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I haven't actually done any yet
I think it's next week's session, so I'll let you know - I'm just remembering last year and thinking it would be ok, but really struggling off what felt like very little recovery. I think I found the 800s easiest last time, oddly.
I find 90 seconds fine, to be honest, though not as taking-the-piss generous as the ones with 2 minutes. Maybe that's why the 800s felt easier, madbee? In any case I did the 200s in about 2:05 last time and 2:07 this time, so arguably the 90 secs recovery is easier for me on the % method.
Hmm - looking back I ran the first lot in a flat park and did 0.38m for each rep (so slightly over 600m) in 2:09s.
Today I did just 0.37m (so slightly less than 600m) and they took an average of about 2:13 - having said that my heart really wasn't in it today and it wasn't flat so sometimes you've just got to pocket the session, accept that you've done it and move on.
I was a bit bemused when I spotted them in the finish fennel
I have a slight suspicion that they just did the one lap. It was only the finish that was grassy by the way - more footage here.
You seemed very relaxed at the finish, muddy!
Oops! Maybe I find them easy because I'm being naughty too. How can you tell? What difference does the elastic band make?
Nice videos - both of you exhibiting excellent running form and making it look effortless.
I've entered Lichfield Half, which I think might be four laps of Muddy's 10k course around Fradley. I remember about 15 years ago as a young geotechnical engineer I spent a whole summer digging trial pits for what is now Fradley Park distribution centre. Them were t'days.
Having entered a half marathon, I've also decided to drop straight into week 7 of the HM plan in pfitzinger's new book. I think this includes 1k reps tomorrow - lovely.
Mace - There was something on the radio the other day describing Alexey Leonov's first space walk, which was 50 years ago this week. Apparently, he had trouble getting back into the airlock, so had to depressurize his suite. Slightly stressful as you can imagine, and the story goes that he sweated 6-7 litres. I guess he could just pour it out of his boots afterwards. Mind you, it might not have been only sweat.
Cheers Lou - the Lichfield Half is point to point starting and finishing at two points in Lichfield, though it does take in Fradley. It's flat as a pancake for miles around there as you probably recall and I'd be surprised if there were any significant ups and downs.
I don't know whether it bothers you or not but the event organisers don't get their races UKA licenced so it won't appear on RunBritain.
Pete - the band pulls my knees together and to keep them apart I have to use glut medius. Without the band, I can feel my hamstrings working. You can also feel with your hands whether your glutes are tensing!
so these well-buried core muscles - what do they do that the surface ones can't? Can you feel them burn, get DOMS, etc?
The eponymous Joseph Pilates had diastasis recti, where the two sides of the six-pack separate. Usually it only happens to pregnant women and babies.
We used to do something similar with a ball between our knees, probably the same effect. I think the deep core muscles are the ones that you use for posture and stability, and they stop you getting back problems and stuff. Also I think they include pelvic floor muscles so stop you weeing yourself. I don't think you're meant to 'feel the burn' though.
My glutes tense so much that I used to really struggle with an exercise in pilates class where we'd be in a bridge and then we were supposed to tense and then relax the glutes. So I'd do the 'tensing' part and then I'd be stuck and the teacher would laugh at me.
I was feeling left out, so I've just done 6*600m with 90 seconds recovery, the intervals came out an average of 2:17, happy enough with that.
EDIT: Lou - do you still do the TRX stuff?
Well done Tommy - good session.
I'm interested in what previous P&Ders think about the below.
My friend who I am travelling down to the Manchester Marathon with has run 12 marathons before with a PB of 2:47 but a best last year of 3:07. We haven't agreed to actually run the race together but are starting to have conversations to decide whether or not we will.
Last weekend he did 18 miles with 14 at MP in 6:41/mile. At start of March he ran 22.5 miles in 7:32 with last 3 at 7:08 and he is generally following the P&D up to 55 mile plan - so same as me.
Because his MP was 4 secs per mile faster than mine and he has generally hit paces a little faster than mine I sent a mail saying ti was a shame because his speeds were just slightly too fast for me to dare to attempt for my first marathon and so I would have to control myself to let him slip very very slowly into the distance.
His reply really surprised me as follows:-
'I’m not sure I will be going for a sub 3. Although 6.41 gives a good margin, I know from previous marathons that I always run about 15 seconds per mile slower in the marathon than in my MP runs. I am thinking of trying 6.52 but expecting to slow down. Under 3:05 might be my target'
Now everyone is different but surely he can set off at a faster pace than that? If you can do 14 miles in training at 6:41 on your own why go at 6:52? I'm dying to tell him to at least go for 6:45 - 6:50 and we could actually run together for first 20 but I don't want to ruin his race - what do previous marathoners think?
I'm far from an expert.
If you have the same edition of P&D as me (Second Edition) then do the first two core exercises and you should notice a difference in the way the abs engage.
Also then try and do the Leg Pushaway (advanced) from the Advanced Core Session - if you feel your lower back arching away from the floor then you should not be doing the advanced but should be doing the basic. I am still at basic level but must have been at remedial level when I started doing Pilates.
I'd say he's run 12 marathons before and so probably knows his body and capabilities pretty well. Maybe he's blown up horribly in the past. Or maybe he just wants to take it easy and enjoy his race? I'm not an expert but if he's hit paces in the past in training and not in the marathon I'd wonder what else is going on. It could be any number of things but he might struggle with fuelling (is he carb loading enough?) or hydration or just not be mentally tough enough to keep the strong pace going after 20. Or there might be some underlying injury. Maybe one to tentatively explore with him on a long run. Or just leave him to it and run your own race.
Fair enough Lou, I've been messing around with some TRX exercises over the last few weeks. Seems to be helping with core strength, although I'm not sure if it's the right core muscles having read the above
.
Muddy – You look like you are out for a casual jog and even have time for a wave!
Tommy – Good session there.
Skinny – Agree with Mcflooze if he’s run 12 marathons before I’d suggest he knows what kind of shape he’s in. If his best last year was 3.07, then 3 hour pace doesn’t seem overly conservative. I also think it’s pretty common for people to run their MP runs considerably faster than they can manage in an actual marathon.
Promising session for me last night. 10x3 mins with 2 recovery. Some of the reps overran a little so ended up with 5.5 miles of effort at an average of 5.31 pace. For the first time in a while I felt really strong and controlled through the whole session so I’m hoping this means I’m getting back to where I was.
Skinny, I think your friend has probably run more marathons than all of us put together! I think he might be talked into a nice 6:48 pace though... I've both times run my MP runs a bit slower than I ran in the actual marathon but I'm a girl.
20 miles for me early this morning. But not 14 @ MP. That would have been going too far.
Lit bet you'd finished your 20 before I was even out of bed.
Back in UK
- we were actually landing during eclipse but I didn't have a window seat so couldn't see a thing.
Thanks for answers to my question - he's not running it for pleasure - who in their right mind would do 18 weeks of P&D to cruise round the real thing!
I think I might try and nudge his pre race plan down to 6:50 and then aim for carrying him along at 6:48 and hope he doesn't notice
.
Ultimately though i think you are right McF,we need to be very clear with each other beforehand that we're going to run our own races I think.
Well... depends how lazy you were.
I didn't need to go into the office by 9 today, so finished my run around 9:30, just in time to watch the eclipse in my back garden (taking care not to go blind) while drinking chocolate milk and eating muffins.
Skinny - whenever I have run races with other people it's always been very clear we were allowed to abandon each other at any point that seemed sensible! Indeed, in my first marathon, my friend had to have a poo at 7 miles and I clearly wasn't waiting for that.
Now who's bringing poo to the thread?? You're just encouraging DT to come along with some horror story of when he was running somewhere and fell into a toilet (probably a disabled one!)
6:50s until one or other of you decides it doesn't suit sounds like a plan, Skinny. Weekly mileage must affect how 'MP' runs relate to actual marathon race pace. Tapering makes less of a difference if your mileage is low to start with. Thanks for the pointer to the P&D core exercises. I can do them easily but choose not to as they make one hip clunk.
Been to the physio. Mostly he wanted to talk to me about 'female athlete triad'! Foot seems basically OK, possibly bone stress thingy. He suggested a crash course of vit D supplements and observed (as many have) that I don't look like a long-distance runner, more like an 800m runner or a lightweight rower.
McF - I forgot to mention I saw someone running with a buggy on a leash today! This allowed her to push the buggy ahead and let go for a bit.
I don't look much like a long-distance runner either and my right hip does that clunky thing too. Perhaps we are long-lost twins, marrows! Actually though the hip thing doesn't hurt so apparently it is okay for me to keep clunking, though disconcerting for others.
What is the female athlete triad?
Female athlete triad
It says we're going to die.
Though on a more positive note, I'm pretty sure I don't have the one that involves not eating enough food, and after your tales of custard tarts yesterday I suspect you don't either.
I would say that is likely for all of us!
Apart from the women's stuff which I would rather not know about are you actually displaying any of the other symptoms?
I was actually googling images of female rowers for an idea of what you looked like - most of the images cut off just above the knee in an almost comical perfect opposite of your avatar.
Ah....Lit and her poo stories. I have nothing to add at present. It's all been fairly low key in that respct these last 10 days or so.
I don't think I would agree at all to run a race with anyone, I wouldnt want that responsibility. In London I found I had plenty of people to run with.
I noticed in Muddys video some of the guys who finished before him looked stockier than you would expect a 35 minute 10k man to look.
I don't think I have been so underwhelmed by anything as I was this morning, since I went to see a James gig in the late 90s and instead of playing all the classics they decided to trial their new and inferior album tracks on us!
A fairly unpleasant run last night. Was supposed to be 10 with 7 at mp but became 7 with 4 at mp. I think the previous nights beer/wine and curry were still in the system. It free' me up to do a mini LT session on Saturday now though, following the recent debate.
Just reading that FAT stuff makes me think about this week in US - the other 5 or 6 people I was with were all on the large side and constantly marvelled at the food I put away each meal time - this is a common theme when people eat out with me and has been since I was very young.
Marathon training just seems to be increasing this talent to super power levels