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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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I thought UKA rules were you had to have proper clothes on in races?
Define proper clothes? You do have to wear a top of some sort - this caused a right old fuss when the Fell Running Association pointed this out! I guess it' s so unusual in a road race, none of the ROs have ever imposed the rule on the guy mentioned above....
mind you, when you look at what some women wear, especially the elites, then guys should feel free to run in Speedos
For things such as the top on / top off issue I refer you to the sorites paradox. Put simply, it shows that if you have two extreme conditions and a continua between them, you can't tell the point when it flips from one to the other.
To apply this to the top on, top off scenario you set the extremes, so it is clearly allowable to run bare chested in some scenarios and clearly not in others. You then try and determine the point at which allowable becomes disallowed. If you can't define this point, then you have hit the paradox and so the solution is to err on the safe side and always run with a top on.
Same applies to people who have "run" a marathon on 6 hours. Clearly if you run 3 hours non-stop and finish then that is running a marathon. If 6 hours is not running, at what point does the change happen? As you can't define the change point, you have to concede that 6 hours is running a marathon.
As soon as you have a rule maker step in and set arbitrary limits it becomes much easier, so 70 miles an hour is the speed limit and 69.999 is fine and 70.001 is a ticket etc. Marathons should also have cut off times, so Comrades has a 12 hour cut off time, and if you cross the line in 12:00:01 then you have not completed and you don't get a medal.
In Rule 143 (1) it seems to be defined as the opposite of improper clothing:
In all events, athletes must wear clothing which is clean, and designed and worn so as not to be objectionable. The clothing must be made of a material which is non-transparent even if wet.
Phil, what the ruddy budgewadge are you talking about
And Bus, I've been off the local runnign scene for so long i don't know or recognise anyone to be honest! Remember, it's not just this last year, it was a few years of typically doing bigger races, not necessarily the bread and butter local scene stuff.
Got to wear a top in a race, i think it was Ric or someone who pointed out that you might as well run with a vest as you can't take it off in the race.
Anyway, ignoring that, i lost the vest before the track sesh today.
Session 5,
6x800m, 2mins, 2x400, 1min, 2x200,m 30secs
600s had seen 5k pace come out around 1.18s, so wanted to see if we could do that for 800s.
800s 400s 200s
2.37 1.14 35secs
2.34 1.15 35secs
2.34
2.37
2.35
2.36
Av mid 2.35, so pretty much bang on.
These days am able to do the first rep as an "ease in", rather than a "too fast", meaning it's easier to keep it on track.
Breathing befitted the level I was putting in today, so feeling good.
You do know him SG - you'd recognise him if you saw him. Late middle aged, receding hairline and glasses. Torso not as toned these days as it was a few years back...good sesh by the way.
I know what you mean Philip. Edale Skyline (I think) recently had a strictly enforced cut-off at a checkpoint. Unfortunately part of the route was unexpectedly narrowed by a new fence and the tail end runners had to queue, which made them miss the cut-off - much debate on the FRA forum!
Lit - rule 143 is very interesting. Inov-8 make a range of waterproof clothing that is deliberately transparent so a race number is visible through it. As for celan - that rules out SG's vest, and the objectionable section has to apply to Philpubs shorts
Nice bit of road rage this morning. On a short section of narrow country lane linking two footpaths a speeding motorists took quite vociferous objection to my suggesting that driving slower would present less of a risk to my life. After voicing to him my puzzlement that someone resembling a more intimate part of the female anatomy could have mastered, albeit rudimentarily, the ability to put a motorised vehicle into motion I then carried on my route, as I was a little tight for the train. His response, given I was in running kit (including top!) and running to work was "that's right, run away then"....
I always found two things are certain to provoke irate reactions.
Telling someone getting angry to calm down, and telling someone driving too fast to slow down.
Always better to end these things cheap though, as a lone runner you're prettyvulnerable, and no doubt pretty identifiable. Some inbred looking teen was shouting some "encouragement" the other day, as his mate's van was waiting to enter a busy road. Would have been so easy to punch his little punk face, and run off, but in the cool light of day probably best to not.
I do remember some middle aged guy at Maidenhead 10miler which must have been at least 5 years ago, strutting around shirt off post race, in the RAIN, showing off ridiculous stomach definition. But as he'd pootled in a pony time it didn't impress me a jot. Classic disco muscles.
Some people are caught in their ways though. An old guy near me wears shorts whatever the weather, and he's not a runner.
Very subjective though. Even the 'clothing' aspect - 2 long socks and a pair of short shorts
This bloke - right hand side of photo. This was in the Marlow 5...
I was hoping he'd have his number attached to nipple piercings
Nice repping SG and reasonably commensurate across the times.
I had a close call on a short stretch of 60mph road near here on Sunday. I wasn't in any position to run away too fast though.
Club clothing is an interesting discussion. Mrs club have refused to accept one of their lot's Woky time for their club champs. She took her vest off mid race and wound it round her arm (I assume she had something underneath) and hence was not in club kit.
Tonight they have a 5km track race for their club champs. The track is only available to that club tonight so not an open. No club kit = no champs points.
ah the old club kit fascism!
Our club turned up at some bootleg 10k once, Stoke Row or somewhere, so bbotleg a race I was leading for a few km. Downhill first half, making you feel like a legend, horrible drag second half, making you feel toilet.
Anyway, post race, I noticed a guy in our club, very very quickly seemed to be back in "Normal" clothes, even though we had a team pic to take.
He'd worn any old iron to race hadn't he! Contravening the rules.
I didn't overly care, had a chuckle though!
The only time we are mandated to wear club kit is when we do the TVXC, clearly it's a runners club thing
I was following along with the debate nicely and then PMJ posted, and, whilst the individual words made sense to me, the order they were arranged in made my face hurt, so I gave up.
Anyway, very good stuff from Reg/AG there, an impressive performance indeed. And who'd have though that open water in Wales in May would be cold?
Hope all's OK Iron.
SC - sounds like a very decent performance, well done. Doesn't sound like too bad a second half fade. I was on the reserve list for it, as I'd left it too late to enter, but considering my 10K two weeks ago, I don't think I'd have much liked the result.
Scott, can't remember if you posted it here or FB, but that training 5K was mind-blowing. Back to it in style!
Everything's been a bit stop start for me. Week before last I tried coming back towards my usual mileage, then got an ankle soreness that kept me out a couple of days and also made sure I came back relatively easy. Then, just as I started building back up again, I started having really unpleasant left-side lower back pains, which stopped me again for a couple of days.
Went along to the physio, and had what must be the ideal physio appointment, which is to say that he fixed me. There and then. No 3 weeks rehab stretching, second appointments etc, just massage, some pushing of bits and pieces in various directions, and a bit of sports tape in a lovely star pattern on my back. Turns out that with the hip I'd been overcompensating and relying on the left side more, and it was the strain of that. He said I could just keep running, but leave the fast stuff for a few days.
So I planned 12 with 6 at MP on Saturday, as I figured MP wasn't really 'fast'. That was before I did the first two miles of MP at 5:30. No idea where that came from, but I suffered for it later in the run. Pleasing anyway that 2 miles at 5:30 didn't feel massively hard. Tried 2 x 2m at tempo last night, but it was slower. Mixed bag then.
Cheers Dachs - yes saw the tape on facebook. My back is still a bit tight too - not as bad as my Dad, has a bulge in his L2 and has had 2 epidurals that haven't worked either. Hmmm..
decent reps too - also from SG - pleased the breathing feels right too. Reg - would you rather be a better runner or cyclist though? I'm ok on the bike, nothing special though..
Luton training tonight - about time I got beasted again..
5k last night: this was the second in a series of seven local summer evening 5ks. These are good social events (£5 for entry to the series and the hosting club puts on a spread afterwards) and also quite good as most the local names come out (but not SG) and you get a good race and a fair reflection of form. It was a bit hilly, but the first 0.75 of a mile is downhill and fast and even though the next 0.5 mile is back up, the mile split was 5:55 (with the downhill section about 5.1x pace). From then on, the hills were shorter and shallower so the next miles were mid 6s for 20:02 Garmin at the line but I expect the gun time will be a few second slower.
No big surprises, beat the people I would expect to beat and lost to those I would expect to lose to. Only thing is those lists are changing length with the years.
Used to like that series. Wargrave, everyone's keen, big field. Burnham, (yesterday?) good momentum from the off, but a killer steep (by 5k standards) last 100metres, Maidenhead, on a Wed, flat and quick but suprisingly so, as a lot is dodgy surfaces and tight turns, Wycombe, 2 laps of a local park, and it's all starting to get stale and you're wishing for the end, and then Datchet, another 2 lapper, but then a glorious finish, and lovely setting for end of season love in.
Don't necessarily miss them now, that nervous energy, and the rivalries that build!
Good turnout tho Phil.
8 at 6.57 today. Simple midweek cut form 10 to 8 to vaguely make some sort of compensation
(ps am aware they've added Cookham in as an extra race - and obviously Marlow 5k i never ran as a Marlow runner). Think they've tampered with the order too...
That's when you know you're getting old, when change unsettles you
SG, Cookham yesterday. All the dates are here, all Tuesdays. I never remember Maidenhead on a Wednesday though. Cookham is very different to the other courses as a lot of it is on private land and so somewhere where you don't get to run over for the rest of the year. It is the third year it has been run and a different course each time: this year seems to be the reverse of last year so the wider paths are used to start with and the narrow paths later on.
Reg - Agree about the balance, I think i'll so more swimming in the winter when I get in my 50's etc. Good for suppleness and bloody hard. Plus warmer and safer than biking!!
Decent 5k PMJ - Love those evening summer 5k's - cheap entry and a decent social - perfect. Sounds like a good series.
Training on the grass at Luton last night - 8 x 1k, bit breezy. 3.11 for the first then averaged about 3.06 with the last two 3.04 and 2.58. Surprised myself, although we do the same course for these distances, might have been a teeny bit short I think. Anyway hopefully not..and good prep for the BUPA 10K on Monday.
Not a patch on the banana though eh Philip?
Nice 1k reps there Simon - think faster rather than shorter
Track Wednesday today. Intended a nice simple 5 x 1200 off 90 sec at 5k pace, but time was tight so ended up doing 4 x 1200 (90s) and then 3 x 200 (30s) (which ended up about the same total time anyway, but hey ho!). Happy with the 1200s, as target was 4:15 and they came out relatively comfortably as 4:15, 4:12, 4:12, 4:13. Not so happy with the 200s - reinforces just how little pure speed I have, as even working hard I could only get them to come out as 37, 36, 36
Total session including warm up etc was 7M at 6:30
Nope, the banana race was great, a 5k that measured under 3 mile so I got a sub-17 and a win to boot.
Good reps from both you and SC, but grass reps don't count same as running without a Garmin has no training benefit.
Lazy 10 at lunch, 7:30 pace, then track tomorrow. Will try some longer reps so maybe bus' 1200s but just 4 of them
Phil, shows how long I've been off the scenes for there to be a race held 3 years that I'm unaware of it. Don't like the sound of it being a different course each year though. That always risks it being inaccurate for me.
Maidenhead was a Wed for years and years, from my first go in 06 through to 10 at least. Think some event was always held there on a Tuesday that made the odds.
Can't beat those short 5ks
I remember a "santa run" at Marlow one year, and was a little suspicious that even wearing all that gear I still got a nice time in! Bloody second though, as some legend dressed in gold shoes stormed it, was away within about 100metres. You could argue taking it seriously isn't really what it's about for this race, but i'm sure some local woman took it even further by wearing shorts instead of the full gear!
Nice enough paces Bus, as knowing you I expect you didn't do anywhere near long enough warm up. And 30secs is pretty low recovery for 200s. I did some 200s after the 400s in my 6x800 session off 30s, and after the treat of longer recoveries for the other bits, you feel 30secs!
Still don't quite understand what quoting 7miles at 6.30 does for you though. If you log that, you'd surely read that as a tempo effort. Or makes you try and "Push" the pace on the recoveries, slowing the actual reps down.
Simon, have you measured the route, or just concerned they are short from your ferocious reps!!
I think I recall doing a 2.57 1k once, as part of a "fun" evening with Sandhurst, but that would have been a massive 400, and then easing down. Either way, it would be a 5-10min recovery job after that, and a standalone k.
If you're knocking that out, and it's not short, that's massive. Especially on grass, which hasn't that same spring, or feel like you're not working as hard as the track does.!
Dachs, having your one minor niggle for the year I see.
Hopefully the physio was an actual fix job rather than our local chaps "back snap" that works for about a week, then you're back there 
(disclaimer, just bantz, he's great)
3rd sesh of run club tonight. Added a few randoms from the HW FB, so we ended up with 8.
Bit more testing than last week, as the pace/fitness range was a bit more spread. So a bit too much waiting around, and I had to scrap some of the intense stuff.
Also realised it can be quite hard at times to explain to people what would seem a very simple principle to us runners.
So plenty for me to think over and scrub up on for next week, when hopefully some of the 6/7 from work who were missing will turn up.
Off topic, but just seen there are tickets available for this year’s Six Day London: 25 – 30 October. I'd quite like to go but will struggle to find anyone else in my family to go with, so was wondering if anyone else fancied a night out watching silly buggers pedal ludicrously fast round the Olympic track? Seem to be a few cyclists on the thread.
http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/sixdaylondon
Shame - would be interested, but it's half term and we're away...
SG - Nice easy 2 miles easy warm up, and even some leg swings for the old adductor. I'm a changed man - well, too old to get away with it these days that is
As for the 7 at 6:30, not intended to be anything other than a record of the total miles run with the pace being kinda irrelevant, other than for Garmin averages. It's in my training log as "Interval session" with details in the comments field, but I'll not add it in the session report again if it makes you feel better
Sounds like you've had a much better turn out tonight, so worth persevering?
Another holiday Bus?
Nice outings gents.
PMJ that looks good. Is there a daily list of what events are on? I could not see one.
There is a list of what is on each day on http://sixday.com/events/london/