Moraghan Training - Stevie G

1109510961098110011011915

Comments

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Come on son, how can you mistake the salgia for PF! Different ends of the foot. One a mild annoyance as if you have a little stone piercing into your front underside near the toes, that physios I mentioned it to didn't give it a second of concern and one a monumentally painful heel thing that can absolutely ruin you for ages!

    Pleased it's the former image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Simon, 30x200? High volume! I've heard of 30ishx200, but that was a 10k volume and pace related session, but 30 at what would be 4.42ish miling sounds majorly intense.

    Dean - casually done! I think Dachs was right once when he said I could "probably" do faster for reps than I actually train at, conditioned to zone training I guess. I've definitely lost that "just smash it flat out" mentality I had in my early Marlow days. But then that did come with the downside of the later reps being barely quicker than the recoveries

    Still getting nowhere chasing this appointment up. Too many dam different offices, docs surgery, clinic in Amersham, Oxford hospital.

    Bearing in mind the doctor did try and help out by flagging it as "urgent", I'd hate to see how long a delay there would be if he'd flagged it as "whenever is fine".

    As long as the appointment card doesn't come through after the date!!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Keep badgering them!

    PF can cause a pain in the front of the foot too, especially on waking, which is what my metatarsalgia first presented itself as...it now feels like the classic stone under the foot!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Just tickling your ballz. Good news to say the least.

    From comparing the two, the salg didn't even stop me once, but the PF, my word, every footstep was like pure hell.

  • Bus, are you sure it isn't trench foot?

    Well this thread has really caught fire now that the alternative is probably doing the day job again.

    GWS Mrs I. 

    Enjoyed reading the reviews. 

    Dean - with regards to concentrating on running I find it difficult to put all m eggs in one basket. I have a terrible injury record and triathlon affords me the luxury of almost uninterrupted training. Still, my focus is on running at the moment and true to form I picked up an injury.

    Warming down after the Gutbuster I felt a sharp pain. Tried to carry on but had to see the Physio yesterday after cutting three runs short. I have a smallish tear between the calf and achilles. I am allowed to run but only easy for 20 mins easy. Done two short runs with no pain now so I may be able to step it up sooner than she said.

    It's a bit annoying 1 week into P&D twice now I picked up an injury. I am still on holiday actually so I was able to get out on the bike this morning, just over 40 miles in the Chilterns and only one puncture! 

    SG - I can't believe this is still going on, private health care sounds like a good idea to me. I have just finished my probation period at work so I should start getting PMI next week.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Finally got in a decent days training made up of six miles running and twenty on the bike. 

    I've a loose program planned for when I get back to Britain. It's similar to last year but hopefully will yield a better racing result. Then I lacked enough if any elements which involved effort. Needless to say six minute mile pace almost killed me.

    errch!

    🙂

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Definitely better to have the MT SG

    Trenchfoot is about right Andrew image On the plus side, mud is at least a soft surface!

    Bad luck about the tear - hope it recovers quickly.

    "errch!" indeed Ric!

    Right, just off out in a mo - where did I put those flippers??

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    AG, you're telling me son! But unfortunately our work has a distinct 2 tier healthcare system, i'm one notch below the Bupa goldmine, so have to deal with the bootleg version which is frankly pony.

    AG do you think you get these injuries cos you do mad stuff like chucking 17mile offroaders in from no build up, doing marathons off the cuff and playing football! Am sure it'll pass quickly like yours usually do, you're blessed, or they're very very minor! Cripes, you were running a day or so after getting smashed by a car off your bike!

     

    Couple of night's of barely sleeping, probably need to get out of the habit of being online right before, and also trying to do loads of planning of stuff, meaning I go to bed with my brain not switched off. 
    Add in that the 10miler the day after the Tempo is always a mental strain, and i'm a leetle tired.

    Just need to get through tomorrow's 6&4, and have a rare Saturday rest day!

  • The Bus wrote (see)
    Right, just off out in a mo - where did I put those flippers??

    Glad you are swimming, I just went out and the trees are shedding branches like billy ho. If we don't hear from you tonight do we assume you reached an unfortunate end. I just tried finding a suitable log pun but they all seem mathematical.

  • SG - the 30 x 200's are manageable, its 10 with 10 secs recovery, 10 with 20 secs and then 10 with 30 secs. Sounds harder than it actually is really, although it's a good blow out.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Indeed Philip - keeping pace around falling branches seriously hampers your log rhythm....

    Doesn't make it sound much easier Simon image

    VERY easy 5.3M of sliding around just now as it is sandwiched between 10 yesterday and hopefully (if things feel OK) a 15M in the morning before work. Wouldn't normally do two double digit runs so close together, but need to accommodate Sunday's race without losing out in prep for Wokingham. It's not an A race by the way, just one I like doingimage

     

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    10secs recovery? What on earth.

    90seconds feels spot on for a hard 200, and only 8 of those!

    10seconds?!

  • Dean - Nice 400s.. What sort of shape do you think that puts you in? I did a very similar one other week



    SC - Nice 800s and then throwing a 2:20 in very nice!



    30 X 200 is a lot however I was quoted by someone doing 26 X 400 off 60s - equally insane



    SG - I am sure your MP is quicker! Nice run though



    5 X 2km off 2:30 today. Coming un under 6:40. Felt like a good work out and recoveries perhaps too long. Originally 2 mins though but I have a cold
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    90 secs for a 200 rep??...unless you are flat out and only doing 4 reps @ 25's.... 90 secs is too much.  90 secs is rec for mile repsimage

    Scott - not sure what shape, obviously i ran a 32.13 a few weeks ago but i dont think this session is any indicator of that.  it was more for form and to blow some cobwebs away.  after a few weeks they need to be much quicker than 72s or at least feel easier 

     

     

     

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Scott, zone I've used for a fair while is .6.00-6.10, and that's a theoretical zone, as clearly I doubt I'd be knocking out 2.37-2.40 marathons even if I was doing the P&D plan, at least first couple of times!!

    Maybe you're remembering a bunch of sub 6s I did, which were round a lovely loop. On the road, more often they'd come out mid to top tier, so 6.02 I was delighted with!

    ( was encouraged the previous week to do a 6.09 having aimed for 6.20 steady!)

     

    Dean, I guess it's all relative to training style, plan, time in plan, and race aims.

    I've always been zone based, and barely race the sharp stuff, so 200s would mostly be about a sharpening, rather than the intense project you get involved in,

    8 feels a short sharp workout off 90s. I (try and remember back) but guess if there was a 3k race on the agenda that recovery might have dropped to 60 ( can't recall if a 45, definitely with 400s once). 10s would kill me though, unless I 40seconded a rep image

    I suppose the closest to your stuff I've done, was this one with a local club years back. Lumped in 3s on "closest ability", I got 2 of the local dons, so you'd monster 150metres (approx as it as round some ind estate), then rest the 2 legs while they did theirs. 10 reps, 2mins, then 10reps

    I used to love to try and impress people and hadn't got the fear/top end conditioned out of me, so remember obliterating them so hard, that I could barely walk for about 3 days.

    That sort of thing would help nothing now!

    26x400 is pretty high volume. I did a 16x400, but that was 10k paced stuff, but even torwards the end of those they started to drag.

    If it was 26 and all smashed, well that's a body of steel.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    rang through to the MRI place, apparently they've changed their answer to "aint got no record son".

    So will have a fun game with the phone out ringing between 3 sets of incompetants tomorrow, and once and for all find out who is holding this up, to at least getting a date!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    The number of reps is surely irrelevant. I can turn a 15 miler into reps by simply stopping every 400m. Some days I think I do.

    However, I did once do 21 x 3 minutes with a minute recovery. Covered the best part (or worst) of 12 miles doing that. It was in preparation for a marathon I hadn't trained forimage, and subsequently hit the 'wall' (at speed mind) big time at 20 miles.

    Still ran 2:56.

    🙂

  • image



    I remember reading on Lets run what are suitable 10km workouts



    25 X 400m.......with no recovery ...



    Great image



    What I meant about 26 X 400 was that it was quoted as - just inside 10km pace workout.. In theory do able of course but similar to the 12 X 1km (which I did actually) a hard one that needs respect and recovery



    I know it's hard to predict shape / race time from one workout though, today was meant at 10km race pace, then my recoveries were too generous in effect
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Right, tomorrow I'm going to do a 0.3M warm-up then 120x200m, off 0s recovery image

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    I would normally cast a level of scorn upon tempo runs apart from the knowledge that they were once a common component of my training. I say were, on account of them being a thing of the past.

    Why?

    The reason is they are just too damaging for me to recover from. I can run long and easy, and I can do hills. I can even do reps. With all of those there's a component of strength or speed and control. With tempo I find nothing but a slower than race pace damaging effort.

    But they work. If you can recover from them. Really, if you hit them all the time they are quite a bonus.

    Seems an element of youth is required, dammit!

    🙂

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Tempos are definitely the one that took me a while to get used to. Like you mention Ric, running easy, fine, doing speedwork, used to it, from football, hills etc, along the lines of reps. But medium hard continuously for ages? That's hard work.

    However, for me, it's the key part of racing well. After all, in a race you can't stop, so smashing a rep, then stopping/jogging isn't mimicking the race scenario as well as a tempo does.

    I could certainly see older days (pending not having long quit/body quitting me) sack tempos off and just do races as tempos instead!

    I could then use the "it was just a tempo" to everyone who'd just beaten me , like a few local big boys doimage

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    May be now is the time to be doing some of those to get race sharp again SG. You could get a t-shirt made up saying "I'm just doing a tempo" to save any embarrassment about being beaten by old gits like me image (though even at your easy tempo pace you'd still whip my ass to be fair!)

    I also struggle with tempos these days Ric. It was only a few years ago I could leave the office at lunchtime and dive straight into 5 or 6 miles at 10M race pace with no warm up. (good path to injury) Not these days though Takes a mile or two even to consider getting to marathon pace for a few miles!!

    Right, 120x200m off 0s rec done. Average 90 secs per rep image

    Seriously though, 15.3M at 7:52 pace. Slow, but nice to get the long run out of the way before breakfast and despite a pretty hard 6 days, things are just about holding up. Pace was also affected because was a fair bit of ice around, especially on the down-hills, and the first hour was in the dark. Besides, I can work on the speed in the next few weeks if everything behaves.......

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    You have beaten me every single time I've done the Wycombe half in the last 6 years now in fairness image

    Welcome to realism too, smacking tempos off nothing must be horrible. I get a nice 3miler in, have a lovely unleash in whatever woods are close, pish about doing my laces up, wondering why just why, THEN get going.

    And i don't think that run is that slow! My "easy" zone is around 6.53-7.40 probably, so for yours to go 10-20 seconds deeper is probably likely. I suppose it's that most of us tend to do easy runs near the top end, and whilst not necessarily doing any harm, condition yourself into thinking something aint right, or it's slow, if it's the other end of the zone.

    (bet your route was still offroad and hilly even then!)

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Damn.shame Wycombe isn't Power of 10image



    On road today, but a very long climb through Bryant's Bottom...Not really slow, but I've done the same route 40s per mile quicker for similar effort.
  • SG - You can't do the 200's too hard with 10 secs recovery - I usually try and keep every rep at about 36's for the session, obviously the first 10 with the 10 secs recovery are the hardest.

    It's a bit of a 'go-to' session to get the legs turning over. Nothing today apart from the short commute in prep for another windy county xc at Biggleswade.

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭

    Good training guys; impressive how everyone jumps straight back in New Year.

    Started my HM training with 2 13 milers the last 2 Wednesdays. Tried to push the pace a bit without over-exerting in the hope of running around 7's but came out 7'25 average each time to keep it comfortable. Desired HM pace around 6'20 so guess I must get cracking on upping the pace of the training runs? What's the consensus on how much below HM pace a weekly run at the same distance should be when you're fully tuned up for the distance? Also do you guys recommend an extra WU/CD or with such a long run can these just be incorporated in the main run by starting and finishing a bit slower?  

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    I'm aiming for sub.1.20 at Wokingham and would normally expect my long run to come out around 7:15 to 7:30 pace, without feeling like I've had to push hard. I like to try and test with a sub 7 a few weeks before as a confidence booster but only if it doesn't feel too forced.
  • Pete, I rarely run under 7m/m for anything other than sessions. If your target pace is 6:20s, 7-7:20 is too fast over 13 mile long run..maybe ok for 8-10m "strong run"



    My PB pace is 5:50 btw (1:16)



    A tempo run HM based session was advised to me building upto 8m at goal pace..so over several weeks, 5/6/7 etc



    Sessions such as 2 mile reps or perhaps 4 X 3km..I've never trained specifically for a half over more than a couple of weeks, I think others would be better offering typical sessions



    I also really really stress the long slow run, I found a huge difference in doing 16 milers. When I ran my half I had done a handful of 14 milers if that and struggled at 9/10. I did several weeks doing 16/18m and found I felt really strong
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭

    Thanks Bus and Scott, that's reassuring I'm not ambling too much. I've heard the really long slow runs recommended a few times but not sure I can a) find the time or b) face themimage. May well try your tempo build up instead though. 

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    I'd also advocate over-distance LSRs for a half, and also (ideally16/17). This also allows you to incorporate a warm up quite reasonably as part of the run. I do try to do some of the latter miles at a bit faster pace to get used to picking up the pace when tired, but again, nothing that fells like you are pushing too hard to be counter-productive.

    For this Wokingham campaign I'm also trying to make sure I do a second double digit run each week, with at least the second half falling into the category of "strong run" as Scott puts it

     

Sign In or Register to comment.