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  • FerrousFerret wrote (see)

    A lot of the lead time and centralised distribution related stuff is down to the fact that LG is outside the EU.  I would imagine any other non-EU kit supplier will have similar 'rules'.

    I'm still battling with the Cuore website, so I haven't exactly found what the kit options are, however wearing my Tri officials hat- if tops are zipped it would be preferable if the zip were at the back.  

     

    may I slightly disagree with my co-official?  front zipped kit is still fine to use under BTF rules but should remain done up at all times, hence the preference for rear zips to avoid being penalised. (if you race for age group GB, all their kit is rear zipped to comply with ITU rules).   in reality, more flexibility will be given to those doing middle and long distance events so front zips can be undone (especially when hot and humid) although they should be zipped up around transition and finishing line.

  • so posting and package will be the same as before.one postage and packed to get to this country and then we would all have to pay extra postage and package to the organiser to post it out to us individually....and so we would still need someone to coordinate all the deliveries and posting...

     

  • seren nos wrote (see)

    so posting and package will be the same as before.one postage and packed to get to this country and then we would all have to pay extra postage and package to the organiser to post it out to us individually....and so we would still need someone to coordinate all the deliveries and posting...

     

    No, sorry if I didn't make that clear in the initial post. We had a bulk delivery posted to us because we wanted it done that way. With the Team Shop option orders are processed and delivered individually to the address that is given by each person ordering their own kit.

    Cuore produce all the jerseys for Strava and ship them individually so are used to this process.

  • May be a comparative exercise would be to transpose the current LG orders and put them against Cuore ..

  • It seems to me that once we understand the machinations of how to work with this supplier, this could be a goer. Hopefully it shouldn't be too difficult to set up with Richard's help. It resolves the issues of long zips, short zips, men's cut, women's cut and style of gillet in one hit. Plus it overcomes some of the onerous task of being the kit organiser. Nice find Pirates.
  • Sweet. Hopefully this pans out, I like the look of the Tri suit
  • The first post reads of kit Nirvana, the more ive read the thread the less clear I am.  The claims of LG having a long drawn out process and the days of minimum orders going seem to have unravelled already.

    Q1 – What are the comparable prices (inc p&p) for 12 pieces of Cuore kit delivered to individuals doors (did I read correctly that Tri shorts are about £60 + P&P, LG are £30 in P&P).

    Monoco  - Cuore price?
    Tri shorts - Cuore price?
    Tri suit  - Cuore price?
    Gilet  - Cuore price?
    Cycle Jersey  - Cuore price?

    Q2 – Is the ‘real world’ delivery time 6 weeks (indicated by RichM) or quicker  - LG is 6 weeks so if we’re looking to resolve the “long drawn out process” of LG, Curve do not resolve this. 

    Q3 – Can we really order single items/limited amounts as and when required without the cost being prohibitive.   It would seem not, so the days of minimum orders are not changing and is the same as LG who recommend 12 as an effective unit price point.  As with LG order frequency/price would be constrained by demand?

    Q4 – Can you have the custom kit options/different zip lengths considered a single item order or would multiple options be considered different items?

    Q5 –What is the Cuore ‘Performance’ tri kit fit/cut like for average athletes, apparently its ‘high end’ which to me implies it’ll be a great fit/cut if you’re at the sharp end.   Having tried on some Rapha & Assos items, I know some high end kit doesn’t fit me.  LG fit isn’t perfect for everyone, will Curve resolve this?

    Q6 – ‘works best with a limited window’ – how is this different to LG

    Q7 – What is the comparable sizing, have we trailed any samples, how do we get round that people will be buying blind on a leap of faith re size?

    Q8 – How do you know what price you will be paying when you place your order?  Are prices going to be continually changing from one order to the next.  LG prices are stable and competitive.

    Q9 – What recommendations/testimonials are there from groups that are not a vested interest?  Having done a bit of web search I can find much information about Cuore, looks like they are a brand new business.  I recognise RichM has acknowledged the website is 95% complete the ‘beta’ (testing) version doesn’t inspire confidence, RichM also admits he’s got a poor track record of selecting good suppliers (whilst contradicting our experience with LG), are we to believe Cuore is different, if the websites not right, what about supply chain, logistics, scaleability are these also in beta testing?

    Q10 – Does this solve a perceived problem the kit fairy has, has anyone asked if there is a problem? 


    I was going to add ‘if its not broke don’t fix it’, does this solve a problem that’s not there etc, yet looking at it, it doesn’t solve anything and pretty much mirrors the LG process we currently have in place.

    Find it a bit strange that we’re proposing Cuore but they don’t seem to solve the two main two perceived problems quoted (‘long drawn out process’ and ‘minimum orders’).  What are the benefits Cuore offer over and above other suppliers or that outweigh the 12 year successful arrangements with LG? 

    Last time we changed supplier for one order (on not much more than a whim) it was a disaster.  This probably makes me a little less pragmatic

  • Good points Barlos, I'll let Rich answer as he is likely to know slightly more 

    To my mind it is the rigidity of the LG process, receipt, dispatch and the labour intensive process ... being non EU as previously mentioned is not going to help


  • To my mind it is the rigidity of the LG process, receipt, dispatch and the labour intensive process ... being non EU as previously mentioned is not going to help

    I could be a pedant and say that Switzerland is not a EU member, but I won't.  image

  •  

    M...eldy wrote (see)

     

    Good points Barlos, I'll let Rich answer as he is likely to know slightly more 

    To my mind it is the rigidity of the LG process, receipt, dispatch and the labour intensive process ... being non EU as previously mentioned is not going to help


    What is rigid about the LG process that you don’t like (how is it affecting you)?  Your key concerns seem to be 'long drawn out process’, 'minimum orders' yet youve proposed a supplier that doesn’t seem to address them?

    My questions were for you, you’ve been to the tri show and come to present a new supplier?

     

  • Bouncing Barlist wrote (see)

    Q8 – How do you know what price you will be paying when you place your order?  Are prices going to be continually changing from one order to the next.  LG prices are stable and competitive.

     

     

    Since I make a great deal of my living importing things, I kind of want to comment on this. Yes, from what I understand having read Rich's posts, prices will fluctuate a little from order to order, depending on how many people order a certain item. Isnt this is also what happens currently with LG - the more of an order you get, the cheaper the item price? As he explained though, there is also the option of setting the price at a particular point and weathering the fluctuations in order sizes by carrying forward the balance, and using it to offset a future, slightly smaller order.

    Additionally, and more importantly, the U.K. pound is currently weakening significantly against the dollar. The LG order currently on the table will be a lot more expensive than the previous one - yes, LGs prices might be relatively stable, but with a volatile exchange rate, the price to us of buying LG kit is anything but. At the moment you have no idea how much the LG kit will cost in the current order, because it's getting more expensive every day and you're a fair way off placing the order.

    This will always be a problem for you when buying in another currency. For a couple of years, its been extremely profitable to buy from the US. Right now, it is much less so. The euro is also strengthening against the pound, but the relationship is less volatile.

    To conclude a slightly boring post, I'm not using this to argue one way or another, I'm just saying you can't say that buying from LG gives you stable prices because it absolutely does not.

    The more relevant question to Rich would be: What currency would an order be placed in?

    Hopefully the answer is sterling - with Cuore then weathering any exchange rate fluctuations themselves.

  • Oh, quote fail. I'm such an amateur.

  • so to avoid the £100 price of a pair of shorts we will have to hit a minimum order of at least 12.

    As we struggle to get minimum orders nowadays once a year....by going 4 times a year with this supplier the cost will be probably double what we are paying now...

     Maybe its time to see how much the cost is with LG for the smaller amounts

     As Barley stated its the same lead time as LG....the long time in ordering is on our side as because we are only ordering once a year we are trying to get everyone in and trying to hit minimums otherwise the cost goes up for all.....same as with curore...

     as you remember when i wanted an emergency order for a date I needed the kit is was a much quicker process as i wasnt giving people a chance to save up or think about it...

     

     I will be honest the big problem for me is the high cost in comparison and the fact that we will not know the actual cost until the order is placed........( plus the sizing is totally new again)....

    But I can always sew up my old kit for another season  image

  • Barlos I didn't go to the Tri show ..

  • ignore this post... struggling with this message board!
  • Bouncing Barlist wrote (see)

    The first post reads of kit Nirvana, the more ive read the thread the less clear I am.  The claims of LG having a long drawn out process and the days of minimum orders going seem to have unravelled already.

    Hi Carl - your points are good and i'll do my best to address them.

    1. Hard for me to answer as I do not know the LG prices. Also, Cuore cycling kit is available in four different levels of quality, so pricing comparisons will be complicated. As I mentioned in an earlier post, at the moment the tri kit tends to be only available at the higher quality (more expensive) levels but I am pushing for them to add a 'bronze' line and it sounds as if this will be in place very soon. In the meantime, I can provide a spreadsheet of Cuore current pricing to anyone that needs it and I agree absolutely that it would be sensible to compare prices of both companies.

    To give you an idea though, Cuore produce a Finishers S/S cycling jersey for £32.50 up to a Gold S/S cycling jersey for £83, based on 10 orders - and several price levels in between.

    2. 6 weeks is the maximum delivery time and Cuore absolutely make it their mission to deliver early and never late. In addition, they are very responsive at the front end of the process and once the order window shuts the six weeks begins ticking - I believe, but I could be wrong, that with LG there is still a fair amount of work from the end of the ordering phase until the order is signed off and in production. I may be misunderstanding this. Either way, my experience with other suppliers is that 6 weeks very often becomes 8-12 weeks, and it is a recurring theme in conversations with potential customers but if your experience with LG is different then happy days all round.

    3. Your point is a good one. There are no minimum orders but in practice if budget is a limiter then you need to order in quantity before the price becomes realistic.

    4. The quantities for pricing purposes are based on the actual base item and includes men/women. So if 20 men and 15 women order tri shorts then the whole order is produced at the 35 piece price. If individuals then want to specify longer legs or a different zip, that is an added extra to their particular order. For instance to upgrade to an auto lock zip on a bronze bike jersey it would cost the individual an extra 60p.

    5. As mentioned already - the current tri kit range is a more performance cut but I am pushing for them to offer a 'bronze' range that will be a more relaxed cut. They did used to offer that but felt the tri market to be more of a performance market so moved that way. With the cycling kit you have every eventuality covered from pro spray on fit at the Gold end, to relaxed fit at the Finishers end.

    6. 'works best with a limited window' was a comment in relation to the online Team Shop facility that Cuore offer, with items being dispatched to individuals. To my knowledge LG do not offer this functionality. If the order is a bulk order with delivery to one address then that is not an issue, just collate the order, send the information and 6 weeks later the kit arrives.

    7. Absolutely, I can arrange delivery of samples to whoever is in charge of the ordering process, Cuore would not accept an order of this scale without the sizing having been checked in advance.

    8. As I mentioned in a previous post, if you decide to go for the Team Shop option (which is not the only option) then the kit manager in consultation with Cuore sets the price in advance based on projected quantities. If you do a simple bulk order as with LG then, of course, the prices remain predictab

  • Seems like there is a limit on words in a single message, so continued here...

    8. As I mentioned in a previous post, if you decide to go for the Team Shop option (which is not the only option) then the kit manager in consultation with Cuore sets the price in advance based on projected quantities. If you do a simple bulk order as with LG then, of course, the prices remain predictable and stable based on the number of pre orders.

    9. Absolutely right, I do have a vested interest but at the same time I am trying to help. I was approached by a couple of Pirates at the Tri Show who felt the current kit was below par for their needs and that is how this process begun. It would be far easier for me to step back and let you debate these questions internally without getting involved and just wait for a potential order to arrive or not. However, with any threads of this nature there are misunderstandings and before long those become misinformation. An example of this is your website comment. The current Cuore website is shocking and they recognise this. The new website, which I have seen, is very close to launch and is a complete new build and bears no resemblance at all to the current one.

    I had a good chuckle at the 'poor track record' comment. Busted, no arguments there. All I can do is relay my experience with Cuore was outstanding and then let you decide if you believe me or if it is me trying desperately to generate a bit of commission. I did wonder if our experience was a lucky one but having visited their HQ they are absolutely committed to improving the service levels of this sector that are traditionally under delivered. The company has been established for several years, owns its own factory, manufactures for several other recognised brands under white label agreements, supplies kit to two pro tour cycling teams and has a very large footprint in the US, Australia and continental Europe. However, you are correct, they are a new brand to the UK.

    10. Obviously, I can't answer that, but from several replies here it would seem that at least the quality/functionality of the current kit is not as good as some would like.

    Just one other point to answer Fat Buddha's pedancy, whilst the brand is Cuore of Switzerland, orders are fulfilled through their main office in Germany so any transactions are within the EU.

    My inclination is to step back now from discussions otherwise I feel my vested interest will always cloud what I say with suspicion. However, I am also happy to help answer any questions you may have so will check back in from time to time.

     

  • I can answer some of the questions about the type and quality of kit, just at work so give me a few hours and I'll let you know what I've seen
  • M...eldy wrote (see)

    Barlos I didn't go to the Tri show ..

    Meldy – But you are the one to start the thread and should therefore be prepared to answer any questions that may arise instead of passing back to RichM who has admitted he has a vested interest.

    You have proposed a change to supplier, but by only suggesting one potential alternative you have not really provided a balanced and subjective proposal.  What other options/suppliers have you looked into? 

    At the moment, it looks like there is only one name in the hat ie Cuore.  In order to make this a truly open case for ‘discussion and consideration’, I feel you and those who attended the Tri Show should be looking at alternative suppliers too and posting the benefits, or otherwise, of placing future orders with them

  • flat footed.out of interest is the kit you have seen the top of the range one that they are at the moment stocking in tri.....or the cheaper bronze range that they are trying to set up

     

     

  • Of course he has a vested interest he is the supplier

    He is best placed to answer the questions and I do not propose to do that for him.  I did not attend the Tri Show (as previously stated), I am putting this forward for consideration as the LG process is trying at best.  Absolutely there should be more options to explore alongside Cuore and LG, its good to have comparisons and any one who has the time can feel free to 'pitch',    Looking at options should be a continual process.

    For now we have the two choices.

  • One of the problems we now have is that the kit order has been stopped...i cant understand why as this thread and discussion was one which obviously needs some time to get right?

    In fact it supports the change to a process like the one being discussed above where the main advantage would seem to be that although we would need minimum orders - say 12- to make an item cost effective and the time to get it would be similar - say 6 weeks- at least we could all make an order and then wait for the hopeful minimum to be reached and then have the item posted out directly to us by the supplier.

    The kit 'fairies' over the years have done a fantastic job - I think it was Lindi before Schmunks - however an 'automated' system would surely be an advantage and allow orders to keep rolling?

  • Would it not be useful as there is a discussion happening around alternate kit suppliers to look into some local (UK) alternatives?

    I have no vested interest, but have heard good reports about Raceskin https://www.raceskin.co.uk/ - but I have no idea about pricing.

    Another brand that I hear mentioned a lot is Imp Sports http://www.impsport.com/custom/

    Apologies if they have been mentioned before.

  • Its easy to stay with LG because its hard work to look for alternatives ... please feel free to explore the others

    We are likely to use Impsports at work as they offer what we need but do not have the high end spec that Cuore have IMO

  • BYF - are you offering to contact them?
  • It seems strange that we are considering this now as there were numerous comments about the timing of the current order and it not being able to deliver kit in time for this season for this season. Now we are introducing another possible major delay? Having tried to get a round of drinks with half a dozen Pirates, I know what our ability to agree on anything is!

    Whilst there may or may not be benefits of changing supplier, I can't see this being achieved in the next couple of weeks unless a hasty unilateral decision is made by someone, which may well result in a reduction service.

    It is with re-opening the 'shop' again, which we know works and then exploring other options in more detail for another order later in the year?

    Just a suggestion ....... crawls off to count his Pirate tops .........

  • does it need a unilateral decision or a few people to make a manageable order through a new supplier to give it a test run

    I think Flyaway had a good thought with regards the exchange rate in the US, that has always presented issues with pricing, fair enough the euro can change as well

    It would be wrong of us not to consider changes at any given point

  • Schmunkee said that there are insufficient numbers for an LG order, so arguing about whether the book should stay open or closed doesn't really matter.  At present there is no viable order anyway.

  • I think a few people making a 'test order' would be a good idea, but that doesn't seem to come across as the proposal.

    But if that is a suggestion, I would be happy to be a guinea pig on a couple of items .....just trying to be helpful and in no way a kit whore ...

  • Also, as Rich pointed out, the lead time for LG is longer than 6 weeks in reality because of the faff with agreeing the contract and the extra import time. Add on the time it takes to distribute the kit once it arrives and you're comparing a guaranteed 6 weeks or less to your doormat with 6-9 weeks or more. 

    If it affected me though, quality would be the big push. The LG stuff is mediocre IMO. The price matches that. The fact that if you're willing to pay more for a higher quality item counts towards the same order total as someone buying the same item on more of a budget would be a significant plus point.

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