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RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00
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Ali - great running from you too today. Glad you are pleased with the outcome even if you were just marginally outside the target you had set. Sounds like a tough set of condirions with the muddy trails and the headwinds but you coped really well. It must have been a little disconcerting not having the mile markers for you to check your pace.
Interesting point you have brought up about endurance and speed. I guess this is why it is important to build a good base level of endurance and then a targetted training plan around running longer, including some HM or MP runs in it and then doing some speedwork (tempo and intervals) to become a running machine capable of running long at a good steady pace.
Hope you enjoyed the post race food and drink.
Carter - meant to say congrats on getting over 30 iles in this week. You must be feeling really pleased with yourself and yes that Magners was probably well deserved. Have you settled on Manchester for next year then and if so when do you start your training proper ? What plan are you going to follow this year ? Similar to last year ?
So I got out there and did 12 miles today. It was quite chilly by the time I finished.
I had no fixed pace in mind when I started but once I was about 2 miles in I decided that I was oing to try and go sub 8:30min/mile average over the 12 miles.
Splits as below.
8:44; 8:35; 8:33; 8:11; 8;41; 8:42;
8:22; 8:00; 8:17; 8:07; 8:11; 7:40
giving 8:21min/mile average.
I am beginning to enjoy this route even if it is tough with the hills. I am going to try and incorporate into my long runs when marathon training. Clearly will need to slow down early doors to make it an LSR
But really pleased to knock that out particularly as I did not get the running in that I was hoping to during the week. And getting a fast last mile felt great.
Carl- brilliant run there! Definitely a good shout for marathon training...and for those longer runs can add some on to it.
Ali - as Carl said, good running! It must have been a bit disconcerting not knowing how many miles had gone by. At least you're getting a GPS for Xmas
Having said that, I have occasionally gone out for a run without GPS and in some ways it is quite liberating, but I've never done that on a race.
It's interesting what you say about the speed, as I'm feeling similar really, or at the very least I feel I've stagnated. That is one of the reasons why I've entered a few races early next year, as it will act as a gauge to see how I am doing. I find that no matter how hard I try, I can never mimic the effort in training that comes in a race situation.
Carter - I think it was a confidence thing on the downhills as I was constantly feeling like I was "braking" as opposed to letting myself go. The steep section was more stoney than muddy and I was really wary of falling over, but I didn't feel that I was struggling with grip as such. I hope I'd get better with practice, but I'm not sure, and If I start doing more of these I'll certainly look into other shoes as well.
Carl - nice running there. Getting some hills in is a good thing, I reckon
For info, my official time was 1:34:06, which I'm happy with. The chap I was hoping to follow finished in 1:30:41 so that's something to keep in mind for me, as we're similar on the road. Also, if I had known I was going to do the event in advance, I wouldn't have done a 12-miler on Friday and a fairly quick parkrun yesterday so there is room for improvement I'm sure.
Here is a quick pic snapped by a club mate who was spectating. I suppose I don't look too bad here, which is rare for a running pic of me
G- I have definitely stagnated at half marathon. My top time for HM was in February this year, my second best time was September 2012...so as you can see over the last year there's been little progress and sometimes I even feel I'm getting slower!
However there are other things I've been happy with, the marathon was the biggest goal of mine and I've achieved sub 4 which has been a huge aim for a long time, one I hoped I'd make in London but didn't, but I was patient and 5 months later it came right. I've also made progress over shorter distances and am really happy with my 5k time. I think I actually find the marathon EASIER than the half marathon, I have concluded recently....I have good endurance over a very long distance but less ability to combine speed and mid endurance.
But I do wonder what I have to do to do a good HM again... probably spend a year focussing on the HM instead of the full, but that's something I would feel sad to do. Realistically I know I need to put more work in at good pace; just now my runs with speed are all too short and I need to do some decent length runs with plenty HM pace chucked in.
Also G although I'm a bit slower than you I think we're quite similar in training in some ways in that we find it hard to get that 'racing speed' into our training regimes. I probably train too slow.
All good stuff Ali & BigG! Great pic BigG - you look very comfortable at that point!
Ali - sounds like a tough run and you got close to you goal time given the weather, course etc - very well done!
Brisk stuff Carl - you are good shape which bodes well as you approach Spring Marathon training.
10.5 miler for me this morning with 6 miles of killer hills from 1.5 - 7.5 mile mark ..... slow warm up mile of 9.40 but a decent effort on the inclines gave us an 8.22 avg pace for the run. It felt tough in the middle hilly section but felt very strong at the end with last mile 7.20 pace.
Big_g - I agree with you about running at speed downhill when it's muddy and there are rocks about. The specialist trail shoes must help but as you say confidence plays a big part in it. You were looking pretty good in the photo considering you had run the previous two days. Do you feel that trail running is helping your running and will you use it in your future training ?
Ali - a great run from you today. I think it was only a few weeks since Loch Ness so to run such a good time fairly soon after a marathon is great going. As you say, you may need to focus your training specifically for running a half but I guess it's all about what your priorities are. Nevertheless, another great run from you.
Ricky - great average pace where you took in some killer hills. What race is next up for you ?
Carl - one of your previous posts alerted me to the fact that Manchester is on 06/04 next year, which is 3 weeks earlier than last year. While I haven't entered it yet, and won't until nearer the time, I have spent this afternoon coming up with my training plan. Basically, I am starting it tomorrow so it is a 20 week plan. It is based on Spoons' plan from last year but with a couple of tweaks. The differences this year are: one speed session per week rather than 2, less miles than the P&D plan (I peak at 52 miles and only go above 50 three times), getting to my 20 milers earlier in the plan but not running that far for 2 consecutive weeks. And I'm not racing in the build up (it may be that racing 3 halves flat out contributed to my injury ?). And most importantly, I think, is that im going to ensure I have my cut back rest weeks where I intend to only run 3 times per week and cut right back compared to last time. I feel trying to protect the knee is going to be key to me getting to the start line. I have been singing the praises of running what I want and when I want recently but I am really looking forward to properly follow a training plan again.
G- that's a great photo btw.
Ricky- good run with the hills, is it quite hilly where you live? You seem to get a lot of decent hill runs in.
Carter- wise training plan, I think given history with HMs and injuries you are smart to avoid going all out on racing before your big goal race. One priority at a time and all that.
Here is the least flattering running shot I have seen of me in a little while from the uphill finish of today's race. There were lots of photographers out and about today on the course and having checked out the shots there isn't a single one of me where I don't look both chunky and in pain. http://imgur.com/wkvKKgY
Carter - I'm not sure if the trail running is helping overall yet, but I hope it is. I've only done 3 runs in the shoes so far (a coastal path, a parkrun and yesterday's race) but I hope to do more. I've enjoyed the runs I have done though and at the very least it's opening up more training routes and potential races for me.
The strange thing is that after yesterday's race, my triceps were the things that hurt, which I've never had before
I guess that shows that I was pretty tense in my upper body, which again is another learning point for me. When I'm running on the road I have a kind of check list that I go through to check my form etc, including "relax the shoulders", but all that went out the window on the run yesterday 
My thoughts were more along the lines of 'Watch out for that rock!', or 'Shiiiiiittttt - I feel out of control going down here!".
Regarding next year, I'm really in at least three minds and I don't yet know what to do really. I'd love to get a sub-4 on the marathon, but as I'm writing this that isn't my main goal (please don't bannish me from this thread
). If (and it's a big if) I get into London I'll do it though. Other than that, I have one marathon in mind but I haven't entered it yet, and at the moment it's 50/50 if I do enter it.
I think my two main goals are 1) to enjoy running and 2) to try and get that elusive sub-1:40 on the half. I am hoping 1) will take care of itself, especially if I do the Club Championship as it will mean I'm racing regularly and meeting up with my club mates a lot. Ultimately, 2) may or may not happen, but I feel it's within striking distance on the right day with some specific training (a quick reminder is that my current PB is 1:42:02, and I know 2+ minutes is a lot to knock off but I think it may be possible for me).
My trouble is that I don't really know what half-marathon specific training looks like, but I'm planning on focussing on intervals (at 5K or 10K pace) and hill sessions as my quality sessions (one or two a week), throw in some half marathon-paced miles in my longer runs and the other sessions just run easy. I want to keep parkrun going reguarly, so just use that as a tempo-paced run most weekends with an occasional weekend of "giving it some".
If I do the Club Championship though, I'm not sure how that would all fit together. I'll only know that when the races are published in December.
Big_G - it certainly can be quite difficult working out what races to run, there are so many to chose from. There is one weekend in July where I saw 5 races I wanted to run on the same day.
So, Day 1 of my 20 week marathon plan succesfully completed with a rest day. A 12 miler this evening in the cold to look forward to.
Carter - what have you got me in to!!
I was looking around and came across an off road race this weekend called the Bicton Blister. Apparently it's another very good one, so I'm thinking of giving it a go. I have heard of these races before, but usually I don't even look at them. Anyway, the online entries have passed, but I can enter on the day if I wish. I'm tempted
Carter - good luck with the 12-miler today.
I had a rest day yesterday, but my rough plan for this week is 8-10 easy tonight, club hill rep session Wednesday, 6-8 easy Thursday/Friday, parkrun Saturday (attempted pace to be decided, but it probably won't be raced), 8-10 Sunday, which may end up being the race I mentioned above.
Big_G - there is the Bideford Bay 50km in September as well -
http://beaconrunning.org.uk/Carter - a mere 50km, hey? I think I'll be glossing over that one!
Big G - well done - sounds like fun!
Ali - nice half marathon - tempo runs, progressive runs and long reps (mile or 2 miles) are the things to work on speed over a longer distance.
Carl - good running from you too
Carter - I know some people do a 20 one week, then a 13 (or similar) the next. This aids recovery and thus decreases injury risk.
Big G - If I race hard (not often
) I often get back, shoulders, arms problems afterwards.
Evening all.
Well today I have run 20 minutes in total which consisted of running to and from the gym. At the gym I was working on my spinning class which I'm getting assessed on soon, so was practicing my tracks and going over it again and again. Ended up spending 1 hour 20 on the bike practicing routines, then did a few arm weights to even things off (my legs are decidedly too chunky just now) before running home.
1 hour 40 mins total cardio might not have been the most traditional recovery two days after a half marathon but I feel just fine and don't have a lot of time this week to fit in any workouts so I did enjoy giving the gym a good blast!
G- we won't kick you off this thread as long as.... you coach me down to your Half Marathon time! Deal? There we go a compromise and we'll both be happy.
Carter- how was your 12 miler?
Oh and PS:
Anyone doing a Xmas Day parkrun? Me and my mum and my dad have decided to go to the Edinburgh one- I will be down that way on Xmas day and fancy the idea of getting a new PB on Christmas!
Also the temptation of running in a Santa hat is very strong.
Ali - the 12 miler didn't go to badly ta. There is a gentle ascent from mile 3 - 5 which I made steady progress up and the whole run averaged 9:20 although it did feel a bit quicker. Nonetheless, happy with it. It was chuffing cold out there tonight and I struggled to warm up, more layers required. Headtorch was also used as I went down a couple of dark country lanes. Glad to be back in marathon training
Ha ha, Ali! Unfortunately, I've come to the realisation that the majority of the gains I saw this year with my Half time (I saw it drop from 1hr55 to 1hr42) were mainly due to weight loss as opposed to any revolutionary training regime
Now the hard work is needed to trim off those 2 minutes (and 2 seconds....I mustn't forget the 2 seconds!!).
I don't expect I'll be doing an Xmas day parkrun, but I may well go out for a run on Xmas day. My wife and I did that last Xmas day along the seafront and it was good
Actually, last December I did a "running streak" where I ran every day of the month, but I'm not planning on doing that this year. I'm not really sure why I did it last year, as it seems a stupid idea now!
I can't remember if I said, but my wife and I are doing a "Santa Run" 5K organised by a local charity in December. It is mandatory that everyone dresses up as Father Xmas, and the outfit is part of the entry fee. It's £13 which is a lot for a 5K, but it's a bit of a laugh and for a good charidee.
Carter - I did a 10-miler earlier, and it was very cold here too. I went out with the intention of doing about 9:30min/mile, but I pressed on in the last 2 miles (8:12 & 7:31) as I was so cold and wanted to get home as quickly as possible!
Well G you might just inspire me because I could really do with losing some weight too.
I don't know how much I actually weigh, and I am still only a size 10, but I do know that I am naturally a much smaller frame than I am right now. I would estimate in the last year I've maybe put on a stone, and I could really do with losing it. Certainly I was a good bit smaller when I ran my PB from February of 1:48.
So I am going to make a big effort- give that a go and hope that it helps my running times as well as making me feel a bit better.
On Xmas Day me and my mum have always gone for a run together- even when I was less into running- it's always been a bit of a tradition.
But this year now my dad's back into his running too we'd like to make it a family event at parkrun. I'd like to try and persuade my sister to do it too but she might not be so keen. Though she was a great runner as a youngster/teenager- she was a fab sprinter and a natural athlete- she'd probably beat me still!!!
Your Santa run sounds fun, I might do similar. There is a 6k (odd distance) Santa Run in Aberdeen.
Ali - If I don't keep an eye on it, I can put weight on very quickly (I like food
) A few days in Bruges resulted in me putting 3 or 4 lbs on, but I know I can fairly quickly get it back off again if needed.
I've read around this a bit in the past and seen things quoted like "You'll add 2 seconds a mile or 1 minute a marathon for every pound over your ideal weight". I'm not sure exactly how accurate the statement is but, if true, it made me realise that most of my gains on the halfs have been due to weight loss.
I confess I used to obsess a bit about it, but then at one point I was the wrong side of 17stone so had a lot to obsess about!! I'm now at around 12st10 and I don't really worry about it anymore as at 6ft 3 this well within the BMI healthy range. The only time I keep a closer eye on it is when I'm injured and can't train. Having said that, for my last marathon I did purposefully drop down to 12st7 which was quite hard to do, not that it did me any good in terms of my finish time! 12st10 is relatively easy for me to maintain if I'm training 4 or 5 times a week and I can still have the odd beer/takeaway when I want (that's the important thing!)
Changing the subject entirely, we went to the cinema last night to see Philomena (starring Judi Dench and Steve Coogan). I won't give any spoilers incase anyone is planning on see it except to say it was very sad, but a great film.
Big_G/Ali - I have no intention of running on Christmas Day so you too are welcome to it, fair play to you
I have already got my plan in place for what and when I need to run over the festive period. Just got to do it now. Re weight, I am about 2 stone heavier than I would ideally like to be so that means about 30 mins over a marathon due to the extra lard I'm carrying.
Legs are aching a bit today but getting better as the day passes. Tomorrow sees my first tempo run of the plan which will be 1 mile w/u and c/d plus 3 miles at a tempo pace. Last time I did tempo runs I did them to fast so, as I haven't done one for quite a while, I reckon it will take a couple of attempts to find the right pace. And I'm expecting it to hurt !
It's snowing here in Sheffield ! Anyone else had any yet ?
Started yesterday in aberdeen. Sod off snow.
No snow here. Just cold and wet.
No snow here.
It chucked it down with rain last night and it was very cold. If it had been a session on my own, I may not have headed out. However, it was a club session so that forced me out and I'm glad I went in the end. It was a tough hill-repeat session which I find tough, but strangely enjoyable
I've just been on my first tempo run in months which is the first in my 20 week Manchester plan. I did 5 and a bit miles with mile 2 @ 7:03 and mile 4 @ 7:14. I think my tempo pace will be 7:15 and as I didn't look at my watch at all I was not too far off the pace. The legs felt like jelly half way through the first mile so decided to have a slow mile in between rather than try and run the 3 @ tempo I was planning on. Obviously, I'm behind where I have been previously but at least I'm off to a decent start.
Carter - that is really good stuff. must feel great to be doing proper marathon training again !!
Any way I now know that I will not be running in either Paris or Connemara marathons as I have an invite to a footie match the day before. My little boy would never forgive me as he can go too. A box for the Liverpool vs West Ham match at Upton Park.
So this also means that my marathon is most likely going to be in May which gives me loads more weeks before I have to really contemplate the training.
Decisions, decisions ......
Good going Carter - good brisk tempo pace.
.... haven't run since and to be honest haven't felt able too. A little concerning to say the least - will rest up another few days and see if things improve.
Carl - can't pass up a box at Upton Park for sure! At least it narrows your choices - what's favourite now then?
Very sore glutes after club session on Tuesday .... struggled even to complete warm down
Well done G and Carter for good sessions.
Ricky please take care and listen to your body, sounds like you are doing that. May need some rest.
Carl- a May marathon, good. Edinburgh perhaps then?
I have a manic week at work this week (my assistant manager has recently left and I have no replacement as yet so lots of long days running the store myself) so hard to fit in working out. I ran on Tuesday and Wednesday along with cycling at the gym, but the last couple of days I've had a really sore right achilles tendon since the half marathon, so I haven't run since Wednesday as it feels a lot worse when I do.
Tonight I did go to the gym but did 40 minutes spinning and some weights, still a really good workout but I need to leave the running until my leg doesn't hurt when I do it!