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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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I find my children are a pain in the arse.
Scott you're too keen. Wait a bit longer eh?
Easy 10miler today and feel pretty fresh. At least until I coached and hour of swimming in a warm pool enclosure.
Nice one Ric, an actual race! I envy you right now! I'll try and build a bit of MP in back in, and maybe after that early April latest appointment, see if a parkrun might be worthwhile. There's one exactly 1/2mile from my door so I wouldn't have to make much effort.
Scotty, need a bit of my patience son. You'll come back no worries!
Although how much of mine is patience/caution at tests and how much I'm secretly loving not to have to train properly I don't know. Probably still 90-10% I think.
SG, you've got to be careful when you look at some of those long runs. He did 18 this weekend average 7:06: first 9 miles uphill from Wycombe to Risborough in 64 minutes and second 9 miles back downhill in 63.5 minutes. To do 2:50 you are 6:29 pace and a suggested way to do 20 is 10@7:30 and then 10@6:30 so 2:20 overall but definitely a step up in pace over the second half.
Perfect example is AG, 22 miles and last 6 at MP. That is the hard session you need and kudos to him!
He has a sub 3 in him, but it won't be a big sub-3.
I never look too closely at marathon stuff in fairness, don't want to be sucked in! Dying a horrible death in a half marathon was enough mental torture!
Surprised the Gaz hasn't done a sub 3. Am sure he's done a 1.20 half which would surely lend to one fairly ok with the right step up in training.
Like everyone has said Scott - patience! Darn sight easier said than done though I guess!
Good work Ric - bit more silverware for the cabinet...
Nice long run AG. It's coming together well - kudos indeed as Philip says! Remind me, what is your target?
Gaz's long run pace always seem to suggest better long race times to me. Maybe he pushes too hard in training as it never seems to work out that way - he's got time on his side though. 7.30 for a 20+ is based on my own experience (and partly Macmillan times). I know in the past that when I can do a comfortable 20+ at that pace, with the 2nd half getting quicker, a sub 3 has followed.
SG - there is no reason at all why you couldn't race currently. Yes, you will need to re-set your target times to reflect the issues you've had, but it seems to me the main thing you need to put aside is this irrational fear that you seem to have that some may think less of you because you've raced a time that in some way could be seen as below your full potential. It's bound to be at the moment, so accept it, crack on and don't give a flying fuck about what anyone else thinks!!
Scott, my rule of thumb on recovery from injuries is quite simple, and that is if it takes say ten days for something to stop hurting from the time it originates, then loading up the first day after is much the same as loading up the day before it stops hurting.
Obviously this was a medical procedure, but the principle is the same. For every day 'in' I'd give it the same number of days 'out'.
So rather laboriously this means if it takes six weeks for an achilles to stop hurting, I'd have to give it another six weeks before leaning on it again.
As for laborious. I imagined before turning up for yesterday's race I might do ok compared to my teammates. I certainly have felt good enough training.
However, in the race itself, they ran away from me in an instant and were out of sight in barely a mile. By the finish they up to four minutes ahead of me.
Afterwards we all had a laugh about my endoscopy procedure and the guys mentioned how our club secretary had mentioned it was the worse thing he'd ever had. Which sort of puts things (duff races) into perspective.
A few year back I nearly gave up after a similar performance and he phoned to say he didn't bother about the result anymore beyond being able to get around in one piece. So I kept running. Any running is better than none.
I don't put SG's lack of racing in this bracket. There's a health issue for a start, and if you are of the 'racing' nature, you're not going to hold back.
I meanwhile had the feeling yesterday I was running a tough run but couldn't face; even I could, that spewing guts out effort. Not sure about the wisdom of doing that at my age anyway; more than one runner was limping about at the finish, including one of my team mates.
🙂
It's getting betting during the day, better when I got to the toilet. Sometimes I can sit like now and I feel pretty normal.
13 days (today) after surgery and since I last did any exercise. Ive had pain and irritation since the piles really developed back properly in August. I never had an issue whilst running that they hurt, just afterward the cramps and bleeding etc.
I'm meant to be back to work Thursday but that's unlikely with the pain, I wouldn't say it's really sore now, my routine is toilet, bath straight away and pain for several hours, yesterday with 2 tramadol it took a good 6/7 hours before I didn't notice anything. I can't go from my comfort routine into work suddenly need a toilet and then be like that and that approach I need with running I guess
I need more patience! And races I've planned I've kinda realised I'm not going to hit anything for a few months now
Thanks. Target is undecided but my ambition is 2:45. After that 22 miler I feel like sub 2:50 should be doable. I have the 18 w 14 @ MP to come so that's probably when I will be more sure about where I am.
Scott - Sounds lovely! Glad you are on the mend..Thats flying from Alex W-C, huge improvement from my level last summer!
Good race Ric Interesting take on the injury front.
Not had a proper look at the Intercounties results, but going on the quality of the Trafford 10K - It's no surprise that folk will out a 10k PB above running for their county.
Didn't run Saturday, but did a mini track session with LBAC - only 400/200/100 and then 4 x (200 hard, 200 jog), with a 2 mile warm down. Quite pleased with the times, but there's still IT pain on the outside of the knee towards the end of the warm down.
the 2 miles to the station from home this morning was OK, but got some more IT pain nearing work on my 4 mile route from Euston. So not out of the woods yet by any means. Fecking annoying.
Lots of strong running from Matt there
Good long run PMJ, into some nice shape there.
Excellent to see you back racing Ric, sub 7 on an XC course still sounds pretty decent.
Good to see some improvement Scott. I wonder if mentally counting the days since you last ran and worrying you’re getting out of shape is helping you deal with it though. You will get out of shape. Then you’ll get back in shape again and pick up where you left off. You’re young.
Great long run AG, plus a decent parkrun to boot. It’s almost like you’re taking this running stuff seriously.
Hope it clears up Simon.
Re Trafford, it’s a shame that the scheduling of the inter counties and high quality road races clashes. I would always run for my county – I spent so much of my teenage years trying and failing to get a county vest, that now I can pretty much just waltz into one, I am not going to turn it down.
Anyone fancy a report from the Inter Counties?
No? Screw you, you’re getting one anyway!
Last year, I made the mistake of taking the Berkshire coach up. This meant gathering at an obscene 6 AM, and then the coach was full of children. It was like being on a school trip again, where I was some kind of ‘slow’ pupil who had flunked year nine 23 consecutive times. I therefore decided against it this time round, and left home at a leisurely 10 AM.
Up to Brum in time to wander around the course and catch some of the other races in parts, as well as to try to remove the 15mm spikes from my shoes from the Southerns, which was only partially successful. I therefore ran in an attractive mix of 15s and 9s.
Last year was 172nd. I was in damn good shape back then, coming off that 71 half, but didn’t have a great performance on the day. Target for this year is top 150.
Couple of miles warm-up, then some strides. People started walking towards the start-line, and as I began to follow, it suddenly occurred to me that I hadn’t put my chip on. “Shit!” I audibly shouted, and then sprinted full pelt back to the tents, where no other senior men were in sight, grabbed my chip and made it back in time to line up. The Berkshire team then sought out pen 43, only to find it occupied by some yellow-clad squatters. Complaining to the officials yielded no reaction, so then we moved along to an empty pen on the far left. Due to some drop-outs, I am up to 3rd in the pen, heady heights for the likes of me. However, even as the countdown was starting, an official evicted the yellows, and shouted at us to move, such that we were only just moving into the pen when the gun went. It’s eventful already, and it hasn’t even started.
Last year I got swamped in the mad rampage for the first corner and had to basically work my way up from the back. I resolved not to let that happen again, and managed just about to cling onto the prevailing pace, and hit the first hill in an OK position. I seem to be decent on the uphills, so I make up a number of spaces heading up it, but it’s all a bit cramped still. Bloke goes down, and we swarm around him. At the top of the hill I can take stock of where I am, and it seems to be about right. Pace feels pretty quick, and the breathing is already heavy, so confident I’m not underselling myself at least.
The course is different to last year. Last year, we only ran the hilly part of the course once, right at the start, and the rest was gentle ups and downs. This time we’re running it three times – although, because you go up it, down it, up it and down it again, you’re essentially doing it six times. It’s pretty steep, but good footing. Once you’re on the descent off the hill is where the mud starts, and goes on all the way down and then round the corner too – but having run the Southerns, this is nothing.
I’m wondering if Dean is running. There are a couple of Staffs vests near me, and people keep shouting “come on Dean”, but it turns out they are separate entities. End of the first lap and it feels like I’m making up positions all the time, and feeling like I couldn’t go much faster, but at the same time that the pace is manageable if you see what I mean. As I start to climb the hill, I can see the three leaders, including Dewi Griffiths, coming down. They’ve got a huge gap. Fortunately, when I come down the hill at the same point, there are still runners coming up, so that I know that time-wise, if not position-wise, I am closer to the front than the back.
Don’t have much recollection of the second lap to be honest, other than that I felt I was still progressing through the field, moving well. Hills hard but manageable, mud a mess but not for too long, all’s well.
Onto the last part lap now, and it’s back up the hill, down it again, and then up it, looking forward to the final descent, final muddy patch and the run in round the football pitches. As I turn and take the steep start to the descent, my hip goes. It feels almost like a small water balloon bursts in my hip, accompanied by sharp pain. I give a yelp. My hip has had some vague soreness over the last week or so, but it’s no different to the dozens of phantom pains we all get every year. But now this descent is hurting. It’s the last km though, so there’s no question of a DNF. I have to get off this sodding hill anyway, it might as well be part of the race. Painfully, I charge downhill. I’m still moving at the same pace, not losing position yet, but I can’t move up a gear. Round the bottom and the football fields, and I’m still passing people despite the pain. Round the final corner, and this is where several people unleash a sprint, meaning I lose five places in one fell swoop. I haven’t a hope of responding.
Cross the line, and feel happy that I think I’ve had a decent run. 43:35, which is 5:55 pace, not ever bad on a XC course, but pleasing on these hills. Last year was 39:59 for a much flatter course, and there is no way that was the full 12K anyway. Pleased to see on the results later on that I was 140th, so well inside that top 150 target, but then I start to see names I recognise, and realise that actually it seemed to be an absolutely bog standard XC performance, and that the standard is a fair way down on last year (see comments re Trafford). This reality disappoints me, cos it really did feel like I was going well.
More worrying is the hip. Haven’t run a step since the race, it still hurts when I walk upstairs or attempt to walk quickly. Natural pessimism tells me this may be terminal for my marathon campaign. A week off won’t matter in the scheme of things, but over two weeks so close to the race will kill it off I fear. It doesn’t feel like something that will go away with 2 days rest. Physio appointment booked for Thursday. Got to keep it in perspective, I’ve been very lucky with injuries, and Scott and SG have a lot more to contend with. Not sure I’d have the appetite for another marathon campaign in the near future though if this one is scuppered.
Great result and report Dachs. On the injury front that sounds like a show stopper to me.
That soreness you mentioned must have been some micro damage which under extreme testing decided to really let go. It's right sod, but if we stopped training at every twinge we'd never do a thing.
Just seen my own result from yesterday and from the PO10 profile of the guys around me, it seems I've become a 21 minute parkrun merchant.
Fact is, in XC there's a lot of runners who absolutely smash themselves from the gun in a way they wouldn't dream of doing in a road race.
🙂
Dachs - good racing at the inters. yep trafford slaughtered the depth but still a county race. i was selected but puled out a while ago as i was going to run trafford...but was sick a fortnight ago and it wiped me out, so ended up missing trafford as well. i had a look at people i have beaten regularly on xc this season and had things been normal i would have been just inside the top 100. (of course it doesnt really work like that but im taking it
) hopefully the hip sorts its self out quickly for the marathon.
Heal quickly Ric and scott. sounds frustrating but im sure it will pass.
i have been rubbish for a few weeks, the nadir being a 6*800m session where i did a 2.42 for the last one. the target was 2.28 so things were falling apart bad. so i have reduced my mileage and hoping some speed and consistency comes back.
Nice report, Dachs. Hopefully it's nothing serious. Nice run at the XC, perhaps the hip held you back a bit without you knowing.
I'm not taking the running too seriously but I am staying pretty close to the plan. Quite enjoying the plan actually.
Welcome back Dean. Although my awareness of time is all over the place due to being outside any usual zone/racing calendar I did wonder where you'd gone, felt like ages. I checked with Stevie See a few weeks back that all was well, and it sort of looks like it is, bar those pesky colds that do us all. Good news.
Dachs - no! That's a bastad, you were going such great guns. But when you say you haven't run a step since, we are only 2 days on mate! Let's not get too concerned just yet, see how it pans out. You are generally made out stern stuff, so let's hope it eases down. I'm no marathon man, but I'd imagine there must be a scare or 2 in most people's campaigns, especially at the higher side of training.
Did chuckle at the coach scenario. Sounds like most of these sort of things across different areas. Stupidly early, take ages, but usually the cheapest method!
ps Bus easy tiger! Are you round Ed's on the Stellas?
5weeks ago I was on the threshold of trying a parkrun, but then a couple of colds in amongst a busy travel week completely brought it back a step or 2. Might as well build for 3 weeks and see this next appointment off now it's so close, but I don't thinks there's much point racing for the sake of it. You have to at least be able to do a couple of good sessions first to get confident you can push that hard.
At this rate the title of this thread will need to be adjusted from 'training' to 'The home for the old and infirm'.
🙂
Dachs - oh no! Great report, but definitely not the end to the race you needed. Fingers crossed it's not as bad as it sounds - you've worked bloody hard on this marathon campaign.
Dean - shame on you! 2:42 for 800m eh
. I guess that is actually pretty slow by your standards though, but sure it won't last.
3.5m MP job today, sub 6. Bit like 7 weeks ago when testing the water. Then increased that to 6milers, so probably look to do that next couple of weeks.
I'd describe it as leg wise comfortable pace, very standard, breathing wise almost fools the mind into thinking it''s harder work. Was enough today, actually set out for 3, but had 1/2mile extra to work so used it.
Will look forward to what the doc says. It's clear it's just the confidence/ability to do top end stuff lacking now. But it's been 8months, no point rushing now!
cheers SG. not sure how long its been since my last post but i havent done anything of note either training wise or races and this place was becoming more like a doctors waiting room
actually i did race a xc and ended up taking team bronze in the birmingham league. one of the top leagues in the country. Loughborough Uni and birmingham uni were gold and silver to give an idea of the quality. At birmingham uni Jonny D isnt the top boy so they are pretty good. Our team is so small we normally only had 8 finishers (6 to score) and only used 12 people all season. luckily what we lack in numbers we have in quality. im probably the 6th slowest 5k/10k in our team. so not too bad.
Bus - its all releative
but when i missed the target rep by 14 secs i turned the air blue. motivation at a low. so reduced my weekly mileage and slowly building pace up again. if i carried on as i was doing i would have burnt out/injured so taking my foot off the pedals should get me back quicker.
Good XC racing and injury perspective Ric. Great race report Dachs - bastard about the hip, hope it's not as bad as first feared. I thought a calf strain had knackered my marathon campaign 6 weeks from race day last year but managing it well meant missing a week of training and then building it back up and no issues whatsoever. Fingers crossed.
Still some tasty looking marathon training going on too!
Here's my report from Sunday's Inverness HM:
I was feeling pretty nervous most of the morning to be honest. A 12:30pm start seems ridiculous - I had at least 5 hours to think about it and with no real travelling to do or anything the morning just seemed to drag!
Eventually the time came to walk down to registration, which was good to get out in the fresh air and try to relax a bit. There was definitely some wind blowing which was most unwelcome... I particularly noticed it on the walk down the long straight heading to the finish. I knew I was going to have a headwind in the last mile or two to contend with. Oh well. Not much can be done!! Picked up my number and got it pinned on but I was still really early for the start of the race and no sign of any clubmates yet. They started to filter in soon enough though and took my mind off the actual race for a while. Come about 11:30am, I felt just had to go outside for a jog to shake things loose! I managed to hold off for a while longer, but then had a pretty slow jog round for about 15 mins or so with a slightly faster push towards the end. Last toilet stop (which involved queuing) and then out again much closer to the start time. Had a few strides and then lined up after the obligatory group running club photos! Then the start came round pretty quickly and we're off. My vague plan was to average around 6:19/mile over the first 4 miles and then push on as able, with a few slower ones on the uphill sections. First couple of miles were a bit quicker but miles 3 & 4 are about the toughest on the entire course and I slowed a bit there - average at 4 miles was 6:20, so ok with that. A couple of clubmates were up ahead of me early on but passed them both at about 4 miles and pushed on for a much quicker 5th mile with a good dose of downhill. I was passing runners all the time. Slightly slower again on mile 6 with an uphill section towards the end but I went past a familiar runner here - Jamie Ross from Deeside - my nemesis who regularly goes past me in the final straight! I went strongly past him and felt like I'd put good distance between us as I pushed on in mile 7 with the help of a good downhill. At one point my watch said my lap pace was 5:20...! Miles 8 and 9 were quite tough with some headwind and a nasty little hill. Still going past runners but found myself trading places with a guy a few times as we ran together for the rest of the race. 10 and 11 were good but the last 2 were really tough as the headwind was a nightmare. I knew 6:15 average pace was sub 82 pace and I was averaging 6:15 at halfway and down to 6:16 at about 10/11 miles. The last 2 miles were going to have to be swift to get the sub 82 but I was pushing hard and slowing down at the same time. The guy I was trading places with was getting away from me and I couldn't hold on to him. As we came round to the stadium at about 13 miles I could hear a runner gaining on me. Before I looked, I knew it would be Jamie Ross. The bastard. He's got a strong finish so I didn't want him ahead of me entering the stadium but he cruised past me. I felt pretty done. Halfway round the stadium I decided to give it one last push. On the home straight I got to his shoulder but he glancedglanced back and kicked again and I couldn't get him. Perhaps had I been on the cusp of sub 82 I would have found a little extra but it was a good run and a good effort. 1:09 off the PB so happy days.
PB of 82:40. Next up Garioch 10k on Sunday 20th March, followed by Elgin 10k on Sunday 27th March. PB is 37:41, so could take something out of that if it goes well.Scott - yes, still training with Johnas' excellent coaching...
Recovery runs only so far this week for me. 27 mins yesterday @ 8:30+ and 45 mins today working from high 8s down to low 8s and then pushing down to sub 7:30 pace for the last half mile or so. Legs still feeling a bit heavy but should be fine over the next couple of days.
Dachs, hope it is something that can be sorted out quick. Old running lore says that injuries that come quickly can go quickly: it is the old ones on the back burner that eventually get you.
Nice one CC82.
What the heck is the insistence on doing stuff like easy running in minutes terms though, especially such random figures like 27mins? You can't tell me there's any science genius to that...
Why not just 3miles recovery?
Well done on the PB CC!
congrats on the pb cc
6*800 for me off 90s. target was 2.30 and was bang on or faster for all. a much needed boost after the same session a fortnight ago when i averaged 2.38's. i felt much more bouncy and controlled so hopefully the past few weeks were just a lull.