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Ricky - I wouldn't do the 5 @ MP if I were you. If you must, maybe do 3 miles @ MP. Or better still: 1 slow, 1 @ MP, 1 slow.
Carter - Yes, implemented the shortened 180spm cadence end of January after the chi running class. Touch wood I haven't had it come back yet. I am in week 13 of my marathon training so have completed a quite a few long runs and the ITB has been kept as bay so far. I also perform strength exercises on the glutes etc.. as part of my training regime and ice the knees regularly and have a good physio for massages!......But the main thing has been the 180 cadence shorter strides.
The advise I had on the class was to go to a zero heel drop running shoe. I did use 8mm at the time and went to a 4mm (Kinvara) thought the 0mm drop would be a step too far. I found that the kinvara did bring me on to the mid/front foot a bit better. Must say I have enjoyed them ...Everyone is different though.
Dobster, am currently in berinsfield tho from shabbington near thame originally. You? Whats your back up plan agter missing london reg?
Ballot for London I'm told was closed by about 11.30 not sure when it opened, thought it was at 8 but someone else said it was midnight? Either way its getting faster each year. Give it another couple of yrs and the website will crash as everyone tries at the same time like concert tickets! Did mine when I got to work this morn at half eight.
Carter - I just knew I was going to be busy today and would not have a chance of doing it during the day. And as with all things populo these days figured that it would go even earlier this year. So it was a case of wait up and see. If it had not opened close to midnight I was going to get up early to do it.
So looks like we have had a few ballot entries then. Odds are about 1 in 42 or thereabouts so some people say.
Can probably forget about it now and think about which marathon I am really going to do next spring.
Andrew - No idea what my plan is now, I didn't really look past London again, I fancy a smaller marathon though, something more low key. I live in Faringdon but work in Abingdon, it's a small world!!
Carl - Didn't reliase how hard it was to get into London! I feel lucky to have had one chance at it!
Had no idea that I was going to start a massive debate. Really fascinated by this. I will have to see can I experiment as you say and I will report back.
I honestly have no idea which bit of my foot / heel hits teh ground first. I ight fall over thinking about it !!!
My fast laps (i.e miles not 400m intervals) during training and also during my recent marathon show a cadence of 88 - 91 steps according to my garmin which I believe equates to what you are all quoting as 180. So would suggest I am in a goodish place. To go faster for a 10k I reckon I need to increase the number of steps per min. So its simple really.
Now from various posts it would appear that there could be other benefits from getting this right as well. That must be good as well.
I will monitor my cadence whilst training for this 10k and report back.
Ricky - your plan says take it easy this week. Your plan is not far wrong. Of course it will feel like not much but you are going to race, not run or jog, 26.2 miles on Monday. So I would listen to the wise Spoons and adopt the old adage of less is more. Resist that temptation. We are banking on you delivering a massive PB.
Thanks Nell.
So that leads on to the heel strike or mid/fore foot strike. A lot of articles you read tell you that a heel strike could lead to more injuries than a mid/fore foot strike. Do people have experience of changing from a heel strike and did it help reduce injuries ? It has been something I have been thinking about recently and if I'm going to make the change then coming back after injury would be the time to do it I guess ?
Carter, I don't personally have experience of changing (to be honest the idea of doing that after being a heel strike runner for all my life, kinda scares me!) but I have a good friend who has done it and she says it's sorted out her quad issues that were constantly getting niggles with a heel strike. She has spent time on the treadmill to get it right before hitting the roads
Loads of good marathons out there. Personally I don't like London. Too much hassle and too many people.
Dobster - Abingdon is a great marathon - one of my favourites - get in early as it always sells out ages in advance.
No probs Carter, Yes the reason I moved to that style of running is because of the ITB problems. They were driving me crazy. I also think I was neglecting stregthening exercises on my lower body. I am a firm believer in if it isn't broke don't fix it though and I know there are a lot of heel strikers out there that run fine with no issues. They do say if you are striking with your heel you have the force of 3-4 times your body weight going through your legs. Maybe some knees can take that (mine can't!). When I run now my feet are underneath me as opposed to striking out in front, so the impact is no longer there. It works for me
The Art of Running Faster by Julian Goater is a good book I used along with the chi running. The title is a bit misleading, it is not just about running faster but on technique etc..
Hi Carl, If you are running with a cadence of 180spm if you increase the spm it may be counterproductive. It is advised to lengthen your stride.
Cheers Nell, I might give that book a try at some stage.
Physio session for me tonight. The tendon is still swollen but a lot better than it was 2 weeks ago. More massaging, ultra sound and some quite extreme stretches. He gave me a couple, if what he called plyometric, exercises which are basically hopping and jumping ! He said I could start running slowly on grass to start building back up the strength and get the legs used to the feeling of running again. If I get any pain I should stop straight away but he said with all things being equal I should be over the worst of it now and if my knee reacts well to the treatment I should be able to build up my mileage over the next few weeks. With that in mind I was at the gym tonight and I ran on the treadmill for 5 mins at 7kmh pace. All of those 5 minutes were with a mid foot stride too and it felt ok so I think that may be the way forward, we shall see. My plan now is to add an extra minute each time I go on the treadmill and in a couple of weeks time I should be up to about 11/12 mins. I have another physio session then so after that I think I will attempt a 'real' run. That's the plan anyway
Sounds promising Carter
Carter - sounds like you are finally on the road to recovery. Must say you have handled it remarkably well - I would have been climbing the walls!
What should I do? - was thinking just 3 miles easy.
Spoons - took your advice tonight did an easy 4 miler tonight with just the one mile @ MP:
9.18, 8.26; 9.06; 9.04
Avg heart rate was the lowest I've ever seen it on any run of this 18 wk plan @ 139 BPM.
Rest tomorrow which suits me as the 1st of the month is usually a 13 hour day in work.
Only one run now left which is scheduled in for Thursday evening
Would there any benefit to doing a couple of additional miles on Friday evening or Saturday morning? Kinda feel I need to keep the legs turning over & loosened up.
Ricky - mrs carter would tell you that I haven't handled the last few days very well !
For what its worth i always favour 2 rest days before a race. I personally don't feel the need to keep my legs turning over, I can always warm up for a few minutes before the race itself. What have you done for your previous races ?
Good news Carter!
Carter - sounds like you might have turned the corner but please resist the temptation to do too much too fast. Slower to go faster and all that.
Ricky - 8:26 for your marathon pace mile. Methinks there is a really good time in you this weekend. Will not put you under any more pressure than you have already put yourself under.
Am typing this whilst in a taxi on the way home. Have had a crazy last week and everything will be getting back to normal fron tomorrow. Felt really good after my run on Sunday evening so planning a nice speed session to celebrate.
Carter, plyometric exercises are great. I did a study on the use of them when at uni and the results in terms of improving strength esp explosive are awesome but they will also strengthen your core significantly
starting to think about 3 marathons now next year to work on my time. Brighton in April, Milton K in May and Abingdon in Oct
Ricky - perfect - it sounds like you are peakin at exactly the right time. Thursday I would do the 3 miles easy. Friday nothing. Saturday - 2 different suggestions - I don't know what works best for you - option 1 is nothing - this ensures you are perfectly restless but - option 2 is 2 miles easy - some people feel sluggish and tired after doing nothing so 2 miles is just enough to wake the legs up.
Andrew - I would recommend either Brighton or Milton K but not both. Then do Abingdon in Oct.
was thinking of racing brighton to try and get my sub 4hr and then MK is a month later so plod it and enjoy it a little more. do you think they would be too close then? i think they are a month apart
If you're planning on plodding MK that would be fine
Good luck with the recovery work Carter, I first used plyometric exercises to get over an ankle injury from playing football. I found them to be very effective. I now use them in my training to keep the ankles strong. Although with the marathon training I find it hard to fit them in at the moment and to be honest now I am in week 13 of 16 of my marathon training I am easing off some of the strengthening exercises just to make sure I am not overdoing things (the old battered football knees are starting to complain
).......
If I am walking and remember I sometimes practice with posture and mid/front foot landing. As long as I haven't got my high heels on...lol!
Cheers Nell.
I've just been to a briefing for the Sheffieldf HM which I am matshalling at. I'm at a part of the route near the city where the runners pass on the way in and out so should be quite a 'busy' position as there are about 6500 runners.
Hope everyone is enjoying the lovely weather today
Ricky - not long now. You seem to be in a great place. Natural to feel you want to do more but keep it eal easy now every time you run.
Got out for a 6 mile run last night. Miles 3 and 4 were fastish miles at 7:12 pace. Mile 5 started fastish but then I decided to rake in a hill through one of the parks and this slowed to 8:10.
Getting down to the 7:00min/mile seems to be eluding me at the moment.
Intereting looking at my cadence results :
Mile 1 8:41 steps/foot 85
Mile 2 8:14 steps/foot 87
Mile 3 7:12 steps/foot 91
Mile 4 7:12 steps/foor 92
Mile 5 8:10 steps/foor 88
Mile 6 9:10 steps/foot 86
Not much difference between my fast miles and my slower miles.
Carl - that seems fairly consistent to me. Is your cadence expected to be different if you run at different speeds ? Does your stride naturally shorten or lengthen if you speed up ?
Ricky - have you settled on a target time/pace for Sunday ?
Hi all,
Have not been checking in much of late as have been taking it pretty easy since VLM. I managed to get up early and enter the ballot so will wait and see.
Best of luck Ricky for Sunday. It sounds like you are set up very well for it. Hope the weather holds up for you. The wessshht of Ireland can be a bit wet and windy!
That night with Whiteside sounds like great craic. He was a great player in his day. I have a feeling he retrained as either a physio or podiatrist, something sports injury related. I recall hearing that he suffered quite a bit with arthritis and joint problems at a relatively young age after retiring. did he mention anything to do with that in his speech at all?
Have decided will have a crack at Dublin on 28/10/2013. A question for you all re training. As a result of work and holiday committments, June and July will be quite hectic for me. I will keep ticking over running 2/3 days a wekk and a game of squash once a week but was planning on not starting a formal training plan until 1st of August. Does that sound reasonable? Given I have just done a 16 week programme for VLM want a bit of a break from the formality of it and I am assuming the london prep will still stand to me.
Thanks,
Bruno
Hi Bruno - good to see you have been taking it easy. Your plan sounds good to me. You've already got a good base from your VLM training so I would have thought if one of your weekly runs is about 10-14 miles you should maintain a lot of that. You should then be ready to start a 13ish week plan for Dublin. I'm sure Spoons will be along to offer his advice too. How much are you looking to knock off your PB ?
Bruno - it will give you a 12 week programme which isn't ideal but would be OK as long as you get in 3 runs a week beforehand. I would suggest these would be:
1. intervals - alternate weeks: 12x400 / 8x800 / 4x1600 with w/u c/d (6-7 miles in total)
2. tempo run - around 5 miles @ 10m-HMP with w/u c/d (8 miles in total)
3. LSR - around 13-16 miles @ MP+90 seconds
That will give you an OK base to work from