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HADD training plan
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Wow, it's busy on here! Sounds like everyone is doing some amazing running! Just the thought of 80miles a week makes me tired and congrats to everyone on PBs, improvements and wedding anniversaries
BeDe - hang in there and feel free to complain as much as you like. I can only begin to imagine how frustrated you must be feeling. No other option but to have patience at the moment I think. Commiserations though.
I'm waiting on blood results to see how things are doing iron-wise but I've stepped up my supplements just in case. I know it can take a few weeks to see a difference. Managed 22miles on Saturday but the average pace came out at 11min/mile and my AHR was 154 so definitely significant drift and slowdown (*incoming excuse* it was hot and humid!). I should probably cut back on my miles for a bit. I just don't want to feel I didn't work enough on stamina/endurance if I don't make my target in Glasgow. Haven't run since Sunday because I overslept today - oops - but will see how I feel tomorrow after my extended rest
Keep up the good work everybody!
Nice subLTs everyone (Dr. Dan, the comeback is on!).
Today was scheduled as 9 miles with 5 at lactate threshold (they say this should be either 15K or half marathon pace). I modified and did 9.5 M with 7 at more like 83%. Even though my overall pace was slow based on my recent efforts, this was a great run for me. It was 82 degrees in full sun and 90% humidity and I didn't wilt. I could tell my pace slowed after the first couple miles, but I kept my effort dialed in. Could have kept going several more miles at least. It is something though how the heat impacts speed. See below for case and point.
Txs for all the advice Guys (and Gals). Running is fast (pun intended) becoming the easy part - it's knowing how fast, far and what HR% to do them but am starting to see the wood for the trees
Brian, didn't have you down as a pain in the butt
hope it clears up and good call about time over distance - makes sense for the slower runner like me.
Txs Chick and yes, things are starting to 'happen' methinks. Nice run and at a pace I'm still dreaming about
Nice running Dr.Dan. Yes, might be an idea to dedo your MAX however, I did read that your MAX doesn't change much but your resting HR (if you use it) does. I did a MAX HR a few years ago (180) but if I see higher on a semi regular basis I used to recalculate and currently at 188 but never get close to it since I tried HADDing.
BeDe, I like your idea of building up slowly (always looking for an easy(ish) route.
So, armed with my new information I took bits of it and probably had one of those 'junk' mile runs lol. 6 Miles @10:33/m and 73% HRR. My plan was to try and maintain pace up the inclines until I got to 80% after mile 2. Was actually quite easy to maintain 80% however was still going slowly. I might do similar once a week but put more into sub 70% runs.
Nice numbers VT ... tough work in those conditions and not surpising to see the drift as the body tries to keep cool.
Andi- in the earlier post quoted below, Hadd suggests how to build in sub-LT sessions gradually (Tue & Fri sessions).
Also, another way of thinking about when to start the sub-LTs ... Hadd had "Joe" start when he was running 50 mpw at 70% maxHR ... but Joe went on to run 80+ mpw. So, if my target is say 50-60 mpw, I feel I could start sub-LTing at 30-35 mpw.
MaxHR is genetically set but it drops by about 1 bpm per year ... hence I feel I should modify mine now as it's been about 3 years since I did the test. Resting HR improves with fitness.
Dr.Dan wrote (see)
Andi nice stats for the week. I too have a HR strap scar - my strap is now wrapped in surgical tape
VT great 18 miler on Sunday, and a good effort in the heat for the fast run !
Brian super low HR for the week's totals. Hope you shake the gym ache quickly.
DD nice progress on the long run pace/ HR. Well done on the first subLT
BeDe hope you're ok
Chick nice subLT; you're inching ahead of me...
RR awesome 22 miler in the heat
Work day for me: 1m w/up then 9m subLT. Averaged 8:05mm (4 secs quicker), HR levelled out at 82% (last week I was still drifting), so happy with the run. 17 weeks until Frankfurt - 4 secs improvement per week would be nice
Hi all,
Have spent a long time looking at this thread while i recover from some knee issues which i felt were down to me running all my sessions too fast in hindsight so i'm looking to try something new.
Looking to give the HADD training a try but seem to be struggling to find out the very basics about how to get started (apologies if this has all been covered before a thousand times but ive read a lot of the pages and cant see it)
Before i was injured i ran 4 times a week for 45-60 mins per session and would estimate this covered around 15-20 miles.
What i'm trying to establish is how to gauge my maximum HR when the document suggests only doing the test when you are doing around 50 mpw but before this point how do i establish it? I have my HR from my previous runs thanks to my Garmin.
For someone who's as inexperienced as me what should a week look like? I understand its about time and effort levels father than speed and distance.
Thanks for any advice and then i will go back to lurking for a bit....
Tek, nice subLT. The lack of drift is great. How did you feel throughout? I'm still waiting to get back to feeling very comfortable throughout these runs. Yesterday was the first time in a while that I felt comfy pretty much the whole way. That's when I know things are starting to really click.
Before P&D, I was putting in similar weekly totals, but did it with runs mostly similar to one another (maybe one long run of 13-18 miles, maybe a medium long run of around 10-12, and the rest around 8-9 miles). Now I've got a long run, a midweek run around 14 miles, another of around 11-12, another 9-10 miler, and 2 recovery runs around 5-6 miles. It's taken about a month to get used to the increased number of longer runs. Finally feel like I'm adapting.
Hi & welcome sub60 - if you PM me your e-mail address I can send you a 4 pager I found on the web the other day - it's a brief summary of the long HADD doc.
at the end of it. If you don't you didn't try hard enough 
.
wow, well done you. That's fab mileage 
Regarding establishing your max. HR the guy that wrote the summary says
"Determine your HRmax plus or minus a couple of beats. You MUST know this number to get to work. Don’t guess or use textbook formulas. They’re useless. If you don’t know your HRmax, go to the track and do a good warmup. Run 800m all out. Suck wind for maybe 30 seconds, then run 400m all out. The highest number you see on the HRM during this workout will be close to your HRmax, within a couple of beats"
Be prepared for that test to REALLY hurt and feel like
Once you have established your max. HR I would go keep the intensity of your runs at 70-75% of max. The 4 sessions of 45-60 minutes sound good to me for a start. Perhaps start at 70% and let the HR drift to 75 (but not higher). Drift is normal as the run goes on. Try to keep your effort as even as possible and avoid huge HR spikes.
You will soon see vast improvements. You may have to walk some chunks of your workout to keep the HR at bay ... that's normal and shouldn't put you off. As your pace and stamina improve you may want to extend one run per week into a medium or long run. But take it easy. Nothing is gained by doing too much too soon. This is a long term thing.
The beauty of HADDing is that it keeps you injury free because of the relative low intensity. But that low intensity is the secret weapon of the plan as it develops your aerobic system like no other training plan.
Stick around and let us know how you get on.
Great running there VT and Tek
Rubbish: up to 22 already
Did 7 easy miles today (av. 72%), av. pace 8:35. No drift
Thanks so much for that Chickadee. Have sent you my email for the document. Will give the test a go at the weekend but it does sound like its going to be a bit hellish!!
Txs for the info Dr.Dan
Teknic, it would seem that these HRM wounds are not as uncommon as I thought. I've just ordered a Polar soft strap as I read good things about them and my Garmin Monitor clips right in though surgical tape would have been a cheaper option
17 weeks @ 4 secs/mile faster would be incredible and if you did that with no drifting it would be incredibly incredible
VT, sounds like your making great progress and since I (finally) realised HADDing is not a quick fix I seem to be happier plodding along with decent improvements.
Welcome sub60, I'm a relative newbie to running and HADDing (started in Feb this year). I found it difficult to keep my HRR around 70% as I live in a reasonably hilly area but after weeks (nay Months) of forcing myself to walk up hills I can now run most of them albeit it very slowly. The longer hills still reduce me to a walk. There is no trick or quick fix to this but if you put in the time I'm sure you'll reep the rewards and probably most importantly should remain injury free.
I've had a lot of help from here and still got a long way to go but am enjoying it more and more
Chick, well done on the 7 miler, I can do the 7 miles and the 72% but the 8:35's are a long way off
Welcome sub
... good advice from Chick. Look forward to seeing progress.
Chick ... snap on the 7 miles easy.
Bike commuting plus a 7.25M run at 69% maxHR, 9:35/m, on the canal ... spotted Jedi Master Brian and his padawan sub-LTing in the opposite direction.
Think the key thing for me is the avoidance of injury which is why this appeals. Approaching 40 so my Olympic dreams are behind me but have really enjoyed running for the last 4 months so dont want to pack it in.
Damaged cartlidge in both knees is a bit scary when you are self employed so have taken it as a bit of a wake up call.
Welcome sub60, and nice to see you Dan.
You looked nice and comfy.
80% came out at 7:07 pace today, which is the fastest this campaign
Gym again tomora early, then 70mins easy at lunchtime.
Dr.Dan & Brian, well done on the runs
Do you actually know each other or 'of' each other? And Brian, careful in the Gym
5.02 Mile 'recovery' run tonight (was running late cos Murray took his time). Interesting results - 10:39/mile @68%HRR is nothing special until I saw 3rd June I did 5.05 Miles with 12:12/mile @68%! I don't keep much in the way of notes but both runs said 'Hot'. Methinks there is not really any need to go to 80% yet if I'm improving like that
You can all pat yourselves on the back for keeping me honest & informed
Morning all.
Andi, I knew of DrDan via RW threads. We both work in Leeds, and have met on the towpath a few times. Good to put a face to a name.
Gym this morning for me. The ache in my glutes has just about gone now. Gettjng used to if so thought I would try and prolong it a bit.
Andi sounds like you're making tremendous improvements! Good for you
Sub60 - welcome to the thread! Once you've tried Hadding, you'll never look back!
Chick - thanks, but I started the year with two marathons early on so it hasn't been too much of a jump in mileage for me. Bloods have unfortunately confirmed my ferritin has dropped again but I've picked up on it much sooner than previously. I think I'm going to scale back the really long runs for a bit to allow for some replenishment of iron.
New plan is to stick to my hour in the mornings, leave out the 80% runs for a while and do no more than 15 miles or so at the weekend. This should allow me to keep training but also allow some recovery for my iron levels. Hopefully, once they recover I'll get some speed back. I feel sometimes like I'll never move off this 10mm mark - something comes along to get in the way! Previously I've abandoned training plans but early indications with Hadd suggest that it could really work for me so I'm going to see this one through!
RR, txs and am hoping for more good things next month but am away for 2 weeks
Sounds like catching this Ferritin thing early will help you recover sooner - good luck!
Am sure HADDing will help get you through this and as for moving 'off' 10mm I'd love to get that fast
Brian, sounds like your a bit of a Masochist but guess all runners have a bit of that in them
Took a friend of mine for a walk today, she walks with sticks and the goal was for me to run round Aros Lake 3 times and for her to walk it once (dead on a mile). I finished in 32 minutes (10:38/m @70%HRR) and had time for a fag before she arrived. This route is dead flat (total incline just 143ft) but several different surfaces - tree routes, cobble like bits and crushed stone and I seemed to suffer more than on hillier routes so maybe need to run it more often?
I'm in a bit of a quandary now, LSR this weekend is supposed to be 17 miles however am up at 5am on Sat to get to Glasgow then on to my Parents in the afternoon (250 miles down the M6). A Sunday run will most likely be out as will be visiting my Dad in Hospital (he fell and broke his Pelvis) and then siblings.
Should I do my LSR tomorrow and hope I recover for Saturday or as I built in 3 safety weeks to my training take one of those and miss it out? Oh, and don't shout at me (please) but if I do the LSR I'll finish the month at 140 miles (DOUBLE last Month).
Damn chickadee you were not wrong! Got heart rate to 184 and wasn't sick so im counting that as a successful start.
Roll on 70% runs. My hadding journey begins.....
Well done sub60! The good news is you probably won't need to do that again for a good few years (if at all). I run to my heart rate reserve and used the karvonen method to calculate. It uses your resting HR in the calculation and that's an easy test (you get to lie down for it).
Good luck with your HADDing journey and am sure you'll be reaping it's rewards in just a few months.
Welcome sub60, This works. Last night I did 10 miles at 7:15 min miles (I like to stick to pace and not Heart rate but keep the heart rate in a zone). This started at 84% and went up to 87%. When I started on my HADD journey 10 min miles was close to 75%. This improvement has been in 6 months
A great advert spen
out of interest, what HR were your 7:15 min miles at then? (if of course you could run 10 miles at that pace back then)
I don't think I would of been able to run more than a mile at that pace!
An even better advert then and a great improvement
I start month 6 of HADDING on Monday but won't be recording multiple 7:15's as my best (single) mile is 7:46
Spen, those are impressive gains! Well done and congrats
.
I've been holding my own in the heat wave. 14 last night in the dark and rain; 5 recovery today. I end each run thoroughly soaked. 12 tomorrow and 18 Sunday (with last 10 at MP...should be an interesting test considering it will be hot/humid...will run to HR).
Anyone else sporting a good tan yet? My base is gooood
!
Andi, hope your dad recovers quickly. My mum-in-law broke her hip and had it replaced at 92years of age and has recovered fully. Massochism rocks!
Sub60, well done getting the max test done. If you've seen 184, then I would use 186 as your max.
Vt, you must be drinking gallons!!!!!! On the tanning subject: it's round about this time of year when people stop to ask if I've been away. The running doubled up with the cricket coaching and watching sends me a mucky shade alright.
Good 10miler spen.
Sensible advice chickadee.
Another 8.4 miles yesterday at 68%. Still haven't decided on a schedule for mara training. I have 1 more week before my 15week build-up starts. I am swaying towards making it up as i go along
Great stuff, sub60
so not a chance to do a proper 2nd sub LT run. I ran by feel and hope I stayed in the zone. 11 miles with 6.2 (10k) @ 8mm.
I like the "build your own" approach, Brian.
Best of luck to your dad, Andi. Hope he makes a quick recovery.
spen: massive improvement, wow
I left my HR strap at work yesterday
forgot to say: VT, I have an exercise clothing shape tan
, i. e. vest shape and very brown knees. The rest is rather chalky 
Chick - The more we run the more we know if we are in the zone,.
Men have it easier. Shoes, socks (I cry off compression socks due to tanning line complications
) and a pair of shorts. End the day, just some glowing white feet at the pool
.
My recovery day must have worked because my legs are tingling right now (which is how they usually communicate to me that it's time for a run).