Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Overdone it?
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Richard - ouch, think I'd have run out of time too
its good that you gave it a go though and I know I'd overdo it as well.
Tommy - not familiar with Daniels but I almost always use an HR monitor. Easy runs around 70% of max HR and quality runs based on McMillan paces.
Bloody hell, Richard - that's a brutal sounding session at your current paces. Good job you ran out of time I reckon. Though I would say that your 5k time now looks ridiculously out of kilter. Get to a parkrun and run it hard - I'd be amazed if you didn't crack sub-20 off the back of even doing a 2 x 2.2m session at those paces!
Tommy - Sounds promising - hope you get the nod you're after on Thursday. Just the 4 easy miles for me last night too - all quiet on the tendon front however, so feel like I'm making progress.
I've also got a copy of Daniels, and refer to it occasionally, but feel to really make it work, I need to get some accurate Max HR data. Got the gear, but haven't used it properly yet. It's on my to do list once I've got the confidence in the tendon to attack some hills to near puking point! At the moment, I plug recent race times into McMillan, and work out my training paces from that. When I was up to 30 miles per week, my ideal training week would have included: -
1 x Long Run
2 x Easy Runs
1 x Tempo
1 x Intervals
All within the ranges prescribed by McMillan, though Easy paces at the slower end of his range. The reality was that I was racing too often to get properly into that pattern, so treated the race as a tempo substitute and kept the Intervals - either Miles, KM, 800s or 400s depending on what I was targeting race wise, and what I'd not done for a while. The cricket season also complicated matters further and was the point I started picking up niggles. Some tough decisions to make next summer.
Lou - Great to get 7 miles in without any issues.
Hmmm...ignore me on the 5k time, Richard - I see you haven't got one now I've looked again! Had it in my head that you were around 21:30 for some reason. Still, I'm sure I remember you saying you couldn't see yourself cracking sub-20? My point that you're probably about there from your 2 x 2.2 session still stands.
Thanks all.
Lou - I know the table you mean which plots tempo pace against time. Will hope to use that when I'm back to full running. My hand is fine it's my hip which is giving me a few problems, Mace has the injured hand.
Bob - just had another read back and saw your comment regarding Rushcliffe parkrun being over distance, has that been confirmed? Whenever I've ran it, it has always come out slightly over on my garmin but assumed that was me taking a crap racing line. Would like to do a 5k that isn't a parkrun sometime this year which probably means the Running with David 5k or alternatively the one over in Chesferfield on a Saturday morning.
Tommy - No confirmation that Rushcliffe is over-distance, but it's always come out at 3.16 to 3.18 miles for me, whereas Colwick has always come out almost bang on, and the 5k I did at Newstead was 5k absolutely on the nose. On that basis, I'm assuming that my racing line is ok nowadays (I do consciously try to run the tangents) and also that the GPS isn't too bad.
As per our chat at Bingham last week, I'll probably see you at one of those Run With David nights, though expect I'll generally be targeting the mile rather than the 5k. Should be there for the October one hopefully (16th). What's the Chesterfield Saturday morning one? Is it UKA licensed / PO10 do you know? Might be worth the trip if it is...probably not if it isn't!
Hmmm, Rushcliffe is where my 5K time is from so hopefully it is long and my 5k time is not as bad!
Chesterfield one is ARC permitted (don't think they come up on PO10?). Details are here anyway...
http://northderbyshirerc.jimdo.com/our-races/no-walk-in-the-park-5k/
Seems like a fairly decent standard, generally more sub 20 runners than Rushcliffe it would seem.
The October Run with David 5k might work for me as I can use it as a mid-week speed session.
Even quicker if you post all yours twice.
Just noticed this. Yes. Exactly like Sir Alex. And if we run outside of the target zones we get a slap.
I think I would literally collapse if I tried this one... 6miles at MP yes, and quite often, but 6miles at HMP? Just wow. Maybe i'm soft core.
I think I would literally collapse if I tried this one... 6miles at MP yes, and quite often, but 6miles at HMP? Just wow. Maybe i'm soft core.
Collapse or fuck up your calves. One or the other.
I have done 10miles with 6 @ hmp, just once, as part of the P&D 55-70 marathon schedule. I didn't collapse or fuck up my calves, but it was really hard. It was the biggest session of their lactate cycle and had been built up to over several weeks with 4 and 5 mile versions. There was a discussion about this on another thread which prompted me to look it up in my garmin connect history and I remember doing it too (one of those runs that sticks in your memory for some reason!).
Anyway, the average pace for the 6 miles did come out around hmp (6:42) but what's noticeable is that the mile splits are all over the place (6:36-6:49), with fast first and last miles (when the end was in sight) and fluctuating between slower and faster miles in the middle. It felt really demoralising and I kept feeling like I was flagging and had to push myself to speed up again. If I compare that to yesterday's 3x 2mile session, where all three reps came out almost exactly the same, that felt much more controlled - it was hard work but I never felt like I wasn't going to be able to complete the session. And it didn't wreck me for the rest of the day either. And I'd feel more confident that I could replicate the pace in an actual race.
Does sound like a pretty brutal session, maybe one to build up to.
I have been offered a place for the Royal Parks HM on 6th October, it looks a good event and I've looked at doing it in the past. However, I doubt I'll be ready for an all out attempt at an HM in early October, in fact I might not be running more than 30 minutes by then. Could possibly run it as a tempo/prgressive type run but it's quite a long way to go for a training run.
Tommy - Think you're right. ARC and UKA are 'rival' associations as it were I believe, so PO10/RB exclude ARC races. Does look a good standard though. Quite often find myself running solo at Rushcliffe, so one to bear in mind. Have just realised that I'm going to see Johnny Marr at Rock City on the night of the October Run with David event by the way. Arse! I also miss the first XC of the season due to being at a music festival, and thoughts of the Robin Hood HM got canned when a mate reminded me we were at Wembley for NFL that day. Makes it sound like I have a whirlwind social calendar, but it really isn't the case - just bad bloody timing.
And that HM is only 3 weeks away, be careful! Particularly as you say you might only be running 30 mins by then...a Half Marathon as a progressive tempo in half an hour sounds quite tricky.
Richard - I'll stick my neck out and say you'll definitely be closer to 20:00 than 21:20 on the 21st at the very least!
Saw the physio again last night, he's happy with the progress and thinks it should be fully fixed in the next week or so. However, he thinks that the Royal Parks HM is a bit soon but Worksop should be fine, assuming that there are no set backs. Permission to increase to ~45 minute easy runs for the next few days, along with stretching and strengthening.
4.5 miles ran last night, which is the furthest I've ran since the 10k on 1st September. Most of it ran at easy pace, although 3rd mile came about a bit quicker, at what I guess you would call 'steady' pace.
With regards to the term 'steady' pace, does anbody use this as a training zone? I've never intentionally ran at this pace, but have seen it referred to quite a lot. However, I can't work out if there's any physiological benefit to it or whether it's just to make a chnage from easy pace?
As I understand it steady is roughly marathon pace, but you see a few schedules, the RW ones particularly, with long (~15miles) at steady pace, which seems a bit much to me.
I don't (intentionally) run at that pace either Tommy. Occasionally I've found that if I've had a few days off (or of reduced mileage like you) due to niggles or circumstance, that easy pace can drift up into that sort of area with fresher legs.
As Lou says, it's something that's pushing up between HMP and MP (though closer to the latter) and I've viewed it as perhaps only having benefits for those targeting longer races, or those doing larger weekly mileage than I've yet managed that could support an additional light quality session for improving stamina.
Tommy - I believe "steady" is between MP and "easy" and i never consciously aim for it because, as you allude to, i've always thought of it as a nothing zone and just a pace that i will hit temporarily during a progressive run.
Hi All - been busy in meetings last two days and then eating (and a little bit of drinking) with them at night so not been able to post.
All my curent pace zones below. The only times I run at steady pace tend to be as a transitional mile between my easy warm up to something faster or when I have been coming back from injury/start of a period of training where I maybe run a 8.5 miles at steady just to get my body used to working at a pace faster than easy.
I think as a regular training zone it is a bit useless as its slower than any race pace and too fast to not affect your body in some way and so spoil other training sessions.
And as regards 6 miles at HMP - I ran 6 miles exactly in my 40 mins alternating between MP and HMP recently and that left me totally zonked - I don't think running the whole 6 at HMP would have been possible 6*6:30 = 39 mins
Easy 7.50-8.45 Steady 7.05-7.35 MP 6.50-6.55 HMP 6.30-6.35 Tempo 6.25 10k 6.15-6.20 5K 6.05-6.10
EDIT: I also have a recovery speed which is 9:15 (as much greater as I want) - I made this zone up myself just to make sure that when I do a recovery run it does not become an Easy run
Thanks everyone, don't think I need to include it as part of regular training then. Although I might try and run at that pace for a litle longer once the hip is fully mended before starting anything faster.
Lou - I think you're right , I'm sure I saw it on a RW training plan and agreed that 15 miles at effectively MP is probably a bit OTT.
Bob - good luck with parkrun tomorrow - hope the achilies doesn't react.
Richard - when is your mega food based HM? Hope all goes well if it's this weekend.
Morning all, my steady pace is 7:15-8 and I normally like to use it by accident when I'm supposed to be doing easy pace, especially on long runs. I'm not sure if that's recommended, though.
Bob - good luck with parkrun tomorrow and hope no injury effect.
Tommy - good to see you are on the mend - 45 mins easy running allowed - I think that gets you up to about a 30 mile week on 6 days running so sounds like you are on the mend - fingers crossed.
GNR paces given to me are 7 miles at Easy to Steady, 3 miles at MP and last 3 miles at HMP - will probably get me round in about 1:36.
It's a little bit of a shame for me that miles 11 and 12 are uphill!
After the race I then have a 2 mile warm down planned to the nearest metro as need to get back for my dad's 80th birthday so need to beat the crowds - busy day!
Skinny - Some of those paces are beginning to look a bit eye-watering! Interesting re: the Recovery pace. I find this so difficult to keep to, particularly as it tends to be in the aftermath of a race when mind and body are still saying 'move you bugger'! It's been a long time since anything has come out at over 9:00 even though I have tried. Hope you enjoy the GNR on Sunday. Driving rain I hear...though apparently the wind driving it will be at your back for the majority of the race at least!
Tommy - Thanks, and yes, seems reasonable if you're not doing any other quicker work. Sometimes it's nice psychologically just to feel yourself moving along again at a brisker clip after a period of downtime / slower paced running. It's the achilles lesser known cousin the Posterior Tibial Tendon (PTT) that I'm struggling with BTW rather than the achilles itself. Runs down the inside of your lower leg, behind your ankle and into your foot. It's at that point it runs behind the ankle that it's been bothering me, and has focused down to one very localised spot now. Realised last night however that I'd actually run 5 times in 6 days, and 7 times in 9 in fact; it's feeling ok so I'm getting some confidence back. Resting it today other than a brisk walk and some stretching however, before it gets some hammer tomorrow morning.
Lit - Must be a fairly heavy week you've got coming up before you begin to scale back again ahead of the Robin Hood? Has Stevie got anything particularly nasty looking lined up for you that we can wince over?
Bob - did I read somewhere that your wife has started running? - I do the first mile and a half of a recovery run with my wife who runs at between 10 and 11 min miles and then after that the last mile and a half feels quite an effort upping it to 9:15!!
The pace zones have been like that since middle of May - still hard work hitting them so think the improvement curve is flattening off.
I've seen various forecasts for the GNR - got to be better for running than the 26 degrees I ran it in last time with a banana costume on though!
Bob - next week? Don't know yet. But I am running 16 miles on Sunday as my LSR.
My paces are: Recovery 9+, Easy 8-9, Steady 7:15-8, MP 7-7:05, HMP 6:40-6:45, Tempo 6:35, 10k 6:25-6:30, 5k 6:13-6:18, 3k 5:58-6:03.
Lit - I think our HMs in a few weeks could be quite interesting - you've done a lot more miles and longer runs than me - I think I've only done one run over 13 this year so in theory (and according to PBs) the HM distance is moving towards your territory.
Pleased to say I haven't got a 3k pace - looks a bit nasty!
Although I've seen people say steady when they really mean easy.
Good zone to hit in base periods, or when unsure of a niggle/building back up, where MP or quicker might be an ask.
Skinny - I haven't used it. It's just in the list of paces.
Skinny - Yes, she used to run (not competitively though) before the young 'un was born, as I used to sit lazing on the sofa with my ample belly and wonder why she bothered! She fell out of the habit until I changed my diet and exercise habits last year, and has slowy got drawn back into it. The little 'uns still too young for us to run together at the moment, otherwise that sounds a good strategy for keeping the pace down - she's doing a similar pace to your wife - between 10:00 and 10:30 miles.
P.S. Was that banana suit your only running 'kit' previously then?
Lit - 16 miles? Tasty. All at Long Run pace or anything quicker to twist the knife?
Just at normal easy pace, but actually easy this time rather than a bit too fast by mistake. Or at least not taking-the-piss fast.
Heh. Reading between the lines paints a nice picture of some of the conversations that go on between you lot with the feedback you get back from training runs!