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I'm not questioning the running style either, just the proposition that 'we' have lost the ability to run like this. Of course the people who heel strike, have found that to cause them problems with injury and decided to change their style to forefoot talk about it more, but I am actually agreeing with your statement that forefoot running is a 'natural' style and am suggesting that many - if not most - runners are happily getting on with it. Saying YOU probably heel-strike and WE need to re-learn to run is just a bit scaremongery.
If you look in the 'health and injury' section of this forum you will find lots of threads by people who have or are trying to transition from heel striking to forefoot running. But if you look in the established training and marathon threads, there are probably more posts by people who happily run in trainers most of the time, get some racing flats because they want to run faster in lightweight shoes, put them on and off they go - they don't have to transition or build up slowly, because they're already running forefoot.
And as velloo points out, my example was xc spikes, where senior races are about 5 miles for women and 6-8 miles for men. Again, you don't hear of many people buying their xc spikes weeks in advance and gradually practising until they can use them - you just get them out of the cupboard at the start of xc season and put them on. You might do a few sprints in your local park just to get used to the feel of them.
x-post with Ceal - Hi Ceal! I don't wear 'minimalist' shoes strictly speaking, but I do wear some quite lightweight shoes and I also have a narrow heel and otherwise broad, chubby feet like a toddler. I like the New Balance 890v3 - plenty of room across the front, and also the Saucony Kinvara 2 or 4 (but not 3, too tight).
ceal, I think shoes is where there is a mix and blurring of definitions being used. I would expect a 'barefoot' shoe to have a really roomy toe box - here I am thinking of shoes like vivobarefoot, xeroshoe, or perhaps Luna sandals
Then you move towards minimalist shoes by adding a tiny bit of cushioning- something like a Merrell Trail Glove.
Then you start to add on a small heel differential
Then you eventually get to me in my maximalist shoe coffin. I'm down with the kids.
I will be back much later today to continue the shoe discussion. Off now for a run then lunch in Falmouth, we are on holiday
Lucky you! I'm at work.
Dave,
The question is how long would you Nike shoes last?
I bought my Vibrams 4 years ago. I've ran approximately 12000 miles in them (1900km ballpark figure). They cost me €120. They have 2mm of sole which is now probably 1mm. They haven't frayed, they haven't torn, the sole hasn't come unglued, they haven't given me shin splints which I suffered from, they took me down from 54:00 to 39:00 for my 10k time in just over 14 months (of course in combination with other factors, cycling, eating habits etc). So there's something to be said about that.
I used to go through cheaper pairs of shoes once a year, maybe once every 8 months.
Thanks
The Forefoot Runner
Ceal,
Very valid points. Yes we have moved from 2 millions years of barefoot/forefoot running, to a jump in the 1970's to suddenly wear cushioned bricks on our feet, when in fact those thin gym shoes would work just fine.
I understand your concern about stony trails. I ran on trail a few months back in my Vibram's and I don't recommend it. There are people who can run barefoot on trails, I am not one of them however!
The site and this post is more about forefoot running and less about barefoot. I think barefoot is the more extreme view which even to me is questionable (do I want to get glass and any other man made object stuck in my feet?)...
It's an interesting point about finding the right shoes for women. I will look into that and either post some specific links on my page or write a blog about it. So I hope to shed some light on that for you.
Your other point is spot on too:
But of course injuries can occur due to bio-mechanical problems anywhere in the body not just from weak leg muscles.
Forefoot running requires long periods of time to strength those weak legs. And this is where most injury occurs.
Thanks for your input,
The Forefoot Runner
Lit,
I completely understand your point. And its not scaremongery, its a site of information designed to inform those who wish to look into the subject and of my experiences as a forefoot runner. Of course people who are forefoot runners will say "been there done that", and that's that. The site isn't designed for those people.
Thanks
I wear NB trail 1010 but I find them to be not wide enough across my toes, I end up with slightly uncomfortable 3rd and 4th end of toes on my left foot. They are quite a minimalist shoe. I have tried many shoes and indeed have a locker full of them. Saucony just don't fit my feet at all.
Also ran
Merrell's don't fit me either. My feet are quite difficult. My toes are quite wide apart from each other and need a lot of room.
I have tried Inno's no good either!
I need a shop that has many brands and sizes. Often the problem can be that the shop doesn't have the size I need. Runners Need have loads on their web site but when one goes to their store they have a fairly minimal range.
I have tried Newtons and actually quite like to run in them but they are too narrow across the toe box, but I have raced in them with no problems.
I found a minimalist track shoe (no spikes) by Adidas but they don't make it any longer.
I have trained on my stony trail in Mizuno wave riders and used them for pavement runs and in the past I have liked them because they were quite flexible. But my newest pair are much stiffer and I don't care for them.
I am sure nobody will have been at all interested in my negative comments about my running shoes.
However, if anybody can recommend a Store to me in London which has a very very very good stock of different brands and sizes of Ladies shoes I would be very grateful to know of it. I live in East Grinstead 'nuff said about any running shops there!
I look forward to reading anything you have to say about ladies running shoes.
A fair point - those nikes are more than 10 years old but have nowhere near the mileage of yours. My own vibrams (I did try a pair when I found some in the US for $40) lasted around 20 miles but that's because I decided they weren't for me. I got injured when I made a conscious effort to move to a more mid/fore foot style many years ago and although I persevered with that I've learnt to stick with what works for me, which are generally lightweight flats. Mizunos generally, although those mayflys were the ones I set my 10k pb in so they still come out now and again.
I own VFF Bikilas, zeroshoes (huaraches and Sensoris) and in my quest to transition to barefoot running I did read (in more than one place) that it was best to master barefoot running prior to going minimalist and can see the reasons why.
I also understand that it's not for some people - wouldn't the world be boring if we all did the same thing?
Andy, how did you manage to run such a fast 10k on just 10k a week training or were you training in different shoes?
Wannabebarefoot,
I would play hockey twice, cycle 3 times which gave me the cardio. So my 10km runs I would do every week (or most of them at least) I would run at my full pace. I never saw the point in running a "slow" 10km when I could run it fast.
I have only worn my regular trainers once in 4 years. And I hated it. I only run in my Vibrams, thus the high mileage in them.
I found the best way (for me anyway) was to do fast 10km runs, and/or interval training. 8kms with 1km splits, each at race pace. That was the best for me.
I also (I was learning the tricks of the trade at the time) took very long strides, which I think actually helped my legs but knackered my knees. So when I learnt to take shorter strides, land more below my body etc, I had good leg strength to do decent times and improve.
What's your 10km time? And what's your goal?
To now consistently achieve sub 40 minutes however I will need more of a structured routine and training plan.
Andy, after 2 years of running I've never raced a 10k, my best time in training is 56:56. I'm pleased with that (currently) and just seen my first ever 10k in training was 72 minutes so am improving. I guess a goal would be to enter a 10k but they are few and far between where I live, the next local one is August but will be doing the Half Marathon that day and want to get close to 2 hours (2:13 last year saw me as second local male home lol).
You certainly have a radical way of training! Imagine how fast you could go if you followed a 'normal' training plan
He would possible pick up an injured if he were to follow a normal pattern of training!!!!!!
I'm guessing with some planned training you should get under 50:00. But without a goal or a 10km race coming up its hard, I understand.
Good luck with the HM, I personally would train to get sub 2 hours. Its achievable if you follow a good plan. I don't know how you run (fast 10km, then slower 10km), but its a good goal in my opinion.
I am looking at including more training programs (currently they are specific to transitioning to forefoot running, but I will add more specific to 5km, 10km and HM runs).
Are you forefoot running now or transitioning?
I would suggest not changing anything now if you are doing a HM in August. Wait until after to start something.
If you need some guidance on the forefoot running, check out the intermediate plan. It might help you, although you might already be past that stage if you have already been forefoot running.
I would very much like to achieve a 10km time of 35:00, but daily life and training for that aren't mixing well at the moment, especially with two young ones. But I will do it, it's just a matter of time. I am looking at making myself a plan to achieve it.
What shoes are you wearing?
ceal - very possible!
Andy, you are correct, without goals it makes achieving things harder. I'm currently training for the Loch Ness Marathon (target is 4:22) shod in Brooks Vapor 10's. At my peak of transitioning to VFF's I managed 3 10ks a week for a couple of weeks but think that was too much too soon.
Shod in 'proper' shoes I'm still a heel striker, barefoot and in minimalist shoes I forefoot strike and find depending on the terrain it might look like midfoot striking. I've made a few (boring) videos but will try and get some decent slo-mo footage of me runnning - for me to see what I can improve as much as anything else.
Therefore, as a result of this decision, there are a lot of miles to be run in the training for a marathon. These miles, of course, are mainly done by beginners slowly. Nothing wrong in that except that running slowly promotes a heel strike.
So once the marathon has been completed the heel strike has been practised to perfection, helped by the shoes that have been worn. The shoes no doubt having been recommended by the running shops they were bought in. ( I am generalising here, not all running shops do that, although, certainly in the past they did).
I personally think that everybody who decides to run should run fast and naturally to start with, even if it means running for only intervals of 1 minute at a time then walking for a minute or whatever to recover. Then build up ones fitness like this until one can run continually, with some pace, for 30 mins or so. This together with wearing the shoes which will aid forefoot running should produce a natural forefoot action, which hopefully will be adopted when further distances are tackled.
It is certainly hard to heel strike when one is running fast!
That is just my opinion!
ceal, you described my recent entry into the running world to a T. It is like you tracked my running career over the past couple of years!
At school all those years ago I ran in plimsols and I imagine I ran with much more grace than I do today.
I wasn't peeping, honest I wasn't
Cecilia,
You nailed about short bursts of running. This is the best way to start forefoot running.
I am 30 years old, I've never worn plimsols, gym shoes or facing flats. Worth a try?
I'd love to give them a go!
I'll be blaming this thread f I can't walk tomorrow!
3 laps of the field barefoot (3/4 mile) my pet Lamb got tired chasing me. Then 5k in the VFF Bikilas - longest distance in them since January and a mixture of tarmac and stoney forest road - my calfs certainly had a work out today.
lol AR, I promise I won't come back here saying being barefoot puts me in tune with the Earths magnetic field
Andy,
Can't seem to embed a YouTube vid here so put a link to a slow motion vid of me running up one of my 'favourite' hills. Plenty more to do to get it right but only my 14th barefoot mile...
http://youtu.be/SJbzz-K8h1E