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OlympicNick
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in Clubhouse
Was about to enter the Great South Run until I saw the price, £40 for a 10 mile race ! Is it just me or are some races just not offering us runners value for money ?
Do you have a limit that you would pay for a 10k, a half etc ?
I am now going to support some of the lesser supported races which offer better value !
FH
Do you have a limit that you would pay for a 10k, a half etc ?
I am now going to support some of the lesser supported races which offer better value !
FH
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Comments
I'd agree, some races seem stupidly expensive. We've got a firm locally who charge large amounts for mediocre races, and I simply don't bother entering them. Which is a shame, as they're in a great country park that I already train through.
Thinking about it, longer races seem to offer a better £/mile ratio than shorter ones.
But everyone will have their own line and for some races may well make an exception.
It's a simple case of supply and demand. I think that if there was a particular iconic event I wanted to do I WOULD pay for it but then most of the events I like to do are in remote corners of the country organised by small local clubs or the LDWA who don't charge huge entry fees or fell races which generally cost between £3 - £7. Once you get a business running events they have to charge to cover their overheads I suppose. Mind you, I think some of them are worth it - the Lakeland Trails Series I think are expensive but are extremely well run and well over suscribed. I don't do them but have seen the organisation and been to the events to watch and have been impressed by the whole thing. It's not my cup of tea but I can understand why people would come and pay to take part.
The Great South does cost the organisers more than some smaller races due to the size, For example they have full road closures for most of the day, which means that they have to pay for police cover and for the council to put the railings up. They have tow trucks for people who haven't obeyed the parking restrictions and who are parked on the race course. They have to pay for the use of the common and for litter collection.
However, they also make a huge profit from it and I believe (having volunteered for them a few times) that there are lots of places where money can be saved.
Personally I think a good rule of thumb is to pay around £1 per mile. Races of 10k and under might be a little more expensive than that (maybe £1 per k) as there are some costs that are basic to holding any race and do not mutiply up with the miles.
Or even better, enter a free race. In my area there is a series of free events. OK you don't get a medal for them but they still provide the competitive atmosphere if that is what you are after. And there are sandwiches and cake afterwards for only £1.
I am planning on running the Lakeland Trail Marathon next year, it looked very good value and the reports on here echoed that. Running around Lake Coniston will be wicked !
This is a little over the £1 per mile SuperCaz but you do get a medal and a running shirt !!
FH
They are using volunteers, and making a huge profit? Perhaps they should be paying the volunteers?
Personally, I wouldn't pay £40 for a race.
There are plenty which are a lot less - my local half marathon is £20 (and oversubscribed).
I don't do the type of "events" which are run by businesses.
The Runners' World Trailblazer series is £20 to enter - and those are 10k races.
The Newport City not-quite-a-Marathon was almost £30, as was the rather crappy Cheltenham Half Marathon.
Find local club races. Evesham 10k (a lovely run) is £10/12, and the CLC Striders Runway 10k is a tenner.
If people continue to pay higher prices, organisers will continue to charge them. Simple economics, Shirley?
Read this.
The LM is a registered charity - it generates millions every year - anyone who can do that will get rewarded. Full time charity workers don't work for free after all ?
And one of the guys dissing the LM was the guy behind the London 10k !
If he's one of your witnesses you know you've not got the strongest argument in the world ?
LM should be more transparent in where the money goes, and that's why they appear to be dodgy.
Despatches already had to pay damages to Bedford already - and that documentary really didn't say anything other than they're not giving full information. Which to be honest I don't think I'd do unless I had to. It was a complete non-story. A bit like the program they had on drug taking footballers.
Vote with your feet and dont do it only 10 percent of money raised by entry fees go to charity. Charities a one of the biggest cons today as you have 90 percent of people giving there time for free and 10 percent on wages and some of those wages are not small amounts.
Races cost to put on.
There's quite a history of slagging off the VLM/FLM by the guy that runs the London 10k (if it's the same guy I'm thinking of), but that's a whole can of worms I don't have time to get into.
I'm kind of with Caz on the £1 per mile very rough estimate being good value, although I will "round up" for a good event, and I'd probably pay a little more for a race that didn't cost me a lot to travel to - for instance I'm planning doing the River Ness 10k again next year, which at £23 is a lot for 6 miles, but it starts 2 miles from home, you do get a fab medal and goody bag and free food afterwards, and it's downhill most of the way..................
I notice that the Loch Ness Marathon has increased to £42 for next year, but (were I likely to be fit enough) I'd pay that on the same basis as for the 10k, and because I know that they do have unusual overheads like the fleet of buses to take the runners to the start of the point to point course.
For a low key event, £12 for a 10k, £20 for a half and £30 for a marathon to me seems decent value - anything less is great, anything more and I'd be looking for "added value" to entice me to enter.
How much is VLM to enter these days anyway? I haven't entered for a few years, so am a bit out of touch, but from memory it wasn't drastically more expensive than any other. Despite what Michael O'Rielly would have you believe.
I don't think people really appreciate the costs involved in putting on races these days. We had to move our race to another venue when the costs of closing 50 yards of road for 10 minutes at the start got to over £600, and they were starting to talk about us needing to bring in safety barriers etc, and that was about 8 years ago. Now the costs would be even higher, assuming you could even get the council to agree to you holding an event. Councils actually seem far happier these days dealing with commercial race companies, probably because of the risk-averse attitude that exists, and they seem to automatically assume that commercial companies are more professional and safer to deal with than a bunch of volunteers. I think a lot of it is because they assume it’ll be easier to blame a company if someone screws up. The bureaucracy they make volunteer organisations deal with acts as a huge barrier.
In the meantime, venues that can hold races have hugely increased their costs. The venue we moved to now costs approaching 4 times what it cost when we first used it, and because we only want it for a morning we have moved way down the pecking order compared to commercial companies who’ll hire it for a day or a whole weekend. We’re actually the only non-commercial race put on at the venue these days, and how long this will continue I’m not sure – we’re already struggling to get a date next year. When the venue cost and the chip timing costs (which runners now expect) add up to the best part of £7 per runner before you even start you also have to consider a fundamental change in approach. This I think is one of the reasons for the surge in the number of trail & off-road races being organised these days.
Now think of a big event like the Great South Run and the costs involved. Quite apart from closing down the centre of a large town for a day, there’s the costs of 100’s of staff, a tented city, miles of barriers, car parking and traffic management, police, medical staff, transportation, drinks, web sites, insurance, advertising etc etc. Yes, the organisers will be making a profit but there’s nothing wrong with that as it’s their reward for making the Great Runs what they are, but to expect to be able to enter those races for the same price as your local 10k is unreasonable.Having said that, it does highlight the exceptional value for money that the London Marathon provides, but of course that operates on an entirely different model.
Hehe - just looked at the website for the "British 10k" (which I'm assuming is the one Cougie is referring to, and is the one I was referring to above) is charging £50 (!!!!) for a guaranteed entry. And this is the guy who slags off VLM for being expensive and uncharitable.
I must get out of this thread. I spent ages on the same subject a few years ago when the British 10k started up.
Just two small points though:
Gone are the days when races were only run by clubs, were very cheap, and were manned by volunteers. Most of the big ones are run by companies, and they can actually charge what they like, and make as much profit as they like - that's life. Market forces will tell them when they are charging too much, as people will stop entering. It doesn't matter a jot what the costs are, or what people think they should charge, it's just a business.
VLM as a charity is monitored by the Charities Commission, which will have access to more information than just the Companies House info that the Dispatched programme refer to. If they see any apparent wrongdoing, they can intervene, and I'm sure we'd have heard if there was any investigation. There are no specifc regulations as to what % of income a charity must use for "good causes" but there are regulations on what it can spend money on. You could argue that a charity that sells Christmas Cards only uses 10% of the money you pay for the cards for its cause, but if the cards cost them 85% and they spend 5% on renting a stall to sell them, then actually all of the "profit" goes to the cause..
Back to the original thought - re the cost of races or events.
I don't like paying out too much for races. That's my choice. I tend to steer clear of anything I consider to expensive and stick to smaller cheaper races.
I have run some very shoddy events that have not been cheep, nor expensive but for what I got in terms of a race - pants.
Now having been party to organising an event and having listened to comments from runners of all abilities I can see how expense mouts up. The need for parking,baggage starage, toilets, water, first aid points. Even the cheap events are struggling and starting to think that they need to charge more. The cost for the venue for our race has more than doubled in the past 3 years.
Runners are demanding more, event organisors are providing. It all costs. We are the ones that have to pay as we are the ones benefiting from it all.
I wasn't intending to make any other point about the VLM save that for the non charity runner that at under £30 it is very good value for money. As it is a point to point, rather than a circular the baggage transfer is quite expensive to organise, also I've not done any other event that allows you free access to public transport on day of event.
I agree about the British 10k though, biggest unfunny joke of a race going.
It's still possible to find races that are organised by clubs or other not-for-profit organisations.
A few well-organised local ones to me are:
A 10k organised by the PTA of a school. Local businessed sponsor the event. Entry is £13, which seems a bit steep but It's a a good race and there's a village fete at the same time.
A half mara organised by the Rotary club, again sponsored by local businesses, with money raised going to charity. £20 to enter.
A 10k organised by a running club - £9 entry.
A 15 miler organised by another running club - £15.
10 miler organised by a local hospice, who also organised a successful triathlon recently.
5k organised by a different hospice.
That's within a radius of about 6 miles, and there are others. There's a series of races on summer evenings (and Boxing day) which are a quid to enter.
I think local, volunteer-organised races are alive and well, and should be supported.
Definitely, if they are available. Local to me, unfortunately, there are less and less of them because as demand increases for the few there are, the organisers find it gets too much, and they hand it over to a dedicated events organisation.
But we do have a new Parkrun now, and as soon as I am able, I'll be taking part in those.
I was thinking of this last week whilst watching the Great South on TV, I think it's a fantastic race to run, flat and fast (depending upon the wind!). However I've now not run it in over 10 yrs, it was starting to get busier then and if I remember correctly the price had almost doubled from about £8 to £15 or something similar.
I personally think the VLM is great value at £28 for a standard race entry for what you get and what is put on.
I help organise a small scale marathon / 1/2marathon for a charity and we charge £20 for it. It's point to point so this includes transport to the start, 3 drinks / food stations (can't beat a hot dog at 13 miles into a marathon) and plenty of tea and cake at the finish. Finishers also get a technical t-shirt.
We rely on volunteers to help out but still manage to make some money out of the race in addition to any sponsorship that people raise.
That what I do we raise money for the local schools / scout groups and we run them from villages that a realy finding it hard where the little shops and pubs are near closer so they love events and the money the runners bring.
Jesus I thought the Great Manchester 10k was dear at £37...the British 10k price is a fcuking joke..absolutely scandalous.
Isn't that the one where you don't actually get a time?
It was - not sure if they've sorted that out now. In the first few races, only the first 200 times were recorded.
It was also one where a friend of mine never got her race pack (early years) and couldn't get in touch with the organisers to find out how to resolve it. Considering she was travelling 700 miles to run it, it was a bit of a shambles.
(if so then I see a spectacular business plan emerging)
I'm happy to volunteer to help out with my club's races for free and would do the same for a charitable event, but if they're making a hefty profit then I'd expect payment in some way for my time.
I do wonder if there'd be any mileage ('scuse the pun), now that Parkruns are so commonplace, of having some of them as 10k's?