza on Friday night before fell race on Saturday it's worked out ok for a few long runs.  Loving the eat something notorious after comment does cake count?

     

     

  • Kirsty Cooper wrote (see)

    Right - after much schedule and races research, I've decided to plump for the Hal HIgdon Intermediate II schedule. I followed the Intermediate I schedule at the start of this year and I loved it and the II version follows a similar pattern but with longer and more runs.

    The last schedule I followed only had 2 20milers in it so definitely wanted to incorporate at least 3 this time round with a few 17-20s thrown in too for good measure. I found the last 6 miles so much more difficult than I thought in Rome.

    I'd toyed with this one and am still wavering. I'm with Agent Ginger in that last time I only did 1 20 mile run and a couple of 18 and 17 and think that counted against me in the last 6 miles. Similarly I ran out of gas despite taking on board regular gels, not sure whether I just ran too fast early doors

    My schedule last time was taken from Manchester Marathon's own website (The intermediate plan) but I increased some of the longer runs based on the point I was at when training started. I think my worry with Higdon is that it seems to jump up and down later on and the 10% rule goes out of the window. I can see that you'd want to incorporate "rest" weeks but there seems alot of fluctuation

    I prefer the build up approach with 3 weeks and then dropping down slightly every 4th week. Am going to continue around the base I've built for last week's HM and then start a 16 week build up mid-December

    The other thing I have is that I think I'd struggle to run more than 4 days per week (although I currently cross train on a 5th day and have 2 rest days)

    Have googled and not really found a training regime out there for 4 days per week that doesn't require some tweaking

    My post LRS notorius was a peanut butter, honey and banana smoothie but I think that may explain the descent into Elvis-mode image

  • Had my first little recovery run today since my 1st Half marathon on Sunday.  Just a 4.5k jog to get the blood flowing again image  Hoping to get a few easy runs in for the next couple of weeks, then off to Mexico for a couple of weeks then the P&D starts on 2nd December!  Looking forward to it already, i really enjoyed training for the half.

    John

  • rockinrockyrobin wrote (see)
    Have googled and not really found a training regime out there for 4 days per week that doesn't require some tweaking

    The FIRST plan has three runs per week with two cross-training days (I think - haven't looked at it in detail) - could you use that and swap one of the cross training days for a fourth run?

  • I LOVE the Liz Yelling plan! 4 days really suited me and you basically put as much effort into sessions as suits! I am convinced some people arrive at Race Day thoroughly exhausted by high mileage! Put it this way.....I am 60 yrs old and did marathon two years ago very comfortably in 4:15 but this year followed plan again and did 3:49 with no ill effects.injuries and recovered immediately.  That time is very acceprable for most and my main point is that the whole training was not a dreadful chore and yet I got gfa time for 41 yr old.....I have written to thank martin and liz yelling!! Bought P & D out of interest but not convinced!

  • Hi Chrissi,

    On the subject of fueling, the pre-long run rice meal was found purely by accident, having noticed a distinct increased in overall energy on the following days runs. Fortunately I like chinese, lots! I stay clear of curry on the basis of the fat and spice content (lets not go there). I am sure I had later read a quote from a top kenyan runner when asked about his pre-race day meals as: "rice, rice and rice! rice for breakfast, rice for lunch and rice for dinner!". My body has preference for carbs as follows, rice -- potatoes (mash) -- pasta! Maybe if you keep a diary over a few weeks you might notice some kind of trend.

    I also tend to go with a banana 30-60 minutes before anything over 8 or 9 miles. Post runs favourite; flap jack, if there is chocolate and/or honey on that, then all the better! I can also testify that you really should not eat raw oats for breakfast, they really, really do not agree with your guts  image.

    Hi Agent Ginger

    I have also started on lunchtime runs to help appease the other half. I am very fortunate to be at a company that has quite a relaxed attitude and allows up to 2 hours for lunch as a part of overall flexi-hours. I can fit up to a half mara into that if I am quick about changing. Far better to be out on the roads in the light than sat staring at the internet on lunch breaks. During full mara schedule I also intend to use up 4-6 half day holidays for midweek afternoon long runs, to take the pressure off weekend time together. These will be the 18-22 milers.

    RR

    You can absolutely run a decent marathon on 4 days a week, you just have to make sure you get the approriate milage and quality of sessions in the bag. If anything the extra rest days are a blessing for your body. I think you can change any basic book recipe, the issue with 4 days is that most runs tend to be of a longer variety to fit in the volume, which can be taxing if you have a niggle. Regarding the 22 milers, they really put my body on the line, so I usually do a route that allows a bale-out at for 19-20 miles, just in case. Better to not get injured, and try again at the next long run.

  • Chrissi wrote (see)

      Loving the eat something notorious after comment does cake count?

     

     

    I find pork scratchings help if that's any help. Seriously they have a lot of salt in them as well as being bad food so useful with a pint.

    image This is a shameless plug so apologies on advance but if you got any diet questions my better half is a Dietican her private business website here When she get's round to it she's been saying for about 12 months she's goign to put some food info on there.

    Mentioning this because a, if you what a private consultation so we can pay the gas bill or b, She's called bookie on here so you could just ask her on the threads and save a lot of money because she will probably give your same advice for free.

    Oh and for carb's try sweet potato's they are brilliant. image

  • Right so i'm thinking maybe a nice jacket potato the night before and the biggest bag of crisps i can get my hands on after image

    Richard - Thanks will experiment a bit and add notes to my diary.  I found out about the oats the hard way used to eat porridge anyway but always had problems on a long run.  I have toast with peanut butter and banana now and it does seem to suit.  Have the odd problem still (sorry if tmi) but hoping tweaking my evening meal will help with that.

    Bev - going to take a look at the Liz Yelling plan

  • I am a very early morning runner, pre work in the week and also at weekend as works with for the family, I am therefore always running on empty! Today I did 10.5 on nothing other than a cereal bar as I left the house at 6am.



    I am making sure I eating correctly days before and immediately afterwards, however Any of you have any advice or prior experience of doing this and feel there's anything I need to be aware of?
  • Just back up to base mileage 25 per week, includes parkrun most weeks. I don't like the dark mornings so to freshen things up I'm trying to run early evening, the hardest bit is getting through the door, once out it's a good change, I'm also trying out different routes.

    On training plans, I followed the Manchester marathon intermediate plan last year and I liked it, I did lose some weight before the marathon but was very pleased with a pb but I did get to the start line, feeling fit and ready not tired. However, I didn't stick to it for the Yorkshire marathon, too many distractions, I did 4 x 20+ milers, felt training went well but I just didn't feel my best on race day still sub4 so pleased.

    I'll have a look at Liz Yelling plans, if it works for Bev 3.49 wow. I think 4 days running for me is sustainable, I just worry about pushing too much by overtraining and getting injured, I'm late 50's only been running for 5 years, 2 at marathons.

    I'm running the Barnsley 10knext week  no pb potential for me, only a pb if your pb is currently set in the Himalayas

    I'm looking forward to swapping tales of the joys of running, mostly. 

     

  • I love running early morning - it's so peaceful. I live in between Poole and Bournemouth so early morning running along the sea front is gorgeous. I have a young family too (well, not that young anymore - my daughter turns seven next weekend) so getting my long run done and dusted at 6am Saturday morning makes the weekends much easier to juggle.

    I tend to just have a cereal bar if I'm doing anything up to say 8 miles or so. For anything into double digits, I have two weetabix - I find it fills me up enough to give me the energy I need to complete the run but without making me feel too stuffed so I then have to wait around til I digest some of it. It's nice and quick and does the trick for me!

    Finally starting to get over this hideous cough and cold I picked up in Altrincham a couple of weekends ago - not had a virus this bad in a long while. Went out for a slow and gentle five mile run last night to get the legs working again - felt tough! So annoyed as I had just got my base mileage back up so I was doing three mid-week runs of between 5-10 miles plus a long run of half marathon at the weekend in preparation to start the schedule at start of December and now feel like I've lost it all. Hopefully it won't take too long to get back up again (well, it better not as only three weeks or so til the 18 week schedule starts). Need to be sensible though and not push myself to get straight back up though as don't want a relapse!

  • Another 5.30-6am start runner, I tend to have a sports drink (from Holland and Barrett) which mixes up to a pint and you drink half before you go out and half when you get back. Only tend to use it for runs well over an hour as I can't face anything solid at that time of the morning

    There was a theory that training on empty for some of the middle-distance runs trained your body better for using its own resources and also for weight loss

    I'm missing getting out along the Bridgewater Canal now that the clocks have changed and it's too dark, so I'm back to purely street running which brings its own perils

    For the longer runs I took gel out with me while training for this year's marathon although I did experiment with jelly babies so may give a few things I try in the build up to the race on the longer runs as I didn't like gels on the whole

    Am now back to a consolidation phase prior to starting to increase the mileage again early-December

    Like skd14 I followed the Manchester Intermediate last time but increased a few of the longer runs and will do something similar this time around but may add back in a day on the cross trainer to give a bit of variety

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