The Middle Ground

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  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    DT - it is tempo as defined in the Jack Daniels book. I think probably closest to threshold pace (but I may have slipped back to HMP in the first mile). He describes it as a 'comfortably hard' pace, which sounds about accurate for how it felt - I was able to still be hitting the paces at the end and probably could have gone further, but it did feel quite hard too.

    Probably sensible not to push the reps session too hard tonight with the weekend in mind. Out of interest, how much warm up and down do you do for those sessions? I tend to just do a mile of each whenever I do a tempo or intervals session, and wonder if I would benefit from more (especially in the warm up).

    My plan says 4.5 miles easy paced (c.9m/m) this evening.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    I have a set course I use for tempos which is 1.55 miles from home so that is my wu and cd.

    With respect shorter intervals I am usually shoe horning these into my lunchbreak so it is a 10 min wu with intensity increasing from 9mm through to 6mm in last minute. Today I am doing it in the evening so will more likely spread my wu over 20 minutes. When I do a short warm up, I often find the first rep is harder than the next few.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    So strange how different runs can feel, Thursday's easy paced run felt a bit lumpy in terms of effort (particularly mile 4) after a disrupted night's sleep. Friday's session, which was intervals at 5k pace, felt really good.

    So, the session was a mile warm up then intervals of 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 mins at 5k pace (7.00 m/m) off equivalent jogged recoveries. Then a little warm down bringing the whole session to 5 miles.

    Rest day today.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes, that's the body for you, Andrew. Not everyday can be a winner. Good session though.

    Droitwich half today. Conditions poor for racing and I wasn't hugely confident on fitness. Plus it was a tough hilly course anyway.

    I was gutted to turn up and see 4 clubmates all faster than me. Being county champs, first 3 count for team award. I managed to pull one back at mile 1 and we worked together until about mile 6. From about mile 3 another clubmate was about 200m in distance but he was coming back to us already. I smelt an opportunity and left my one clubmate at 6 then took the other on the peak of a climb which he was struggling on and put an acceleration in off the hill to drop him. By now I'd ditched all the guys I spoke to on start like who were going for sub 85. I ended up 1.26.33 for 12th place and 3rd from club (much to everyone's surprise) for county team gold. 

    There was about 485 foot of climbing and I've run faster with similar elevation but it was the make up of the course. The other courses I've managed in have normally had loads of climbing in first 7 then a vast amount of downhill for 6 miles. This was constantly climbs right the way  through but not vast climbs just persistent.

    Given course and conditions, and how I've been feeling and some faces I beat, I'm happy with that. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Well done DT! If you are happy then we are happy! I think your last line is a good summary!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Great work DT and so glad you are happy :)
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Great stuff DT! 

    5.5 miles here today, to get to 20 for the week. Same again planned for next two weeks.

  • Andrew great mileage well done :)

    I had a awful run yesterday was to be 14 ended with 8 miles but finished the week on 58 miles so happy with that.
    I have a half next Sunday :s
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, it gives me a real boost that I can get something out of London this year.

    That's about 10 seconds faster than my last half before London last year which was a rather flat Cardiff. My main pleasure was beating some decent local and clubmate runners.

    well done Andrew. I think if you can get to 25 consistently you'll make some good gains.

    Hard luck on the run WP, it could have been worse.....it could have been next weekend. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Thanks DT - 25 a week is my target, but I'm going to be cautious in getting there so will spend a few weeks around the 20 mark first, as it seems to be a level at which I can improve but not risk overdoing it or taking too much time out of my family/work schedule.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Still feeling a little achey from Sunday. Did spin last night at reduced intensity. Need to get back on the running though as I plan 4 big training weeks now. I'll start with 10 miles easy today and hopefully that'll clear the legs of the aches to get some sessions in. 
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    WP - those doubles will do you good!

    Andrew - nice "progressive" tempo session. That parkrun time was me going hard but my legs were pretty mashed, so I'd say 15-20 s/mi down on a properly tapered/fuelled race.

    DT - How was Sunday's race? Hope the 4x1200m didn't take too much out of you.

    Last week was 2 days bike commuting, 2 days run commuting, a 20:32 parkrun and another 20 mile long run @ 8:36/mi. Average 46 miles per week over the past 3 weeks but will probably cut back a bit over the next 2 weeks as I juggle various commitments ... bonus is that this should help me prepare for the Bradford 10K in 2 weeks times.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Legs were fine in that respect, it was just the constant climbing into the wind that did for me. Plus at about 10 miles I became isolated and had nothing more to push on for. Nobody behind was close enough to catch me, no one ahead was catchable and nothing close to a pb was on, When you're tired it is very difficult to force it in those circumstances.

    Your mileage is pretty similar to what mine has been last few weeks. I am hoping to peak with a couple of 50 mile weeks very soon.

  • Sunday 4 miles
    Monday 10+4
    Tuesday 10+4
    Wednesday 4+4 later I am tired today quads and arms achy so easing back for Sunday:-)
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • Dr Dan : I lost 2lb this week I think the doubles has helped and I am really enjoying them whilst I can I will run them week days unless family need me  etc.
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    For some reason I had not read any posts on page 955 until today ... which is why my last post appears a bit out of place (e.g. asking DT how his race went). :/
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Hadd subLT today. Went off too hard but rescued it in the end. 10.7 miles with 8.3 "work" (8 identical laps). Ended up as 7:24/m for 81% maxHR.

     Lap, PACE HR (bpm)
    1,   7:02 143
    2,   6:58 152
    3,   7:30 147
    4,   7:35 146
    5,   7:32 146
    6,   7:28 147
    7,   7:33 148
    8,   7:32 148

    And another 10+ on the bike ... cycle home was a killer straight after the run.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    A light interval session last night, covering 4.5 miles including warm up and down. Intervals themselves covered about a mile at tempo and 3/4 of a mile at 3k pace. I'm very aware that these interval sessions are very lightweight at the moment, but am trying to introduce harder faster sessions slowly at the moment.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good session, Dr Dan. I did find your question slightly odd, but that explains it.

    No rush with faster stuff, Andrew. It has to be developed slowly.

    Did an interval session last night of 1 x 2k and 3 x 1k. It was the first one of these types of sessions I felt I properly nailed since December.

    Today, I have half days holiday so off to run a 20. Couldn't have asked for better conditions.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    My thoughts exactly DT - I find the Daniels interval sessions quite hard work, so for this training block (up to my 10k on 2 April) I have just been doing some lighter interval-type work which I picked up from a RW article a couple of months ago.

    Your intervals session sounds good.

    Blimey Dan, you did overcook those first 2 laps! Looks like a good session overall though!

    WP - remind us what you have on Sunday? (A race I presume?)

  • Andrew
    Yes a half marathon on Sunday 9am start and local-Yay
    4 miles this morning and 4 later then 4 tomorrow and 3 on Saturday. This will be a the first race of the season and first with doubles so a learning curve.
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017

    Well, hope all goes well WP.

    4.5 easy miles yesterday, and tonight is scheduled as 5 miles with 3 at 'tempo'. Hoping to make the 3 miles a bit more consistent than last week when really I ran HMP, Tempo, 5mile pace.

    Rest day tomorrow and rounding the week off with a planned 6 miler on Sunday.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    DT - hope the 20 went well.

    WP - good luck with the race!

    Andrew- good luck with the tempo.

    All I had managed this working week was the 10 mile Hadd session as my wife is recovering from surgery. So I took advantage of the rested legs, took on some carbs yesterday, and then went for it at parkrun. Ended up with 20:03 ... went to the well but lost time on the last lap due to traffic (record numbers as Leeds celebrated its 500th parkrun) and missed submit 20. But good run nevertheless.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
      submit = sub... 
  • Thanks Andrew and Dan:-)
    Dan well done on parkrun sub 20 is yours next time:-) Hope wife is doing okay after surgery?
    Kit laid out back packed just may post run sandwich to make in the morning and that just leaves Rocky for tonight :)
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Well done Dan...and go well tomorrow, WP! Llanelli?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Yes Ale Llanelli <3
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Tempo was good thanks, much more consistent than last week! 

    Going to to have to dodge the rain showers tomorrow to get my 6 miler in.
  • I know what you mean Andrew  Rain for us 9-11am guess when race starts yep 9am!
    ALF: Always a little further
    Miles makes smiles.
    Progression
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good luck, WP.

    Well done on the parkrun, Dr Dan. It's just a matter of time for that sub 20. 

    10 miles later at MP. 
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