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Funkin - sounds like a bit of PB work and some structured sets will do you good, I made a big improvement when I realised that I was spending too much time dawdling up and down and instead started doing 15 to 20 x100 with 10 sec rest for a prolonged period. You should be able to swim 15x100 with 10 sec rest averaging the pace that you could swim a 1500m TT in. The 100s are controlled swimming practicing decent technique.
I did 4x400s today alternating PB and non PB (after some 50s w/u) and swam the same pace with and without it. So I have got used to it pretty quick. I think its less tiring with it though as Gary said.
I think I'll include some PB work but also retain some normal swimming work too.
Thanks.
Oh really - a bigger pool boy - guess they are talking about me again!
So shoving a big boy between my legs with benefit my triathlon training will it
+1 thanks buddha, fegan & funkin for some really interesting food for thought
I'm definately in that stereotypical triathlete trap of using the pull bouy as a safety blanket, under the guise of "matching the wetsuit effect" i have become completely depandant on the pull bouy and am utterly terrible without it
My plan for the winter is to completely ignore the pull bouy and attempt to build technique from the base up
I have a copy of total immersion, but may look at finding a swim coach instead
Burn the TI book
if there weren't conficting approaches to training the world would be a dull place!
tbh - at my age I CBA going back to basics and rebuilding any of my techniques so I'll stick with what I know in the pool and just hammer out the sessions with a PB. anyway just staying alive is starting to get hard enough!!
as an interesting session, P used a PB this morning in the pool (she rarely if ever does as she was a competitive swimmer as a kid so has a developed kick). I swear she was quicker with it as I was having to work damn hard to stay with her on some "chase me" sessions where we do put some effort in. only one session - so no great conclusion I guess from that but it did seem to help her.
She used the pump and vass!
Sutto is quite definite on the view that most people don't do enough ow swimming in wetsuit. More ow means less need for a pull buoy.
If a pull bouy helps toward an ow position, I wonder what having a wall to push off every 25m does to the ow position? If you are going to use pull buoys (or inflating body cavities), should you be doing it in as long a pool as possible?
Cheers for the link, its interesting reading. Though I would have to question the logic of getting better in a pool having NO CORRELATION to getting better in open water.. that may well be true for top swimmers but for the vast majority of triathletes I would say that its basic swim technique holding us back.. not open water specifics. This can surely be learned equally well in a pool or open water.. with or without a pull buoy.
I see putting on the wetsuit the same way as putting my race wheels on the bike.. no real need to train with them on, but they make me quicker on race day. For me anyway, I don't see it as 'completely different mechanics'
bos1 - Sutto also says open water is fishes! He wont let his squad train in the OW even if its available.
B_K - Race wheels don't restrict your shoulders or make it harder to turn the pedals. When I put a wetsuit on I notice that stroke rate drops and effort per stroke increases.
Funnily, exactly the same as swimming with paddles or gloves, which is what the majority of my swimming involves too.
Its not who can swim 50m the fastest but who can swim 3.8K without slowing down and expending the least amount of effort.
But I do agree, if you can't swim in a pool, you'll not magically swim brilliantly in OW.
Well I'm pleased I asked the question, some of the advive has been most helpful, so thanks for joining in.
B Kins - I wanted to find out if replicating the position would be worthwhile and get my body used to holding the wetsuit position, esp as I have experienced back ache on the bike in races. My race wheels are on my bike all of the time too.
Yeah its a great thread and very useful to see a bunch of different opinions. Neoprene shorts were mentioned as well.. would they not be much better for replicating wetsuit position? Since you don't have to focus on keeping the buoy between your legs..
aside, i prob would keep my race wheels on the bike but i got tubs and wouldn't know what to do if i punctured
I only have one bike and one set of wheels so its easy to keep the race wheels on all the time ! (apart from my MTB).
That wasn't what he said.
SWIMMING OPEN WATER PEOPLE SWIMMING 1.5, 1.9 OR 3.8 KM HAS NO CORRELATION TO BEING IN A POOL AND IMPROVING YOUR 25 METER TIME
Improving your 3.8km time in a pool maybe, but not your 25m time. Look at the sets he talks about. All big numbers (120 *100), steady pace. Aiming to get quicker at swimming 3.8km rather than quicker over 25/50m.
Many of us could be faster over 25/50m if we learnt to kick better/harder but how would that help in an IM when wearing a wetsuit we elect to rest our legs. Slightly different stroke mechanics and more power required to overcome lack of legs will tire arms quicker than they are used to if you have a strong pool based kick. Suddenly you are overworking the muscles, lactic build up and bam - pace drops or you burn too many matches too early to hit the target swim split.
Specivity of training.
I swim with a masters squad on a Saturday morning and breask, fly, back and free. I am sure I could be a marginally quicker triathlete if I focussed on crawl instead. However I would be a worse swimmer and I am happy to trade a minute or two in an IM against being a better swimmer.
Wetsuit
Note my wesuit has grab panels in the forearms to gain greater water purchase. If I am grabbing more water with each stroke then surely I need more power than usual. Yes I will swim quicker but where does the extra power come from? I may have a lower drag coefficient due to better position and material of suit so it may even up a bit. This could explain a lower stroke count in a wetsuit a the muscles net output may be the same.
I don't know much about swimming but there does seem to be some logic in there.
Me..face