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From a PB point of view I am in a similar position with Dartmoor Vale. If I do Dartmoor Vale it's unlikely I'll PB (I knew this when I entered) but I'd hope to enjoy it as I'll run with some running buddies, it's a nice course and a well organised event.
Carl - more bad luck mate. You have had a good year and put in plenty of miles so maybe this break might not affect you too much. Personally, I would only enter a race if I could give it my all and try and get a PB. To pay out big bucks just to 'enjoy' the day is not for me ! That said, I do understand why people do enter purely for the enjoyment factor but it's not for me. In your situation, I think the financial outlay would be the deciding factor but then again I am currently living in the world of the Yorkshiremen and we know ho tight they can be !!
I'm in the ballot for London too but I'm trying not to think too far ahead considering how things have turned out for me this year. My focus has got to be on getting my knee sorted before I think about which race I want to enter.
Tough one Carl.
oneone hand I would be a bit like carter and would not enter unless I had a reasonable shot at a PB.
However in your case I think a PB is still very much on the cards based on your recent training performances. Missing a week is not a disaster in the grand scheme of things. I would just pick out the quality sessions from the missed week (long run in particular) and try and fit them in to the coming 2 weeks(P&D usually have 2 recovery runs a week so replace one of these with a missed quality session)
If you can do this I don't think the missed week will have any impact - the enforced rest might even have done you good!
Busy week again for me so had to squeeze in sessions with a double yesterday:
10mls MLR @ 6.15am at 8.40 pace followed by 8.3mls with 5x800 session in the evening. 800 session was the toughest session I've done so far - not helped by tired legs from morning session. Ran the 5 800's at an even 6.36 pace.
Good drills there Ricky. Double headers are a bitch but hugely beneficial.
Carl - I don't think you should overthink your missing week, I missed a week a little while back and ran 3 marathon distances as well as my normal training in 22 days. Think of it another way, you ave given your body, though clearly not your mind a week, to recuperate so should be good to go for your last few weeks of training. As Carter said you have plenty in the bank mileswise so don't sweat it.
Maintain the quality of your training and you'll be just dandy I'm sure.
Carl- when I had to miss a week about a month back I felt it did me a great deal of good as I needed the rest. It certainly didn't hinder performance. I have performed better in every race or long run since the week off, than the the two races just before it. You may be overestimating how much impact one week off has. Even pros sometimes take a week off then go back to racing fairly soon after.
Hi Andrew, lol! As I have said I have been called a lot worse and often get called Nellie…I will look forward to hearing how you get on at Brighton as I have thought of that one before after hearing good reports and I could tie it in with a visit to my sister in Croydon…You are very organized I must say! Good to see you getting back into the swing of things with the runs too :0) I always find I run better in the morning as opposed to after work.
Hi Carl, I am a bit in the same boat as you this week. I decided to have a quiet week this week as I ran a few pacey sessions last week and the legs were feeling a bit tired. I have had another busy week at work and so far this week I have just ran a 4 mile hill session and a slow 5 mile run with a pal who is getting back into running. I am also going away for the weekend visiting relatives, so will at best get a 10 mile run in on Sunday morning (if I can get up early!)and nothing else. So I don’t think I will hit too many miles this week. Today is slipping away and I have football later. Hopefully I will get a run in Friday morning. I am resisting feeling short changed by the whole affair and thinking that the rest week is aiding in recharging the legs and making me stronger.
I suppose I haven’t got very big ambitions for the marathon I am running as it is from Alnwick to Bamburgh and will be undulating to say the least! I have been on a 12 week plan and my run is on 27th Oct. I am approaching the run in a manner as to enjoying it. Saying that I could get anything hit me on the NE coast!
You have been doing some serious miles lately Carl and I am sure a week out will not hurt you too much, there are still 6 odd weeks left to get some good running in.
Positive thoughts…..
Right now back to it
All thanks for all your kind words. If I can salvage something from this week and get a decent LR in then maybe I will start feeling a little more confident.
When I originally thought of Dublin, my sister was living there. So accomodation was a zero cost. Just the flight. But she has recently moved over to Swindon area so need the hotel as well. So it is along way to go and more expensice just to turn up and enjoy it.
If it was down the road, I could turn up and do my best. If a PB was not on the cards then no worries as it is only down the road. But this is a 2 day trip so I need to be up for it and at least able to stand on the start line with the possibility of a PB.
Too much thinking.
Positive thoughts needed. Yes I have done some reasonable training and maybe 6 more weeks is enough time. I will need to modify my training plan to focus on getting some 20 milers in. P&D only gives me 2 and one of them clashes with my HM on 6th October. Maybe I will have to adopt the Oirish approach and just go out and run 26 miles for 3 weekends on the hop !!!
You have done more than 'reasonable' training Carl. Who ever has a totally perfect approach to a marathon? I think 6 weeks is plenty.
If I pulled out of every race where the training had been interrupted by something, I probably wouldn't have done many lol!
Ali - you are probably right. None of my marathons Sao far have had the perfect run in (pardon the pun) so I am hoping that once I get a LR in I will settle down and the confidence will build again. I need to re focus the remainder of the 6 weeks to get some 20 milers in, some tempos and intervals.
I checked online last night and flight is 90 return and hotel (same as Ricky) is 52. So if I get the run in this weekend I will book and make the commitment.
Had half thougtvt about going out for a 3 mile jog tonight but as it is chucking it down out there I think it is feet up in front of the telly.
If anyone is out there tonight be careful.
Good stuff Carl, that's more like it.
i think you over think things too much and should have faith in your running ability and the hard work you have done, which has seen you churn out some amazing times since I've been on this thread.
Thanks Ali
That's more like you Carl. Get the long un in this weekend and you'll be fine - Wud be great to meet up in Dublin! The white Kenyan is in a similar dilemma to you - aiming for Dublin but hasn't committed yet as a feels he's not in PB or GFA (3:15) shape pffff!!
I have something in the region of 17-20mls planned for the morning. Staying up on the causeway coast this weekend so might incorporate some coastal trails around the giants causeway.
AliBali - the white Kenyan is a big bit of bloke in the region of 16+ stones but head scratchingly knocks out cracking race times. His HM PB this year is 1:33; 10k - 42mins and a 3:17 in Dublin last year! He does not hail from any African country never mind Kenya but I think he mut have the heart & lungs of a Kenyan athlete - he just needs a body transplant and he will be a world beater
He's off to the North East this weekend to run GNR - he is racing against his brother and in his own words plans to 'empty the well' in an effort to beat him.
Carter - in response to your comment earlier in the week re: adjusting my marathon goal.... it is tempting and, although prediction calculators suggest sub 3:30 should be doable based on last Sundays HM time, I think I will err on the side of caution and stick with 8:20 pace as planned. I made the same mistake in Limerick and paid for it after mile 20!
I just had the most enjoyable long run to date. Not the fastest of routes but some amazing scenery.
Coastal paths & trails out the Giants Causeway (locally known as the 8th wonder of the world!) - up a cliff path with 162 (I counted) steep steps to the top. Views across to Scotland, down the coast road past the famous Dunluce Castle, dropped down past Royal Portrush Golf course onto the beautiful whiterocks beach and ran to Portrush. Back along The coast rd to portballintrae and through Bushmills past the famous whiskey distillery.
Took it easy as it was a tough route. Ended up 20.4 miles in 3:09 avg pace 9.19
anyone else running long this weekend?
Ricky - sounds like the perfect run and at a good long run pace too. Every report from your training confirms that you are in great shape and I agree with Carter that a sub 3:30 is on the cards for you in Dublin. But I think your race strategy is a sensible one. Start of just under 3:40 pace and see where you are after the first half. That way you stand a better chance of that strong finish that is needed to get in under the magical 3:30. it would be great if someone on here was able to get there as it would give hope to the rest of us.
it is still a bit miserable here today but I am hoping to get out later. We will see.
Due to time constraints this week I found myself having to do back-to-back longish runs, which I haven't done before. Anyway, I did 10 flattish miles (9min/mile) last night after work and then tagged along for a club run this morning where I got 15.5 in (10min/mile, including regrouping), with plenty of hills. I'm quite pleased actually as I feel ok and feel I've got my long run 'out of the way'. I know it's not the same as say a 20 miler but I'm happy. I think I'm going to have a few cheeky beers this afternoon
Hi all
Great run Ricky- sounds really enjoyable. I think you are going to smash 3:30 personally. You are just doing so so well just now.
Big G- impressive back to back.
Running has been a bit chaotic for me this week. Annoyingly got sent to Dublin yesterday for work at quite short notice. I had to travel down to Edinburgh straight from work on Thursday night, then get an early flight out on Friday morning, only getting back to Aberdeen late last night. I had planned to run both Thu/Fri so having those ruled out pissed me off.
However- today after work I decided to go for a quick visit to the gym. Couldn't do much as it was late but I did do a quick 15 minutes and 3.2km, so just a short but fast run and I enjoyed it a lot. Then did a few weights and stretches and finished off. Wasn't meant to be a running day today at all but this week hasn't gone to plan.
Tomorrow I'm doing my last long run before Loch Ness- 15 miles on the schedule which I'll easily manage. Looking forward to it. Can't believe things have come around so quickly.
Good doubling there BigG - as we are away this weekend I too indulged in a few cheeky carlsbergs last night!
Hope you got out yesterday Carl as it is tipping it down here this morning. Forecast not good for GNR either this morning.
AliBali sub 3:30 would be amazing but still a bridge too far I fear - I will be delighted with sub 3:40 . Bit of a nitemare with work for you this week - hope you avoid the wind & rain on your 15 miler today. Blowing an absolute gale here now
So you are now on taper for Loch Ness after today?
On the club run yesterday I got talking to a runner who in his day was quick (2hr34 marathon). It was fascinating talking to him and I know techniques may have changed since his day as his PB was 30 years ago. Basically though when I asked what his key sessions were, he did LSRs at 1.5min/mile over his goal pace and did extremely tough (his words) four or five by 1 mile intervals where the intervals were maybe 30-45 seconds quicker than his goal pace. This session was great for the mental side of things as well, knowing he could push through the pain and maintain a pace. Those were his two main weekly sessions, plus a 10 mile "time trial" where he knew the mile markers (this was before GPS), which was also tough. He did reel off his other sessions, and I didn't spot any rest days although I may have missed it. He was doing 65ish miles a week at this point.
Interestingly, he said it wasn't initially a conscious decision for him to do his LSRs at the pace he did. He kept very detailed notes and when he went back over them at one point he noticed the 1.5 mins slower than goal pace calulcation, so stuck with it.
He also said that what worked for him didn't work for others that were at his kind of level in his club, and vice versa. He just did what worked for him. For example, he trained himself not to take any water at all when racing a marathon as he said taking water slowed him down. People at his club said he should be taking water as they thought he'd do even better, but he tried it and it didn't work for him. When he did ultras, he did take "liquid food" but I'm not sure what that was.
He did share my view about the shame that there were no British men who turned up for the recent World Championships and he put the blame squarely with the "suits" who run athletics, who he doesn't think care enough about road running and do little to bring athletes on.
I felt a bit embarassed talking to him about my goals when he asked me (sub-4 mara and sub 1:40 half) as they are very slow compared to his times, but he was great and unassuming and just happy to chat about things. His main goal at the moment is to do 1500 miles this year (which he is on target for), and I beleive he is doing the Club Championship and chipping away at a timed course he runs regularly with the club.
He did write a great piece in the club magazine a few months ago so I'm going to dig that out and have another read through. The level of hard work and dedication to get to these sort of times is amazing. I just worked out what a 2hr34 marathon would be - that is averaging under 6 min/mile! Unbelievable.
Was definitely tapering already ricky, my last really long run was a fortnight ago. This week mileage has been very much lower, and last week it was a bit lower with my last HM at the end.
i will just hold my tongue then till Dublin, I think everyone will see you produce a great time.
g- no matter what complex training plans people come up with, running is by nature a simple sport and can be approached in a very individual way as your club mate shows.
Your story of him taking no water reminds me of edinburgh, where I took no fuel (only sips of water) throughout the race. I hadn't trained with fuel and had hardly trained taking out drinks with me either so just did what I was used to on the day of the race itself.
and I did 4:04 in a day of blistering heat, 26 degrees and no shade. My goal was 4:30 for my first marathon, and I smashed it. I just did what I had trained to do.
Since then I have started to train with more water, and gels/sugary things and they have helped a lit at times. But I am yet to emulate the success of Edinburgh! Moral of the story- listen to your body, it is normally right.
Big G - great back to back sessions from you and a fascinating insight into pure dedication from the chap you chatted to. There is no doubt that running is not a precise science. Too many variables. But running long slow runs at a consistent pace is key (not that I always folow that rule), getting some really hard interval sessions in also seems key, and the other ingredient seems to me relatively high mileage. It then comes down to how you manage to blend all of that and staying injury free.
Now I have sortof being following P&D but teh 12 week plan not the 18 week plan. It gets to 55mile in a week only once and is mainly in the high 40's. It also has less interval running than my spring training plan. It seems to have a bigger focus on MP in the long runs. It also has less 20 mile runs than most other plans.
Not sure that it has got the balance right for me.
I am going to go back to using my spring marathon plan for the remainder of the 6 weeks as I want to get more interval training in as I think this is key.
But as you say it is about what works for you. Sounds like you have a really nice running club. I am definitely going to join one once I have done Dublin as I think it will help focus the harder training sessions.
Ali - sometimes it is hard to fit everything in as planned as life carries on around us. But you have put the training in now and a missed session here and there during taper is not all that bad.
Great to hear the confidence around your 15 miler. You have probably completed it by now.
Like you I think Ricky is gonna do amazing. He is benefitting from building a really strong base during the winter, ran a great few races including his marathon and has just carried on through the summer. Just shows what the benefits of staying injury free are.
And yes I did get out yesterday. Am really feeling it today. Have not felt like this after a run for sooooooo long. So much so taha I am going to have to do a recovery run later.
I really had no idea what distance I was up for yesterday so initially set myself a target of getting to 5 miles. I choose a slightly different route from normal and this climbed 350ft from mile 1 through mile 4.
Having no set distance in mind, I was caught between running it at LSR pace or something close to MP. I opted for close to MP on the basis that with no running during the week something a bit faster was probably needed.
So I covered the first 5 miles in 8:24; 8:39; 8:44; 8:59 and 8:15
Around this point I decided that I was going to try and keep this pace up certainly for 10 miles and hopefully 15 miles. A bit mad but thats me at times.
Miles 5 - 10 were not too bad and I must say I was feeling quite strong which I found surprising. Paces were 8:27; 8:13; 8:36; 8:24 and 8:22.
As I worked out a route that would get me home for about 15 miles, I was wondering when the pace would catch up with me. It did during mile 13 and finishing was tough as I effectively ran out of steam. But I did get to 15 miles so that is a result.
Pace for miles 11 -15 were 8:33; 8:22; 8:22; 8:28 and 8:34.
Overall this was 15 miles at 8:29 pace. Really chuffed with that even if it is not in any training plan.
I guess it has given me some confidence that I can do this even if my head is telling me that I have not done enough miles. But it is a tough pace to hold onto for so long.
The quads have been a little delicate today and once my OH comes back from the gym I will do a short recovery run.
If I was able to keep that up for the full 26.2 miles that would give me a time of 3:42 and that would be amazing. So I am going to train with an 8:30 min/mile MP in mind and see how I feel on the day.
Going to book flights and hotel later. Dublin here I come .......
Wow Carl!!! I am so impressed! What a great pace to do for 15 miles. Seriously, if you can do that pace for 15 miles in training, then you are well on track to doing a 3:42 marathon... I have just done a 15 miler myself today but you've put me to shame with that cracking effort
I went for my 15 miler today and as it was last LR before Loch Ness I didn't want to go too fast so set off with 10 min/mile pace in mind. I know a route that I know from mapping it online was approx 15 miles, just a 7.5 mile out and back stretch through lovely countryside, so I set off for that. Took my phone to use RunKeeper so I could see at the end my pace anyway.
After a couple miles warm up I could tell I was feeling really good and sped up a little, knew I was doing a bit faster than 10 min/mile. In the middle of the run I did get a bit silly and was flying along but soon reigned myself in. Glad I did because the last few miles I found really tough.
Splits 10:33, 10:19, 9:43, 9:45, 9:10, 9:10, 7:48 (come on Ali that was silly), 9:07, 9:13, 9:42, 9:10, 9:37, 9:56 (starting to get tough), 10:30, 9:32 and the last 0.27 at 9:06
Whole thing ended up being 15.27 miles, average pace 9:32. Time 2:25:38. Actually think it was a bit quicker than that as I stopped quite a few times for a fair bit at traffic lights etc on the way- and by the looks of it my AutoPause function wasn't totally working because I would actually have been 'running' for a bit less time than RunKeeper says.
The one thing that ALWAYS makes me nervous/I can't get my head around, is how we can train at one pace, and run races at such a substantially higher pace.
I mean today's run, much as I enjoyed it, felt HARD! And even though I've done many races in my time and seen the pattern- you train at one pace, you race harder, I still don't understand it... and it still scares the shits out of me!!!
Someone else tell me they know what I mean?!
Ali - the difference between our 15 milers is that you would not find any training plan saying that as you have not run for a week, do out and run as fast as you can for 15 miles. Yours at least (apart from one seriously fast mile) was more of a text book LSR.
Great final LSR from you.
And yes it is odd that some training runs at a slower than MP pace seem much tougher. Now I have no idea why that is but it just is. I am sure that there will be at least one on here who has the answer to this.
Back in a mo. Tea is up. But I did get a recovery run in earlier. It was wild and wet, seriously wet. Again a bit of an unusual recovery run. 5k first at just below 5k pace and then 3 miles slower.
It's been very wild and wet here too, but I seemed to catch the afternoon's only sunny(ish) spell on my run! Was still pretty gusty though. I was getting blown about side to side some of the way.
hope the weather hasn't stopped everyone from running today... Oirish has probably gone and done a double marathon just for the hell of it
So my 5k splits were 8:21; 7:54 and 7:24. 3.14 miles in total in 24:39 which equates to 7:51min/mile.
Not too bad for a recovery run ....
Followed this with 3 miles at 9min/mile pace. A little bit more sensible I hear you all say.
Legs feel much better after this so pleased that it had the desired effect.
But it was a wild one. My trainers are wet through. Going to have to invest in a second pair soon if this kind of weather persists.
Rest day tomorrow.
I am going to have to have a long hard think about this weeks training. I have some work things on that will probably get in the way. But I am looking to get a tempo / LT run in; a MLR, some interval training on the track and then looking to get a 20 mile LSR in next weekend.
Carl - yes, I think I've fallen in to a great club. There is a guy in my club who is currently knocking on the door of sub 2:40 for the mara. The bloke I was speaking to yesterday has given this guy all of his old training diaries etc etc. I think I've found the right balance for me in a club; they train hard, but there is also a great social side too with BBQs, away trips, birthday parties etc etc.
My wife did a Ladies 10K today in an event I was marshalling at that is organised by my club (she PBd in 52mins15secs which she was delighted with!). She is thinking she wants to join the club too, which I'm chuffed about. I've been "chipping away" at getting her to join, so I'm really pleased she is now seriously thinking about it.
I agree with what you say as well about trying to find what is best for you. I keep half an eye on the P&D threads and other info on here and I'm put off a bit by P&D as there seems to be a fairly high level of people who get injured or who become a slave to it and lose the enjoyment. I have got the book and there are some great things in there, but on balance I'm still not sure if it's for me even though I know a lot of people who have had success from it.
Good running Ali! Enjoy the taper!
Thanks G
Well done to your wife on her race today!
From what I've seen about P&D it is fairly regimented and takes a lot of dedication. My record of sticking to training plans is haphazard at best as things always seem to get in the way, so no matter how good a plan it is, I think that there is no point in me looking to more complex plans than I've been following (the Runners World ones)
For those who can follow correctly and avoid injury, it looks to work marvellously.
Hi all.
Yet again another weekend of fantastic running. Everyone seems in a good place with their respective training and I can only concur with what has been said before.
For the record I follow a slightly bastardised version of a Runnersworld training programme but I am also a great believer in sticking up two fingers to it on occasion. Carl is ample proof with his slightly looney 15 miler that sometimes you need to do something that is more about improving the mind rather than the body. A confidence boost no matter in what shape or form it comes in can only be a good thing.
I did a 9 mile run and a 10k race yesterday, well I say race I was pacing a friend and nearly got her in under an hour but missed out by 10 seconds. I was gutted but she was ecstatic as it took nearly six minutes off her previous PB. I then went back for another friend who I did the last half mile with and she too had PB'd. I was nearly hoarse afterwards. I try to keep it simple and conversation to a minimum but give it loads in the last kilometer and at the finish I'm barking like a drill sergeant. I got sprint finishes out of both of them, so I must have done something right.
Saturday was a pacing event at Parkrun and I was tasked with pacing 23 minutes. God it was tricky, because it's a hilly course and I am pretty good on hill climbing I kept getting ahead of myself! They wanted me to finish about 10 seconds faster than my target time but it ended up nearer 35, having said that the runners who were using me as a target smashed their PBs, even if I did nearly kill one gentleman, he looked like a ghost at the finish.
I'll be nursing a sore foot for the next 48 hours or so , I've a touch of Peroneal Tendonitis in my left foot. Fingers crossed it'll respond well to treatment. The weather is pish here so I don't feel too despondent not running.