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P + D training for VLM 2013
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Maybe you are just not refuelling fast enough after a work out? According to various books including p and d you should eat carbs within an hour of finishing. I always have a glass of milk as soon as I get back.
Think I need to take more care with my diet before training. In future ill carry a gel just in case as well.
It wasn't a nice feeling today, I wouldn't like to feel like that during a race!
Thanks for all the advice re the Helsby Half, I think I will try and stick to the plan that week but maybe move the LT run to the Monday before so I have more days between that and the race. I always seem to feel quite good after the General Aerobic run so will do that either on the Wednesday or the Thursday, at least that's the plan so far. I am one of the slower runners trying this plan and I have had a bit of a mental block with getting below 2 hrs for the half, my last 2 races have been 2 hrs and 40 seconds and 2hrs and 41 seconds so I am quite keen to beat it but the marathon is more important.
I am just back from my long run 14 miles at average 10.04 pace, the first 5 miles where hilly but it evened out after that, it's quite nice to have the long run done so early in the weekend
Mark1981 - It sounds like you just hadn't eaten enough for quite a hard session. I tend to have a small snack an hour or so before going out.
15W - the weather has picked up a fair bit in the UK. I can't speak for Manchester, but in my area the flooding has receded significantly (for the time being).
Go Caz / Mennania - Julian Goater is a big proponent of hill sprints to build strength and prevent injury in his book "The art of running faster". I'm wary of starting them during marathon training, because I believe that I'd be more likely to get an injury while increasing mileage at the same time. I do intend to do some hilly sessions, though. Most likely during a midweek GA or MLR.
NN - thanks for clarifying, and good luck with the HM.
YP - I've pm'd you
Finished the fourth week with 15m MLR this morning. I felt a little like I was flagging at 8m, so I took my gel and soon felt like speeding up. I was held up towards the end by some horses blocking a narrow path. Admittedly it was a bridal path
Pacing went pretty well. My pace range for MLR is 10:48 to 9:54, and HR range 141 to 160bpm. My heart rate peaked at 157bpm (avg. 140bpm) and the splits were:
10:34/10:46/10:44/11:00/10:53 (included a pit-stop
)
10:26/10:09/10:12/10:09/10:00
9:53/9:53/9:56/9:51/9:38
I've enjoyed all of the training so far and have found it "comfortably hard", but next weeks training scares me! Starting off with the 9m/5m LT session, and finishing with 16m including 10m @ MP
Eek! I'm going to be dreaming about the following recovery week.
P.S. I have a protein shake for a recovery drink. I don't know if it really helps, but I enjoy it nonetheless
I used to get it towards the end of my long runs, and I would sometimes be so dizzy and lightheaded that I had to sit down to stop myself from fainting. Jelly babies are great for making it go away, although now that I make sure I have a healthy meal the night before a long run, and typically either have breakfast or at least a banana before my long runs, I don't get it any more...
Yesterdays MLR a day late to get some marathon pace done with my club,12.25 miles in 1.42 ave pace 8.20s, which I am hoping is about my marathon pace. I ran with my club knowing it would be faster than LSR pace as this will be the best way for me to get some marathon pace practice, I will do the 12-15 milers with them and drop to a slower group for the 18-22s. So very well organised our leader even took the trouble to go out early and put out some water stops ( including cups) he took so much trouble setting up the group and planning routes its brilliant.
SR I am famous for falling over while running I know I dont pick my feet up enough and have developed a typical long distance runners shuffle, which takes a lot of concentrating to correct Good effort on the treadmill run..it takes alot of mental toughness I think, its so boring.
Mark I think we have all experienced that, I have learnt to never run on empty, despite the fact that some say its a good way to burn extra calories and fat, yes eat more before training and even more the day before a long run.
Ten do you have anyone to run the marathon pace and tempo runs with ? I use my club for those sessions, looks scary on paper but easier in company , I know I couldn't have done 12 @ marathon pace today on my own but somehow managed it quite comfortably and chatted all the way round.
NN - Great MP session! I'm a solo runner (along with the majority - according to the latest RW online survey). I have no doubt, though, that being accompanied by a lycra-clad gym bunny would do wonders for my pace and posture
(I'm not suggesting that this is a description of your running buddies, it's just a daydream).
Although the schedule for next week fills me with trepidation, paradoxically I am looking forward to it
I'll be on cloud nine if I get through it! Wait.... make that when I get through it (positive thinking, positive thinking, ....)
lol...I also love solo running and do 90% on my own, its my thinking time. But all I can think about on tempo runs and speed work is " I wish this was over "
And no my running buddies arent all lycra clad gym bunnies...although I did notice some well developed calf / thighs on the men of course !!
15 West bring the sun back with you
.
Pottermiss well done on your 14 mile run, like you I east at least one hour before heading out the door. why run on empty you will burn it off anyway.
Ten great MLR 15 Miles in the bank.
NN Great running
Happy with my 10 miles this morning 2 miles warm up, 3 mile park run 18:34, 5 miles steady out for my long run tomorrow 18 miles
.
NP - thanks, and hope your LR goes well. The weather is holding up nicely.
Then as soon as it is over you probably go and plan the next, even tougher, speed session
How soon we forget the pain.
Erm..... horses in a church, whatever next?
I meant "bridle" path
Um actually Ten...no !!
LOL - that's just me then. Innate masochistic tendencies, I guess
NN - well done on the long run, sounds like you should be targeting a 3.30 marathon!
Nice easy 5 mile run for me, most of it off road squelching through puddles!
Did my first swim of the year too, 1600 metres at a nice gentle pace.
I did cross country today so am seeing it as a slightly longer tempo run. But with extra mud and hills.
NightNurse - I agree, we are the same person! It is nice to have someone very similar to train with. My best friend was said person, we were so well matched but she moved to Australia!
I did however go out on my 11 miler last night with a girl from club, who is a brilliant runner. She is just upping distance again so was nice to have company. She hasn't done a marathon but after one run with me, is going to do one!
Now 15, you cannot be serious, you couldn't have truly thought your Garmin would last 2 weeks!?! I am lucky to get 3 runs out of mine! Hope you are enjoying your hols.
NoPain, cracking run today, what is your parkrun PB? I am going to do the parkruns on tuneup race days. Will do easy run either side.
Mark, I too suffer with that, more a female hormonal situation BUT if I haven't eaten enough, I am done for. Make sure you are eating well. Carbs!
Training so far this week has been since Tuesday 14 miles; 8.5 miles LT run; 5 mile recovery; 11 hillyish last night; 5 miles recovery tonight. 18 planned tomorrow. I have kept everything very easy (other than LT session) but I am getting worried about the mileage. I will be on to 62 this week and it is hitting territory I have never ran before. Please tell me I won't combust!
HeOw you wont combust !! you are following the plan well it is laid out in a way that our body can absorb the miles gradually , well done on a brilliant week, and how inconsiderate of your friend to move to Australia does she not realise how important your training is ?
Literatin well done on the muddy run not a favourite of mine I must admit
Mark 3.3??? anything will suit me fine , I guess my half marathon in March will give me an idea of true/realistic target time.
NP I guess doing a parkrun is a great way to get some tempo/speed running done, good idea running there and back to get those miles done, how/when do you decide when to do those extra doubles days ? are they extra recovery done on recovery days only ?
Ten more people seem to hate speed work than enjoy it , so yes you are strange..lol
I am down for 15 today I shall be doing this very slowly, 2 reasons, yesterdays 12 plus I am running with my Brother who is targeting 4.15 so will we probably run @10s..lovely
looking forward to a relaxed, sociable ,catchup kind of run.
See how your training goes over the next few months.
I'm just trying to drag myself out of bed for my long run, I don't wanna get up.
NN, what HM are you doing? I was thinking of Wrexham in Feb BUT no point wasting the money and time involved, as I am doing Helsby half in 2 weeks, might as well hang off until March. I am dropping back to 9 miles today, not going to do 18, because my training was originally for Brighton, but I am now doing Manchester, I will peak too soon, so will start at week 16 and repeat couple of weeks I have already done. No harm doing more base building, better than peaking too early!
Mark, hope you are running!
HeOw. A fairly local half Bideford north Devon, a sensible decision to cut back if you have changed your mind, its all too easy to get carried away when things are going well and as you say peak too soon, So what date is Manchester ? is it flat ? well supported etc?
Mark hope you got yourself out of bed, if I can, anybody can believe me, I really dont do mornings, I am practically nocturnal after 20 years of night shifts, I was helped by the fact today that I was meeting my brother to keep him company , he was scheduled 11 so a nice easy 11 in about 1hour 45 then picked up the pace for 4 on my own at 9 s to finish my 15 in 2.22 I have to slow him down he cant get his head around running slower than marathon pace, which for him is about 9.30s so even 10s is plenty quick enough.
61 miles for the week !!
15 mile MLR done this morning. Is easier when I do the runs in the right order.
Just been nosing on Fetch anyone here log their training ? found Pottermiss and NP cant believe I am on page 1 in the mileage league !!
Managed to run in short sleeves and shorts today, doesn't feel like winter at the moment.
NN think you dropped off page one but todays run got me on to it lol
always finish on page 5 or 6 by the end of the year
as for the doubles i introduced them a few years ago to up the miles it just works for me doing 2 on tuesday to a max of 14 miles for both and the same on thursday with a medium long run on the Wednesday, there are some weeks where I will only do 1 run on the thursday if I'm knackered.
Mark well done on the 17miles and 58 for the week.
18 miles done this mornig in near perfect conditions but a bit of mist... Yesterdays run brought my week to a close on 67.5 miles
NN your brother sounds about my pace, but I did my long run yesterday ay 10.04 average so I may be going a bit too quick too.
Good running everyone, I keep forgeting that others are doing the higher mileage plans so I see the long runs and panic that I'm not doing enough! Mark good to see you to got out there in the end.
My recovery 4 today ended up a recovery 3, first and last miles on road, the middle one across a boggy field so a more walk/ leap style of running
but legs feel good now. Garmin froze so couldn't use it, but found a fix on another thread so it's now up and running again, so to speak.
http://www.slideshare.net/gstrosaker/advanced-marathon-training-plan-comparison-higdon-versus-pfitzinger
I did 12 instead of 9, nice and easy 9:30m/m. I do feel like I am just jogging around and getting a tad worried! Promise me, all these extra easy miles will make me faster...! 9 just didn't feel worth it! Legs feel fine, takes mileage to 56 for week, will stick to around 52-56 until after Helsby Half then will start on the long runs.
NN, wow, 20 years of night shifts?! That is brutal.
NoPain, thanks, will read that.
Mark, well done! Agree, weather lovely. Watch it be freak weather for our races.
Morning all, some great running over the weekend, everybody seems to be on track.
The year hand on my body clock ticked over to 59 yesterday, celebrated with a 14 miler. So misty out there but enjoyed the run and kept paces pretty much on track throughout, perhaps a bit too fast on the last couple before home. 40 mile week and felt fine.
The only nagging doubt I have about the programme is that for previous marathons I have run a couple of the longer runs at MP, and this seems to be discouraged by P&D, I guess it is about confidence in the programme as much as in yourself.
Does anybody else run a couple of the 20 milers at their MP?