RUNNING A MARATHON 1 MONTH TRAINING

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  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    You were advised to include a little bit of threshold running - this will be quicker then you 'current' half marathon pace if you can do that time today. That should be enough speed for your goal and would also make marathon pace feel easy for the first few miles . Hard intervals will target VO2 improvements, whereas threshold pace will work on your  aerobic / anaerobic threshold. You need to work on this, but surely the number 1 priority is endurance and not getting injured.

    Failing that advise, go and do some reps with the 1500m runner - that should have your marathon pace feeling like a stroll in the park.

  • PhilPub wrote (see)
    Alex Coward 2 wrote (see)

     

    Doesn't it make runing at a lower pace easier though? So I'd be able to do it for longer?

    If you had the luxury of more time to play with - and therefore more time to recover between training sessions - then faster running will help put the "icing on the cake" in terms of improved threshold, aerobic capacity, etc, which are admittedly related to (ideal) marathon fitness.  But by including too much intensity in the (highly compromised, time-restricted) training schedule, you just make the next easy-paced, longer distance training run harder to complete.

    Also if your mate can run a sub-3 marathon without breaking a sweat, he's probably a cyborg.  I can run a bit quicker than that but I sweat like a pig in foil.

    Yep, but then you're a real life human being, whereas, based on the evidence putforward so far, I suspect 'mate' is not!

  • Thanks for this "Speedwork helps you to run faster (obviously). But it is not going to help you get round a 26 mile course when you haven't done the distance training - speedwork means nothing unless you build up the stamina first." 

     

    Doesn't it make runing at a lower pace easier though? So I'd be able to do it for longer?

  • I told you why. Because speedwork:

    means nothing unless you build up the stamina first.

    As Phil and others have explained. 

     

    There's just no shortcut to this sh*t, why won't you accept this from people who know?

     

     

     

     

  • now you're just repeating yourself Alex.

    Troll.

  • Well he has been running since he was 5, born in the uk, sponsored completely for a 4.5 year course by an ivy league in america because of his running, I've never seen him run a marathon, but he said he did one in training once just to see (his schedule was a 19 mile steady state, decided to do another 7 just so he could say he did a marathon).

     

    He estimated he could run a marathon if he trained for 3 months in 2.30 without too much of an issue. But he's not a distance runner so it's not suprising he's going to be a way off normal world athlete pace for that. 

     

    On the speedwork I will see, will try his way and the (runnersworld) threshold way the next time, see what feels better at the time. Thanks for your advice.

  • I am not trolling it's an internet malfunction, I can't be blamed for it. 

     

    Thanks for your advice.

     

     

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Alex, your body can only adapt a finite amount in the time before the marathon.  its ging to be busy enough adapting to staying in motion without the additional burden of running fast at the same time.  In a sensible programme spread over three to four months you would have separate speed and endurance sessions.  You don't have enough time to siginificanlty improve either, so you need to concentrate on improving your endurance.  

    Increasing your VO2 max or lactate threshold via speed sessions will not make it easier to run slower, as your marathon pace needs to at a level well below these thresholds.  Therefore abandoning the speed sessions is the sensible option.

    I can't quote references for this - the info above has been accumulated patiently over several years via many different sources.

    Follow your mate's plan and post your photos on here after you've finished if you like. From my experience I'd expect you to be injured before day 15 as that quantity of training at your current fitness level is likely to break you. This is my opinion, and I don't really care if you listen or not - but you came on here to ask for advice and many people have tried to help you.

     

  • As a seasoned pro, I'm sure your 'mate' will be able to advise you on what gear to wear for the marathon, but in case he's not around, may I suggest this:

    http://webkit-fake-url://460B0C5E-3F0B-441A-87D6-F8B83FA96DD3/application.pdf

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭
    Alex Coward 2 wrote (see)

     

    ... and can run a marathon sub 3 hours without breaking a sweat or training. 

     

     

     

    Sorry, just re-read this and it made me chuckle.

    Your mate has been training all his life, so you have to understand he has a different perspective on what constitutes "training", and what constitutes "easy" and "hard" training. He sounds a fantastic athlete, but he may not appreciate your current level of fitness.

  • plus, since your nameless mate is imaginary, he can do anything. Well that's what my mate Megatron says anyway.

  • He knows me well, I have been running with him a lot over the years, if you guys all think I should exchange the speed work for threshold runs then that's what I will do. 

  • AC2 - I would go back to your mate and point him at this thread and ask him his opinion.

    as stutyr says - he's looking at this from a different perspective if what you say he can do is true.  what he's not doing is applying his knowledge to your situation with an appropriate plan

    and frankly it ain't going to make a huge difference what plan you adopt now as you have so little time so accept that, do whatever trainining you can and go do the marathon and see how you get on

     

  • @fat buddha I will try his schedule (ammended to exchange speeed work for threshold runs), if it's too hard I will back off, get him to look at this thread and get a new plan. 

    How long should the threshold runs be?

     

  • Pudge ... suck my balls ...

     

    thanks a lot to everyone else

     

  • no idea - as I wouldn't bother with your limited time

    personally I'd be looking at doing a run/walk strategy (25min/5min) and get as much endurance into your legs as possible but leave a week for recovery to fresh legs for race day

    don't worry about the marathon time you finish in, look at making a) a finish and b) in the most comfort.  it's gonna hurt - accept that - and try to get the best done.

  • Sound advice from FB.

    I really think you need to ditch your friend's schedule. Ultimately this is about damage limitation.

  • So what should I be doing, beyond eating bacon sandwiches and running in a park? how many times should I run per week?

    How far should long runs be, how long should I run on threshold runs per week.

    How many times should I run per week?

     

  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭

    I honestly think you're asking for injury if you follow your mate's plan.  You need some extra rest days, and you need to completely forget the interval work.

    You asked 'why cut out the speed work'... and you've had answers.  I would put it like this.

    Your muscles need to convert energy in order to make you run.  Very simplistically, your body has 3 types of muscle fibre.   Let's call them 'slow run', fast run and sprint.

    If you do training in the fast run or sprint speeds, then your body will essentially train up those muscles....  the muscles that are designed for a burst of speed to get away from a preditor or something.   There is absolutely no point in you training up those muscle fibres.  You are NOT going to use them.

    You have to concentrate entirely on working on the slow run muscle fibres.   I would say that EVERY mile you run should be at no more than 10.5 minutes per mile - even if this feels terribly slow to you.  If you go faster, you will start to train muscle fibres that will be nearly useless to you in Copenhagen.  Perhaps with once a week having a 4-5 mile run at, say  8.5 minute miles... if nothing else, but for a bit of variety!

     I think you are quite correct to think in terms of minutes on your feet, rather than mileage at this stage.

  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭

    I forgot the other key....  your ligaments and bones are not used to running these distances.  You are in real danger of picking up injuries that will put you out of the race... but if you keep your speeds at 10.5 minutes per mile, you minimise the stresses on them, so maximise your chances.

    Keep yours stride length short... that helps keep the forces on your bones and tendons to be more bearable.

    Get good running shoes.  Properly fitted in a running shop.

  • I LOL'd at Megatron.



    There is a world of difference between a half marathon and a full.

    IF you've trained well then expect double your half time +20 mins.

    That would mean you'd have run 5 or so 20 milers.



    You've not trained well - so I'd think 5 hours is pushing it.



    Where is the thread from the other year about the black belt karate dude coming on here ? He had 6 weeks to train ? What was his time again.



    What time is your mate hoping for - has he trained ? I'd not sacrifice a hard worked for time to slow for a mate who hadn't.

  • Alex Coward 2 wrote (see)

    So what should I be doing, beyond eating bacon sandwiches and running in a park? 

     

    What everyone else said.

    Now, you go get em tiger!

  • He was in the South Korean military...I'm not concerned about him....

     

    He ran a marathon before sub 3. I'll see him at the finish.

  • I'm new to all this, so feel free to ignore. 

    I've been surprised how quickly the body can adapt to running a long way. I started in January having never run more than 4 miles and now fairly confident of completing the marathon next week (although could still go wrong!).

     

    You're not interested in speed. Hopefully your heart and lungs are comfortable running for 4-5 hours, so it's just a matter of training your legs to get that far. Muscles, bones etc. A month is short, but it could be possible if your body and luck are on your side.

    If it was me, I'd ignore any speed work. Long slow runs, increasing the distance each time, but making sure you get some recovery in between and you leave time to be fresh for the day, which is at least a week. 

     

     

  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭

    1.   30   2. 60    3. 60   4.    50   5. Cross Train   6. 90   7. Rest

    8. 30   9. 75    10. 30  11. 65     12. Cross train   13.  130*    14. Rest

    15. 45  16. 60    17. Cross train   18.  40    19.  25+Cross train   20.  180*   21.  Rest

    22.  30+Cross train  23. 60   24. Cross train    25.  60    26.  20   27.  150*   28   Rest

    29.   20     31.   Rest    32.  20   33.  Rest  34.  Rest   35.   25    36.  Rest

     37. 300+* image

    Total disclaimer...  this is off the top of my head, and whatever you do, you are taking quite a risk of injury and a miserable marathon!  But you're clearly going to do it.  You're 21 and hopefully not inactive.  You said you did a 7 mile run 2 weeks ago, so you are nothing like a complete beginner

    I've tried to juggle the needs of building up mileage,  get some rest in there and get you rested for race day (marathon programmes have you tapering off the mileage in the last 3 weeks...  so I've had to be inventive!)

    Cross training is something like gym work lIMO on a rowing machine  - to keep you moving forwards, give you a little 'core strength' but no running -  taking impact off your legs and feet.

    You need to get some work done early, because your body takes time to adapt.  What you do in the last 2-3 weeks is of limited value.

    The programme above is described as minutes on your feet and it should be done at ELEVEN minutes per mile up to day 21,   and  allow yourself to creep up to TEN minutes per mile thereafter. I'd forget the threshold runs. 

    On runs over 80 minutes, use them to get used to taking on water and food - as you will need these on race day.

    On runs marked *  then run for 10 minutes and walk for 1  repeatedly throughout.

    On race day...  I've never run-walked, so others will have to advise.  But a running pace of 11 minutes per mile....  and having a couple of minutes rest at each water station... that might see you just sneak under 5 hours, which would be a remarkable achievement!  Whatever you do, do not go out too fast in the early miles.   If you go above threshold,  working those faster muscle fibres during the race, your energy will be depleted very quickly. The last 8 miles are likely to be very very hard. You MUST keep slow enough throughout.

    Good luck.

  • TheStone wrote (see)

     

    Hopefully your heart and lungs are comfortable running for 4-5 hours.  

     

    They're not, we've already established that. 

  • Not that I think that what the OP is doing is a good way to go to train for your first marrathon but I've got some personal experience here.  I ran my one and only marathon to date in 4h20m on the back of a 6 week timeline, including a weeks rest at the end, so 5 weeks of actual training.  Before I started training I had never ran more than 7 continous miles.  However, I was playing competitive level squash (3-4 times a week plus training), so had a good base of fitness and being able to push my body, but obviously not the experience of time on my feet running (totally different fitness and aches and sprains involved). 

    I managed to get 4 long runs in, did absolutely no speed work or anything other than regular running.  My 4 long runs were 10, 14, 18, 21 - I consciously slowed down for the 14,18 and 21.  Race day was fine up to about mile 22, I struggled over the last 4 miles but just plodded my way through it, was glad to have done it but definitely wouldn't recommend it!!  Have subsequently managed a 1h38 half on the back of 2 and a bit months proper training including a variety of training runs up to 40mpw or so, much prefer this approach oddly enough image 

    Would like to try again and work towards the 1h30 and also have another crack at a marathon and do it right this time...... 

    So in summary it can be done but it's going to hurt, as long as you put all notions of speed out of your head you have a much better chance of getting round.

  • I asked him, this was the conversation:

     

    the days before you have a sesssions you can do 4*45second relaxed fast sprints after your run also make sure you do a 10 mns warm and warm down before each session! I believe in you Alex!    

    I put your schedule on a running forum and they all told me to drop the speed work and focus on longeer runs  

      its too late for longer runs, you would just ruin yourself lol  

      haha ok will do

    the 'speed work' will ironically give you strength!

  • By all means go with the guy who's not run an official marathon in his life.

    Do feel free to ignore us with our 100s of races. It could be that his way is a revolution.



    You will let us know how it goes though ?



    Enjoy your day.
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