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Cracking stuff Badbark, great report.
Lorenzo, do you need us to get a posse together to go and sort the rascal out?
Alternatively, how about going down the Loz route, such as Lozza, Lozmundo, The Lozmeister, Some like it Loz, or the Chesney Hawkes classic, I am the Loz and only!
Track last night. It had iced over so we did various intervals around the football pitch. I ran there and back and clocked 11 miles.
Tonight was a 5 miler at 6.53 pace. The highlight was a mate recognising me in the distance and he tried to prank me. He moved to the side and went to pretend to trip me up, instead he kicked some poor bloke in the leg! The man was mighty miffed!
I kept running and shouted, "Oi Rob! Stop beating people up!" Tremendous!
Rest day tomorrow as I already have 3 runs and 26 miles covered this week.
GD
Happy Birthday OO54
Is that two daughters you have running now? You're all so fast!
MsE - its definitely improving now and I'm starting to do shorter but more regular runs on the road.
Can't believe someone has stolen Lorenzo's identity....
Poacher - I meant to ask: did your accident happen around here? Its a long process getting insurance sorted. We've not had much snow in the hills yet although the weekend of the trail marathon was white. I've got another hill race in a few weeks so no doubt it will come down that weekend!
Hi all, just checking in as tried to stay offline over Christmas to focus on spending time with my daughter. Had a few mediocre weeks training due to the festivities, only hitting around 25 mpw.
I did accompany my 63 year old mother in law to Christmas Eve parkrun which was a blast. It was her first and she finished in a very respectable 34 minutes. She lit up when I explained this was better than my 21:25 on an age grading basis.
Need to lose a few pounds post Christmas which should be easier without daytime chocolate / cheese / beer / wine etc.
Trying to take things steady and not overreach given Berlin is so far away, just keep building the base and enjoy any runs and races in the meantime. Easy pace is comfortably getting better, with 8:30s feeling good. Need to work on speed at the top end. 4 x 1 mile with 1 min recovery (plus work backpack) at around 7:00s was okay tonight.
Sedan, isn't it county XC this weekend?
A belated happy birthday, OO.
Nice sessions going on as the training kicks up a gear.
9 miles steady for me last night.
Minni no it was in Derbyshire. Bloke shot out of side road without looking. Smash! Absolutely nothing I could have done to prevent it, apart from not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
A belated happy birthday to OO!
Well done to MsE on a speedy sounding "steady" 10.
Glad to hear the red tape is slowly being cut through by Poacher, and that a bit of shopping therapy is on the cards!
GD - runners and their comedy antics!
SEdan - welcome back; always a bit of a struggle when so many temptations are put in our way during the festive season!
Jools - nice 9.
P&D said 10, so 10 it was. Chilly out there, and struggled to get the same pace this morning that I managed comfortably on yesterday's lunchtime recovery run. Strange how much difference the time of day makes. I struggle with anything faster than 8mm before about 9am, regardless of effort levels.
Poacher - that is excellent news on the insurance payout. Did the driver's company admit liability and accept full responsibility? You are a brave man to venture back out on the bike.
To respond to your Q on height affecting stride/cadence, OO, I reckon physics dictates that the longer the levers, the more difficult it is to get a full stride in in the same amount of time a short person such as myself would manage it. 190 for race pace is therefore pretty good! I think that is another branch of what PMJ said but in a slightly different way.
Cracking 5 miler, GDawg.
That is really good news that you are back out there now, Minni. I still have fond memories of our ultra weekend
.
SEdan - easy 8:30s sounds spot on in my book. Well done on getting this far in such a short space of time.
Well done on fitting in the 9 steady, Jools.
Abbers - I expect the easy explanation for feeling slower in the mornings (or taking longer to warm up) is that the body isn't warmed up. So your heart is working at a greater effort for the same pace. One thing I do find helpful when feeling creaky is to foam roll beforehand. I have tight fascia and this helps release them, especially around my hips and lower legs. It was very cold this morning so well done on getting in the 10. I always think effort is more important than pace anyway. That way you can factor in the terrain and gradient without being a slave to the number on your watch. I only ever look at the data afterwards now and try to judge my runs by feel.
Managed a very easy 10K @9:19 min/mi pace on the trails. Tomorrow is an inset day at school for the MsEttes so I thought I would move today's scheduled rest to tomorrow.
OK, open forum time, folks (ignores fact is that anyway
): I have been thinking back to the days of being a beginner at marathons and trying to remember what I most struggled with and might advise my novice self. What do you recall were your biggest challenges and what would you tell your beginner self, knowing what you now know?
One of the big things with stride length, cadence etc is foot strike, so if you hit the ground with your heel and your leg outstretched, you are effectively pushing yourself backwards when your foot hits the ground. If, on the other hand (foot!) you strike with the middle or front of your foot when your leg is under your body, you get to push backwards (and so thrust yourself forwards) quicker.
Running is essentially a series of falls, or repeatedly throwing yourself at the ground. If you throw yourself at the ground and miss, that is the art of flying (for all the Douglas Adams fans out there).
0054 you just make it look easy , most will be well past it by 50 and I will need probably a new leg before then ..Happy Birthday and long may you stay ahead of the younguns
Sedan you will soon burn the blubber off now
Abbers early runs need practice but it soon falls into place.
Jools nice steady 9
PMJ I'm, definitely a heel striker and often when tired I can hear by heels scrubbing if I touch down too early which causes drag and slows me down more . I checked my cadence at 8mm and it was 200 and at 6:50 it was 202 today so basically I've only one gear
I also short of leg and have a glass knee so I don't think I can do much to reduce it but more miles at a faster pace should improve economy a bit at the top end.
Frosty out today 2c and slightly slippery paths ,great for a hard run and getting quite a bit of slip early on as it was thawing
1 hr steady (7:30's) then 8m at 6:50 then a 6:44 and a 6:32 followed by a 6:59 uphill to finish.
19m at 7:05 min/mile average.
aarrgh !!! *!!*@??!!*** just lost a long post re MsE's question re novice marathon runners !!!
for now, Happy Birthday (belatedly) to OO54
to answer MsE's question accurately, is the notional "beginner marathon runner" a novice runner per se, or a seasoned runner who is moving up to the marathon?
differing advice to each, I would say - the main advice to the former being "get 2 or 3 years running under your belt before attempting"
Happy New Year to you all! Enjoyed reading all the 2016 stats.
MsE - good pace for your 16 miler. Some good targets for 2017 too! My biggest challenge for several years was not getting injured. Took a while for the penny to drop that it's possible to overdo it! Just struggling getting the right balance and peaking at the right time now.
PMJ - can't believe you stopped 0.45 miles short of 2250! Good double parkrun.
GD - sorry to hear about your fellow club member - so tragic. I expect you've shed those extra pounds by now.
Lorenzo - sounds like a tough way to end the year - well done. And what you need to do to go sub 3 is anything faster than 6:51.9 m/m! Hope you can reclaim your forum name.
Leslie - 286 miles in December is very impressive. Nice MLR. Stonking 19 miler!
Poacher - Well done on #7 for 2016. At this rate, less than 5 years to go! As for me, Raceways on a nice cool, calm day would do it, then?!
SBD - excellent 20 miler in the bag. And nice tempo run.
Birch - great target. That would be an impressive achievement.
GM - nice way to end the year.
KR - well done fitting in the running over Christmas.
Jools - good to hear you are well and great mileage there!
Speedy - well done on a double parkrun in those conditions.
VTr - hi. Amazing that you managed to hit 2600 after all those hindrances!
OO - good time for the Morpeth 11k. Bodes well!
Badbark - welcome back and excellent back to back marathons - mind-blowing!
Minni - hi - running to Switzerland and back is impressive
SEdan - good parkrunning by your mother-in-law! Happy base-building.
No running for me yet this year. Trying to shake off a lingering cold and bad cough plus a touch of conjunctivitus, so not wanting to go out running in the freezing cold and trying to get a bit more sleep. I guess a week or so of rest might do me some good anyway.
Irrespective of experience, the biggest piece of advice is to decide what goals you have and what risks you are willing to take to achieve those goals. You can get a range of outcomes such as "finish a marathon with minimal risks" to "go sub 3 and throw everything at that single goal and 3:00:00 is not acceptable". Once you have this, and maybe write it down or post it onto a forum, then you can start a plan.
Abbers - I'm exactly the same, rubbish at morning runs. Yet, when I've been up for a couple of hours and then run, typically on race days, I'm usually fine.
My running pal hates it when we run long and he's feeling tired early on as he knows that's him set for the full distance yet I will perk up and want to go faster once I've got 5 or 6 miles done.
Rest well, Gul. Hope you're feeling better soon.
MsE - I would tell myself (as I do newbies today) to keep it varied in terms of speed, terrain and distance. That way it's not so boring and the rate of progression is quicker. An old sage once said to me, "G-Dawg, you're just teaching yourself to run slow". He was right. Despite 3 runs per week at the time, I was always doing the same runs and trying to beat the times from the week before. Once I mixed things up, things changed, I improved and it was more interesting.
GD
GD - I'm quite happy running early (well, not Gul early!), just can't run fast. I suspect MsE's explanation points to physical reasons why. Quite enjoy being out & about as the sun comes up over the Forest with very few others about.
Stonking run from Leslie.
Gul - give yourself some rest and come back stronger. Your body will thank you for it!
As far as advice goes, I've only ever run one, so can't really comment! Various people know I run so have asked how they should train for a mara; sticking to a realistic and achievable plan has to factor in somewhere. They're designed to get you fit enough to run a mara, so follow the schedule.
This is interesting in the context of our discussion about cadence and pace. http://www.runningshoesguru.com/2014/04/run-form-analysis-elite-female-marathon-runners/# The commentator says that cadence is less relevant and fast running depends on three elements:
1 Range of motion (hip extension)
2 Stable foundation (no energy loss or collapse on landing)
3 Resilience (stored natural energy)
I think I understand this in terms of running economy (certainly 2 and 3).
I also note that many of these elite females are around a whole foot smaller than OO!
PMJ - you can really notice how Shalane Flanagan falls forwards when she takes a stride. As you say, we are really controlling falling when we run! It is also noticeable how their heel simply glances the ground but the weight of the runner only bears down when the heel is beneath the body.
The comparison between Shalane and Kara covers exactly the point we made about gliding and bounding. That is, if you can bear to watch the video clip which is quite long.... (geek).
Blimey Leslie that session is almost scary, what an effort. No sure how much 19 miles would hurt at the moment but I'm hoping for 18 at this Sunday's LSR.
The key marathon learning for me MsE was all about what happens after 20 miles. The saying that the it's a 20 mile warm up for a 10k race is about right. I only started to get close to 3 hours one my training prepared me for the pain and suffering, and endurance needed for those last few miles.
Conclusion: running faster requires work on hip extension to increase the RoM with strength and stability work to ensure a stable and resilient foundation with each stride. Back to the yoga and strength work then!
Awesome session with your glass knee and stubby legs, Leslie
!
Gul - get well soon.
MSE best advice to newbies is keep at it , and don't run a mara as your first race ! According to a RW article only 5% of newbies actually make the start line.
Some tips on the home page :
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/training/8-steps-to-running-your-strongest-marathon/15456.html
I watched that long video
and I noted low weight was very important too as all those girls weigh nowt or even less ! 5 ft strides from 5ft ladies 
For newbies advice is you WILL fail at the start (often) , you will have cnba days ,just don't give up it's very tough at the start and better if you have a buddy to run with to help with motivation but it does get easier but you need to hang in there and tough it out.
and a mara of 20m a week won't be pleasant !
0054 you are right about it's what happens after 20m and that's where the fast finish long run will be worth its weight in gold ,either that or I just like pain
My glass knee is talking rather loudly this afternoon and it's mainly complainin'
otherwise ok 
No flying or gliding here I'm more biffer style like Birch ,only about 9000m on my clock ( Garmin ) but well worn already !
Did anybody see Mo farah's training on here it disappeared after a day
I noted his long run was 23m to 28m at NO slower than 1 minute of target mara pace !
PMJ - I've decided to do the Southern XC at the end of the month instead. 9 miles in the cold and mud on Parliament Hill should surely be a doddle off limited training??!!
Ah me too MsE! We were awesome as a team!
Poacher - same thing happened here, more or less. Nothing I could have done. Its left me feeling more vulnerable. My thought process in a split second was: 'that sounds like a car, in my left ear. I should be hearing it in my right ear'. Turns to look behind as see the front of the car start to swerve as it sees me. Its black,I note. Bang. 'Shit I've been hit'. Get thrown over to the opposite side of the road in slow motion. Very Calm. 'This is it, I am about to die'. Smash, hit the road. Then realise I am not dead, get up and run in the opposite direction, away from all the cars that are now stopped. Then I realise I am injured and have to stupidly go back!! So many things saved me - my helmet, which is completely smashed and still in my garage; the fact there was no car coming in the opposite direction; although the car that hit me was accelerating it was not going fast. I always remember the driver saying to me that I was lucky it wasn't his workmate who was driving as he always comes out of that junction much faster and I would have been killed.
Funny what sticks in one's mind!
Liking cadence chat. I've never had a long stride. Really need to do core and strength work....
MsE - Haha, yes you should have seen it!
Classic typo.
That was a very decent 10 from you. I'm in the mid to forefoot camp but I have a tendancy to supinate . Advice would be to get strong as strength is required to run a good marathon. I have yet to do that and have always ended up either injured or not fit enough.When you think about it.... when running a marathon we're not actually running fast and by that I mean we all have a pace that we can hold with adequate training and conditioning. It should feel slow in fact for the first 16 miles or so and when it gets tough around 18-20 strength comes into play, not speed.
VRr - How is the weather there now? I'm struggling big time at the mo as it is very cold for us here at around 7c. In answer to your question re my health - Yes and no. I won't bore you with details but I'm doing ok thanks.I'm impressed you managed so many miles. Sounds like you are hectically busy.
Gul - I hope you can shake the lurgy soon.
Leslie - Cripes! Top notch stuff there sir! You could probably knock a very good marathon in your current condition.
Abbers - Indeed it will be a tough run but when I say 6:4x, 6:49 will do.
I like running in the morning and seem to be able to click into gear after a mile or so but it's much harder this time of year.
Jools - Nice to get those sessions in at the beginning of the year.
SEdan - A few good weeks and you'll be in good shape.
Poacher - Excellent news re the insurance claim.
Minni - Welcome back! Sounds like you're enjoying the off road stuff.
OO - Happy belated! Did you partake in a nice glass or red or are you doing a dranuary?!
A few more lunch runs for me the past few days. One very hilly 5.2k @ 6:38mm, That was a good one and then a flat promenade 5k today @ 7:03mm. I'm happy enough to be running shorter stuff for most of my runs and will carry on doing that for the foreseeable. Must get down to the track soon. 10 on Sunday will feel like a long run for me.
Crikey - busy on here today. The usual collection of fast stuff - GM doing 6:38mm on a hill route is impressive, but Leslie's 18 at 7:05 pace really is something.
Liking the words of wisdom about cadence - I reckon I manage about 190 when I'm doing intervals but as I'm a heel striker, I'd be a bit anxious about trying to extend the stride too much or I'll end up (as PMJ says) simply putting the brakes on.
I'm less keen on Poacher and Minni's cycling horror stories - at least you're both still in one piece. I know how dangerously some drivers go but I try not to let it put me off going out on the bike - not sure whether that makes me naive or not. TBH, one of the biggest dangers when cycling in London seems to be pedestrians stepping out in front of you while they've got headphones in, or are texting away.
SEdan / PMJ - I'll be at the Surrey County Champs in Croydon on Saturday, although in parental mode rather than runner mode as younger Lorenzito is running. He's also going to be at Parliament Hill so depending on the time of the races, I might see you there SEdan.
GM - can't believe you're grumbling about it being 7 degrees! I was staying up in Beverley (near Hull) and it was definitely below zero when I went out this morning and I'm sticking with my principle of running in shorts rather than leggings. It did feel cold, but not too cold, but the ice on the road made it a tricky run.
Like Gul I'm struggling with a bit of a cold at the moment, although strangely it seems to be fine in the morning - it's just towards the end of the day that I start feeling all bunged up.
I ended up taking Wednesday as a rest day, but sneaked easy 6 miles in this morning.
I think cyclists get the worst of both worlds. Cars are fast but built of steel and should stick to the roads. Runners are slower and made of softer stuff but should stay clear of roads in general. Cyclists are soft and need to be on the roads: bad mix.
Last few weeks have reminded me of the dangers of night running. I have a physio appointment in the next town so take a few unlit country roads which are regular running routes for me in the daytime, but driving down them at night I notice that if I have full beam on I can see pretty much everything, but on main lights only I am reliant on the guy ahead to see something. Just looked at the Highway Code (I have 3 learner drivers at home at the moment) and if I am doing 40 mph, my stopping distance is 36 metres and I am sure my lights don't go that far ahead.
Minni sorry to hear you were knocked of your bike too,certainly doesn't make me feel like venturing onto the road on one.especially at this time of year when it dark.I think Id stick to the cycle tracks local to me.
Nearly got flattening on a pedestrian crossing last week at work myself ,driver didn't see me until I pointed it out the next day ,I had nearly stepped out too till I realized they were not slowing.
8 slow creaky ones this morn the first couple were very tough
GM - I'm contemplating cutting back on the mileage and focussing more on quality for a while (once I get back out there!) Good pace for that hilly 5k!
Lorenzo - the cold symptoms came before Christmas, just seems to be a nasty cough now, so I don't think running in the early morning would do me any good. Hope yours shifts soon.
PMJ - I would like to try run-commuting again but head out of town before picking up the bus. However I am very reluctant to use any routes which include roads where you can't run on a path/verge.
Leslie - well done toughing out those creaky ones with your knee!
Conjunctivitis gone but the cough is still with me. I suspect Mrs GD has tonsillitis. At least I'm managing to do a bit of walking, including a 3 mile speed-walk in my lunch-break.
MsE - I was going to give you some perfect words of wisdom for novice marathon runners. But then GerardM saved me the trouble.
Minni - It's funny (in a totally non-amusing way) what you say about the calm and slow-motion effects of your accident. I had a pretty serious accident about a hundred years ago (two broken legs, two weeks in hospital) and had plenty of time to calmly ponder the ramifications of what was happening as I was thrown through the air in peaceful slow motion. Some years ago I spoke to a woman who, as a child, had watched her young brother being run over and killed. She described this same 'slow-motion' effect as she watched the scene from the other side of the road.
I would ask for theories as to what might explain this 'slow-motion' experience. But I won't, for fear it might open up a cadence-style outpouring of impenetrable jibber-jabber.