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Sub 3h15

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    Today in my Park Run, I ran 18:47 on a hot summer's day. A fairly decent effort when the temperature forecast is 35C. A minute slower than a 17:40 Park Run I ran back in November when the temperature was a lot cooler.

    On Thursday I ran 2 x 2 mile runs at the gym with 2 x 2km efforts on the rowing machine.
    7 miles for the week including a 18:47 Park Run is a fairly good return. 

    Next week I will do 1 or 2 gym sessions mid week, 2 mile tempo runs and more 2km. This training has worked to get below sub 18 mins in my Park Runs before and I will continue on with my approach.

    In 2 months time when the weather cools down, I will start with 4 mile run and stretch it out towards 8 miles and ran on treadmill will be my training towards a HM in August. I will have to run a few 10 to 15 mile long runs on pavement to help boost my endurance and get ready to run the HM.

    I will volunteer 3 or 4 times in my Park Runs to be the tail walker. 50 to 60 minutes slow walks over 3.11 miles/5km will still count as runs towards my pursuit towards 250 Park Runs. Today's Park Run notched up my 125th Park Run and halfway towards my 250 Park Runs. 
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    BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    nice 15, Gul - and excellent week's total - a well-earned rest day (maybe a topic for your sermon tomorrow) :);)   
     
    good day and week for you too, Lorenzo - both the total, and the combo of sessions . . .  
     
    OO - meant to ask - how is junior progressing with her injury?  
     
    12 miles with my chum this morning - still a few patches of black ice around.  47 for the week, with tomorrow to go - 3 miles, probably in snow, looking at the forecast . . .   
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    G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Great running week Lorenzo and fine speed in the dark. Enjoy Bath, I hear they sell beer there.  ;)

    16 miler done this morning. Met 2 pals at a car park but I wasn't feeling so good. While they were chatting I took myself off to bring up my breakfast. I think the chest thing was just  giving me a morning gag reflex, that's what I hoped. Resting HR was 42, so I knew my body wasn't fighting a bug/virus and I felt OK in myself.

    The route took us back near my house, so I could bail out early if required. As it turned out, I started to feel better and we got the job done on mixed terrain including muddy canal towpaths for a few miles. 

    Averaged 8.05 but it was cold and wet. A good one to get done. Chest feeling OK and getting better.
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    Interesting discussion on cadence, although I don't measure it myself. The closest I get is counting steps when doing reps and aiming to be turning over fast than 180 / minute. Not terribly scientific. certainly in comparison to PMJ's explanation.



    I've been looking at it a bit more in detail and it isn't as easy as it first seems. There is an obvious V squared term that introduces a non-linearity (so if your cadence is twice as fast you do twice the number of steps a second [linear] but the energy to do each of those steps is not half [linear] but a quarter [quadratic]). The subtle thing that comes in is that you spend a lot of time when running actually standing on one leg and not flying through the air. It is far more mechanically efficient to stand on a leg and let your centre of gravity roll forward (walk) on the supported leg than it is to launch your whole body into the air (run).
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    BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    the cadence discussion reminded me of the great Ron Hill's  "Number Stride Fartlek", which he used in his base training - as described in "The Long Hard Road" - my most treasured running autobiography  
     
    Ron Hill number stride fartlek - "I ran 10 double strides hard effort, counting each time my left leg pushed off then jogged 10 double paces, then 15 double strides with same number of paces jogged, then 20, 25, 30, and so on, up to 55 or 60, then back down again to 10. Half mile jog, then repeat the sequence again. The bursts were relatively short, but it meant a lot of hard work in the acceleration phase each time, and I found it very tiring. I have used this session ever since 1960."

    from The Long Hard Road p.73
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    SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Must get the Ron Hill book sometime.

    On the cadence - I struggle to get above 165 although it generally increases during a marathon campaign.

    I'm guilty of the occasional heel strike as well - but has nobody noticed the cover picture on P&D 2nd Edition?

    Snow on the ground and heavy rain about to start but a long run on the schedule ( I seem to have accidentally entered a spring marathon).  Need some motivation ....

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    G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Just slush falling from the sky here and quite cold. Dragged myself out for a 5k recovery run, kept a lid on it and legs feel better now. Still can't shift the chest thing, getting bored with it now.
    43 for the week.
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    BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    I ran back to back marathons this weekend as part of a quad series jointly organised by the ‘East Antrim Marathon series’ and ‘East of Ireland Marathons’. The bling is nice as the medals for the four events all link together. There was a back to back this weekend and another next month in the series.

    I had to get up at 3:30 am yesterday and drive over 3 hours down to Staplestown. I’ve never been as cold in my life, queuing in the rain and bitter cold for over half an hour for registration. The marathon was a struggle both physically and mentally. I was in 7th early on and up to 5th after a few miles. I didn’t see the other runners ahead and just plodded on in the rain. Knowing I had a 3 hour long drive home and a marathon the next day made it even more challenging. I targeted sub 3:15 and finally finished in 3:13:47 and was very surprised to hear I finished 2nd. Three runners ahead of me all dropped out, and receiving a trophy put me in good form for the drive home.

    This morning the weather was even worse in Carrickfergus. However, registration was much better and I had my full waterproofs on this time. There was a yellow weather warning due to the rain and it was heavy through-out. I expected to struggle with stiff and tired legs but all my Madbark sessions have paid dividends, and I actually felt better than yesterday.

    My goal was another sub 3:15 but I expected to slow down over the last 10k. So I ran a bit quicker early on and went through half way in about 1:35. Due to a HM race starting at the same time it was only halfway when I found I was running in the lead with another person. Two other runners ahead stopped at 13.1.

    We ran close together until about 22 miles when I decided to have a go at the win. We had been running about 7:30 pace but I accelerated to under 7 m/m. The other guy dropped back and I eventually won in about 3:10:50. My last 5k was my fastest 5k of the two races, and I had a bit more in the tank.

    I picked up another trophy and the 6:24 back to back, is a new b2b PB by 7 minutes. I’ll not be running anything more than easy runs next week, before heading off to Lapland for a well-deserved skiing holiday next weekend!:)
     

     

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    BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    keep 'em coming, Badbark - the races and the reports !!   great stuff, as we've come to expect, and love :)
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    GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    Birch - I'll have to put that book on the birthday list.

    SBD - Welcome back! 

    Badbark - Congrats and enjoy the glory. 

    Had to take 48hrs off this week with a niggle caused from football coaching! Another ankle injury but it seems to be ok now. Went out for a test run yesterday and did 25 mins and it felt grand, so I pushed the boat out and did a hard run today. 5 miles with a monster hill and steady ascent to halfway. Very pleased to record 6:20 pace average with the last two miles being 6:12 and 5:49. Took me a while to get moving but felt very good today. Awful conditions again, gale force wind and very wet. 


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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Badbark, that's immense. Your body must be made of something sterner than mine!

    Gerard, good run.
    Hip was a bit sore yesterday and I was hideously hungover so I got up and sat through a spin class but it was largely pointless. Decent bike session this morning though then 3 miles at recovery effort tonight. Felt better than Friday but still not there yet. Got a physio session Wednesday for some pretty intensive work on itb which is where I convinced issue is.

    I'd planned to be running my first 20 today, that seems miles off right now.
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    Badbark said:

    We ran close together until about 22 miles when I decided to have a go at the win. We had been running about 7:30 pace but I accelerated to under 7 m/m. The other guy dropped back and I eventually won in about 3:10:50. My last 5k was my fastest 5k of the two races, and I had a bit more in the tank.

     

    I sort of assumed that Ireland is a small place and if someone is not your cousin or uncle then you at least know them. How can there be people who are racing marathons at your sort of pace who you don't know? (I assume the phrase, "other guy", indicates you don't know him. If you said, "Fred always goes out fast and dies so I kicked in" it woudl make sense.)
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    ....and then it snowed - completely blew my plans for 18m with 10@MP (or any variation thereof) out of the park. Ended up doing 18m XC instead, slow going but a good workout all the same. 63m for the week.

    55m this week - recovery, all easy miles. Have a good week all!
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    MrSoftMrSoft ✭✭✭
    If you are following a specific training plan, can you make gains if you tweak it slightly?. I'm following the London marathon advanced plan as this worked well for me on my only marathon, but I'm thinking of tweaking some of the Longer runs to include more marathon pace at the end of the run.

     I have a 20,20 and 22 mile long on consecutive Sunday's, and was thinking of doing 10 miles easy on one of the 20 milers and then 8 Miles at MP and last 2 at HMP or quicker. The 22 miler I plan to do 17 easy with last 5 at MP.  Not sure about the other 20 miler, maybe last 2-3 miles quicker?. 
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    Lorenzo - good club handicap; proves that the disappointing session on Tue was probably down to tired legs. Was the 50 miles a conscious decision in celebration of your friend's birthday?
    sub17parkrun - good parkrun in the heat.
    Birch - I cheated and used my sermon from 7th Jan; although I hadn't typed it up or made any notes which didn't help! Solid week from you. Thanks for the Ron Hill quote. I think I know what he means.
    GD - good 16 miler and pleased to hear your chest is improving.
    PMJ - maybe I need to practise standing on one leg?
    SBD - good to hear from you. Rain on snow. What more motivation do you need?!
    Badbark - congrats on another win and podium finish; there is no stopping you! I kept meaning to ask if you have to travel far for your races. Are most of them quite a bit less than a 3 hour drive away? Have a great time skiing but be careful!
    GM - glad to hear the ankle niggle didn't last long. Sounds like the rest did you some good!
    DT19 - hope the physio does you a whole lot of good.
    12 miles this morning with 2 x 3M efforts. A bit below par averaging 6:41 for the first 3 mile effort and 6:51 for the second. I am blaming my GPS for undermeasuring (I did 9 laps of the park). I noticed that my current pace dipped consistently after running under some trees and taking a 90 degree turn; the pace continued to drop for another couple of hundred metres before picking up again. Well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it ;)


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    BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    Badbark said:

    We ran close together until about 22 miles when I decided to have a go at the win. We had been running about 7:30 pace but I accelerated to under 7 m/m. The other guy dropped back and I eventually won in about 3:10:50. My last 5k was my fastest 5k of the two races, and I had a bit more in the tank.

     

    I sort of assumed that Ireland is a small place and if someone is not your cousin or uncle then you at least know them. How can there be people who are racing marathons at your sort of pace who you don't know? (I assume the phrase, "other guy", indicates you don't know him. If you said, "Fred always goes out fast and dies so I kicked in" it woudl make sense.)
    I surged at 22 miles as I didn't want a sprint finish having run a marathon the previous day. The other guys name was Geoff and hadn't run a marathon the day before.

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    BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    Gul Darr said:

    Badbark - congrats on another win and podium finish; there is no stopping you! I kept meaning to ask if you have to travel far for your races. Are most of them quite a bit less than a 3 hour drive away? Have a great time skiing but be careful!



    Thanks! The majority of the marathons I run are with the East Antrim Marathon Series, which are about a 30 minute drive away.

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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Mr Soft- I have adapted the schedule I follow and do so as the weeks unfold dependant how I am feeling. The risk of course with adding more in is that you place a greater degree of injury risk upon yourself. You may want to compromise something else on those particular weeks, or you may be able to absorb it all without issue.

    Injured area feels good today despite last nights run. Hoping I can get a few more easy miles in this week than last weeks 11 and put myself in a position where I can pick things up properly in 10 days or so.

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    BB - excellent work, well done on the well deserved bling :D

    So my foot is still very sore when I twist it but I thought I would try a slow run yesterday as I was sure it would be OK so long as the road surface was good.  Also unless I get my training back on track I have no chance of making the start line in April.

    I did a route which I knew I could cut short if needed, and I kept the pace dead slow, but ended up running the full 16 miles with no problems.  My right achilles is a little sore which I can manage, likewise my left hip flexor - nothing a bit of stretching and foam rolling won't sort.  The good think is the injured foot didn't trouble me at all - other than putting my compression socks on was comical as I can't flex it far enough and ended up having to have some help!

    So cautiously optimistic I still have time.  Not for anywhere close to a sub 3.15 but at least if I can get the GFA secured (sub 4) I'd be fine with that.  Actually was thinking about the pacing groups - if anyone else listens to the Running Commentary podcast I heard that one of the presenters (Paul Tonkinson) is pacing one of the sub 3.45 groups, and I might try and latch onto that if it's not too crowded.

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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Freemers- Sounds positive. I twisted my ankle badly in Edinburgh a few years ago on a six nations boozefest weekend, however, despite its colour etc it presented no issues with running.

    I like reading Pauls column in the runners world magazine. I recall he went sub 3 for the first time last year (off a 1.25 half) so a decent runner. He was the first stand up comedian I ever saw. He was largely unestablished at the time doing the uni circuits, back in 1994.

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    G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Good news there, FreemersB)
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    awesome reading Badbark and congrats on your b2b marathons!
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    G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Badbark takes amazing to a new level. well done, Squire!

    Fairly decent 8 miler last night with the main theme hill reps. My little Sunday recovery runs seem to be doing the trick as my legs feel much better on a Monday. Bashed out the first 4 miles at 7.00 pace and then hit my hill which is a convenient up and over ridge with similar distance and gradient either side. Did 8 hard efforts with jog downhill recoveries before a mile run home. Average for the whole session was  7.22 showing a week on week improvement despite the extra reps (6 last week).

    Looking forward to when this chest finally clears, very slow improvements each day.
    10 miles steady tonight.
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    x-post yesterday
    orapidrun - sorry to hear the snow scuppered your plans, but a good session nonetheless.
    MrSoft - swings and roundabouts, I guess, but all part of learning how to peak at the right time.
    Badbark - that's very handy.
    DT19 - sounds promising, but resist the temptation to push it too soon.
    Freemers - pleased to hear that and hope you can salvage something.
    GD - upwards and onwards (and downwards too, literally but not figuratively).
    Did 11 miles @ 7:21 this morning, or 2 w/u and 9 @ 7:17 if you prefer. Legs are mashed and feeling a bit drained. Easy day booked for tomorrow!



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    Freemers said:

    Actually was thinking about the pacing groups - if anyone else listens to the Running Commentary podcast I heard that one of the presenters (Paul Tonkinson) is pacing one of the sub 3.45 groups, and I might try and latch onto that if it's not too crowded.

    I'd be cautious about picking a novelty pacer. He does seem to have run a sub-3 marathon but you really have no clue how consistent he is going to be. His 5k splits start out at 20:17 and end up with 22:03. Clearly a talented runner and he has joined a club (London Heathside) and has a few decent runs but for a 3:45 pacer I;d look for a regular 3:15 finisher rather than a one off sub-3.
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    DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I know that he ran London 16 in 3.11 and Yorkshire 16 in 3.03, so that's at least 3 solid marathons. It's difficult because his PO10 profile doesn't seem very complete.
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    9 slow miles today (8:59m/m).

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    Freemers said:

    Actually was thinking about the pacing groups - if anyone else listens to the Running Commentary podcast I heard that one of the presenters (Paul Tonkinson) is pacing one of the sub 3.45 groups, and I might try and latch onto that if it's not too crowded.

    I'd be cautious about picking a novelty pacer. He does seem to have run a sub-3 marathon but you really have no clue how consistent he is going to be. His 5k splits start out at 20:17 and end up with 22:03. Clearly a talented runner and he has joined a club (London Heathside) and has a few decent runs but for a 3:45 pacer I;d look for a regular 3:15 finisher rather than a one off sub-3.


    That's a fair point PMJ.  I'll have to think about it - to be honest I have no idea yet what start he's going off - unless it's green where I will be I suspect I'd have little chance of getting to that group anyway as I think the time across the line from blue and red could be a lot slower than off green at that pace.  Also I am minded that the pace groups get very crowded and I'll probably be better off sticking just ahead of one of them.

    Just a couple of steady runs so far this week - have a tempo session scheduled tomorrow.

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    G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Freemers, when I've used pacers I've started just behind them and then overtook them to stay out of the crowds and then I feel like I'm just ahead of target.

    A decent steady 10 miler last night with a couple of pals. Averaged 7.16 pace. Legs felt tired after the previous 3 days and I still have a chest issue. Did I mention my chest issue? I don't think I mentioned my lingering, chest lurgy issue thing? I have a chest issue! Not making excuses, obvs!  :D   ;)

    Starting to feel like a runner again, despite tired legs, they feel OK and the weekly volume no longer feels onerous.
    Rest day today and track tomorrow. 
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    BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    15.5 this morn, in pouring rain & driving wind.  Lovely :/
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