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P + D training for VLM 2013
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Mark - LOL, don't think the thought hasn't crossed my mind!
I look like Tom Hanks in Philadelphia, if he swallowed a ten pin bowling ball.
The wind is a bastard innit. I mean, what is the point in attempting 5k paced 1200m intervals in bastard wind. I hate it. That was why treadmills were designed, because someone said one day "lookie here, I cannot do my 5k paced intervals properly as there was a 20mph North Easterly wind and it just fucked up me Garmin stats so, I am going to make a roller thingy to run on instead". Remind me to do mine next week on said roller thing. Today's were a bit screwed, didn't hit pace because of wind and obviously recovering from illness still but even so, it has pissed me off.
Did 8.3 miles (not killing myself to do another 1.7 miles to satisfy Prick&Dick). Paces were actually not too bad, all between 7:03 and 7:13 (my last 5k was August and was 7:06m/m) so why am I moaning...? BECAUSE THEY BROKE ME. I was finished at end of last one. I HATED THEM.
Hang on, who was talking about being 9 stone and male? Chris or Mark? That my dears, is why you run very fast too. I am going to diet myself down to gain an extra bit of speed I think.
Ten - hope wife isn't in too much pain and glad to hear daughter recovering.
Chris I love the Adizero Tempos. They aren't racing flats (all the gear no idea me if I bought racing flats) but they are nice and light. Make such a difference. Hang on, I never wore them today! That is why I couldn't hit sub 7 miles...
Chick - in your honour, I shall run a HM after Manchester naked.
Nice to see your back to fiting fitness HeOw
Chris - Are the adios for mild overpronators or is that the tempos? Just looked at what I have bought (asics ds) and they are a full 4 oz heavier than yours
, but reading a review a chap trains in asics ds but races in adios.
Adios are the elite marathoners choice of shoe Men. Hence why I won't be buying them! You could wear them though.
Looked up Adizero tempos, they are 300g. My Newtons are lighter than that and they aren't even racers....
I could never wear Adidas shoes anyway as they only fit narrow feet.
but in comparison to my "Brooks made by Tarmac," they are like feathers Surrey.
Day off tomorrow, going to France for lunch, like you do.
I've had Adios, too tight and narrow for me. Kinvara 3's for me, 226g, vey light shoe.
15 W - you should go get a pair and smash those Kenyans.
SR - The Adios are a mere 210 grammes SR. I really should be a sales rep!
I personally don't think the weight makes much difference at all. Its all about finding the shoe that fits your feet best. After all we will be wearing the things for long enough on the day so first and foremost they have to be comfy. And we all have different feet. My feet are minging by the way. My wife can't even bare to look at them!
Hang on, who was talking about being 9 stone and male? Chris or Mark? That my dears, is why you run very fast too. I am going to diet myself down to gain an extra bit of speed I think.
That would be Chris, HeOw. Mark was talking about being 8 STONE AND MALE.
My taper diet started today.
PS: while we're on 'my shoes are lighter than yours', I would like to add that my magic new NB 890s are a mere 217g, despite being wide enough for normal-sized feet. I will be wearing the Brooks concrete boots for the marathon though.
I have been 9 stone forever (well since puberty anyway). I am almost certain I am male (although its been touch and go after a few of those icy snowy training runs).
Yeah, you try having boobs and running in the cold - they're always out in front getting colder. That's where the expression 'freezing your tits off' comes from.
Can I ask a cheeky non VLM question? If I want to target a marathon for October as my second marathon and that marathon is very very hilly (it is a mile of climbing and descending) would using p&d still make sense or would I be better off just running up and down hills a lot?
Background to this is that VLM will be my first marathon and I'm addicted. I've read p&d but not been using it. I originally planned to try p&d for my second marathon but then decided to do this very hilly trail marathon instead (greensand marathon).
While I've had the time, I have done a review of my training and in particular the heart rate stats. I've gradually realised over the last few months that something wasn't right with my assumption for my max heart rate, because the training results consistently displayed a lower range at each level of effort. So I've done a lot of digging around my records (it's good to keep records!).
The more I look at the evidence for my max of 191, the more it looks like it was a HRM blip that I took to be true. It wasn't taken with a garmin, and so I don't have a chart to eliminate spikes. However, every subsequent garmin reading of that level that I can find with a chart has been an obvious spike!
I have worn a garmin for some races that have some quality heart rate charts with no spikes. Nice gradual progressions with a higher rate at the end where I have sprinted for the finish line. To summarise the most reliable top readings:
179bpm at the end of a ten mile race
179bpm at the end of a half marathon
181bpm at the end of a 10k race
So it would appear that my true max could be 10 bpm less than I had originally thought. If I take my max to be 181bpm, this gives me a lactate threshold training range of 151-165bpm (77% to 88% HRR). My heart rate during my final 7m LT run were:
mile average: 152/153/158/158/159/157/160bpm
mile peak: 159/158/165/161/163/160/164bpm
This looks much more representative of the level of effort I was feeling! Likewise, a typical long run shows my heart rate was by and large in the correct range, except where I got carried away and ran faster than I should have! I'm now pretty convinced that I should work to a max of 181bpm. Maybe it might be a beat or two higher in reality, but I feel confident that I can base my post marathon training on this more reliable figure.
Feeling knackered this morning, I might do a recovery run today and do the MLR tomorrow.
Lit those NB sound super light, I have some mizuno flats that weigh about the same as that, wish I could wear them in the marathon!
Khanivore, I think the p&d would work for a hilly marathon you would just need to include some hill work into the plan, I think it does actually talk about hills in the book.
Khanivore - P&D don't specifically prescribe hill training, but say that you should try to mimic your target marathon profile in your training (particularly during long runs). So run a hilly long run if you are targeting a hilly marathon.
I don't think I can get in any Adidas shoes, feet way too fat, as they need to be to carry 12st9lbs
HeOw I did my VO2max on my treadmill, 8 miles with 5 x 600m intervals at a lovely controlled constant pace, whilst watching 24, series 1.
I think a lot of people get too hung up on heart rate sometimes, it's useful for training with but I think RPE is more effective if you can get it right. It sounds like you have found the correct range to run at and nailed your RPE too so that sounds perfect.
Don't forget heart rate can be affected by fatigue and loads of other factors so on race day when you are fully tapered it might look a bit different to your training sessions. On the other hand it could also be a lot higher on race morning when the adrenaline is pumping, that's why I don't race with one!
Taper diet ? I have been running 60 odd miles a week for 15 weeks and only lost 4lbs
...I am hardly going to lose anything during a bloddy taper,
I did my 7 with strides on the TM yesterday, our gym has just been re furbished and wow the new treddys are amazing, they all got tellys and internet, bit sodding late in the day though, could have done with them over the last couple of months, I would have saved myself alot of windy freezing cold runs, the old one just used to face a wall/mirror and had just miles/speed display and I couldnt get my head round running on them.
Feel like I have a sort of crick in my right ankle so may give todays 12 a miss
will see.
Mark - I don't normally wear a HRM in races, but I'm glad that I did on a few occasions for review afterwards.
I probably hit my max while waiting for the race to start
I do wear mine to review after like Ten, when I wore it in my last marathon I fell over a bloody timing mat and bombed at about 17 miles, my HR rate dropped big time but I couldnt run any faster all weird ..shock I guess
it all went badly wrong after that could barely 9.30 min mile till mile 25, when everything picked up HR went up a bit and I did a 7.30 !!
at the end of the first week of taper my plan shows a 10k race with a 16mi longrun the following day. Do you suppose it matters much if i switch them about? Do the long run on a Saturday and the 10k on the Sunday.
I can't find any convenient 10k's to do on the Saturday, but there's one practically on my doorstep on Sunday morning. I guess my race performance won't be at it's peak for the 10k after a 16mile run the day before, but i don't really think that's the point of the tune-up races in this plan.
I have just been browing this Hal Higdon plan for marathons - there is a real lack of MRP miles and also no medium runs. Should have done that one instead!!
It also has more speed work too.
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51133/Half-Marathon-Advanced-Training-Program
Ten - my max HR is pretty high at 209 but it rings true with all my readings and my easy pace HR is around 150bpm whereas to some, that is their lactate threshold HR. I would say yours is definitely around 181. I put paid to the theory of 220 (think it is 220?) minus age gives approx max HR. My HRM has gone to pot, it is not working right at all, I have cleaned it, put new battery in but still not right.
Kharnivore - I am doing Snowdonia marathon end of October and plan to follow 12 week P&D and will just run all my long runs and MLR on the hills. Will do pace work etc on the flat but may swap the V02 intervals for hill sprints instead.
I need to do my 20 miler tomorrow - will this be ok 2 days after V02 session?
Oh and thanks for the tips on the shoes. I haven't got a fooking clue what I,m doing now. !!!!